fmmobley 0 #1 April 21, 2005 I just finished AFF and have learned a lot. Now I am on my own. I wish there was a set of recommended dive flows, similar to AFF, to move skydivers toward mastery of the sport and completion of A requirements. Anyone ever run across anything like that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #2 April 21, 2005 Team up with a recommended coach. They will be able to help you tremendously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #3 April 21, 2005 What Funks said. Get coached. Too many solos after AFF is the best way to develop very bad habits. I'm still trying to get rid of them... "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #4 April 21, 2005 Skydive U, WARP...ect. Or get a coach. Where do you live? I had a guy from England come visit me. After 15 coach jumps he did his FS1. He needed 4 points, he did 15 points on a 4way with a block move in it. Where you live is a big question that needs to be answered to give the best response"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewGPM 0 #5 April 21, 2005 I agree with everyone else, get coaching. IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. There is a trend toward paid coaching on the DZ. There is still a huge population of fun jumpers who will jump with you for free. If, like most of us, you can't afford to pay for the coach. Go meet the experienced jumpers on the DZ and start doing 2-ways. Someone with 40 jumps might not be your best choice. Make sure an instructor or S&TA approves of your choice. Resist the temptation to get on anything bigger than a 4-way. for a while. On all jumps, use the creeper as part of your dirt dive...it helps a lot! Be geared up on time get a good gear check on the ground. Think about gear safety on the plane, gear checks on the plane, good exit count, stable exit. Once you're in the air, work on eye contact, proximity, heading control and altitude awareness. Those are true on every jump...until the day you stop skydiving! Get into the habit now. These are the jumps I use. With the new ISP, you might have already done some it with your instructors. do them anyway. These are great references, i still do theses drill every once in a while...I'm trying to do them faster and faster. Notice that each works on ONLY one skill. If you feel these are too simple, based on your experience as a student, feel free to skip or combine these drills. I think they came from a guy who learned them from Skydive University. 1. forward and backward movement 2. side movement. left hand open accordian, right hand open accordian. back to left hand. 3. Fall rate control, moving up and down 4. 90 degree center turn, star, side body, star. Do once to left, once to right. 5. 90 degree center turn, half star( you make a half of a 4-way star ), open accordian, half star. fly to other side of partner. half star, open accordian, half star. Fly back to the original point, start over. 6. 180 degree center turn star, side body, side body, star. repeat until break off 7. 360 degree center turn star - 360 - star 8. Outfacing dock. open accordian, stairstep, open acordian 9. Outfacing too. half star, bipole, half star. 10. 180 degree center turn star, cat, star. repeat until break off 11. compressed accordian. star, side slide to open accordian, move forward to compressed accordian, back slide to open accordian side, side slide to star. Repaet in other direction. 12. Compress accordian too. partner turns with you. star, left hand compressed, star, right hand compressed. Those are the basics. Pretty much everything else you do on your belly in this sport will be some combination of those skills. For some real fun, try this. Start with a left hand open accordian. in one big move, slide to the left, turn 180 and present your left for the stairstep grip. Turn 180 to the right hand open accordian. slide right, turn 180 and present the other stairstep. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #6 April 21, 2005 Just to add to all the great answers you are getting here. If you can't afford the coach, at least jump with some one that is better then you. If you jump with some one at your level or below, you should just stay in the plane, throw your money out the door, and ride the plane down. It will be a wasted skydive.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #7 April 21, 2005 QuoteI agree with everyone else, get coaching. IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT. There is a trend toward paid coaching on the DZ. There is still a huge population of fun jumpers who will jump with you for free. If, like most of us, you can't afford to pay for the coach. Go meet the experienced jumpers on the DZ and start doing 2-ways. Someone with 40 jumps might not be your best choice. Make sure an instructor or S&TA approves of your choice.Quote Unfortunately this is not really an option for a student. You need an appropriate instructional rating such as an AFFI or Coaches rating to jump with a non-licensed student. So virtually none of the “fun jumpers” at a DZ can touch the guy legally (insert notes about waivers, etc., etc.). He must finish up his A-license requirements with an instructor of coach, who is probably going to want to get paid. To the original poster, your instructors should have a defined plan to get you from AFF to your license. If they don’t I would start looking at other DZ’s in your area. Any DZ worth it’s salt should have a plan to get your from point A to point B. At my DZ we do SDU and have very defined teaching and learning objectives on each jump and make sure the student meets all the requirements for the A license card in the process, such as “diving after another skydiver 100 feet.” Also, have you reviewed your A license card with your instructors? Did they tell you how to get all of the items check off? I can’t believe any DZ would let a student finish AFF and put him out on his own."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #8 April 21, 2005 Quote If you can't afford the coach, at least jump with some one that is better then you. If you jump with some one at your level or below, you should just stay in the plane, throw your money out the door, and ride the plane down. It will be a wasted skydive. I did a couple 2 way attempts like that (combined total 65 jumps). Wasn't a total waste, I realized how much of the work the coaches were doing on the jumps with me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #9 April 21, 2005 Quote did a couple 2 way attempts like that (combined total 65 jumps). Wasn't a total waste, I realized how much of the work the coaches were doing on the jumps with me. A good coach will let you learn on the dives. While on a jump, I let the student see what they are doing wrong, then try to help them out during the skydive. I don't want them getting too frustrated, but I want them to learn.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DrewGPM 0 #10 April 21, 2005 QuoteUnfortunately this is not really an option for a student. You need an appropriate instructional rating such as an AFFI or Coaches rating to jump with a non-licensed student. So virtually none of the “fun jumpers” at a DZ can touch the guy legally (insert notes about waivers, etc., etc.). He must finish up his A-license requirements with an instructor of coach, who is probably going to want to get paid. Good point. forgot that the original poster wants to get to A license status. I saw the 35 jumps on the profile, that threw me off a little. At my DZ, there are a lot of fun jumpers who are coach rated. They often do coach jumps at a discounted rate, sometimes all you gotta do is cover the slot. The coach rating requirement can be waived...so you can always check with the DZO on that one. I'm not sure what's on the A card. i'm making it my business to learn it and make sure my DZ has a plan to help get students through it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fmmobley 0 #11 April 21, 2005 This is great information, very helpful ... thanks... Marion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivefive 0 #12 April 28, 2005 What kind of plan does the DZ have to get people from AFF grad to A? I just followed the card and did all of the requirements. Not to be antagonistic... just curious.It isn't what it could be, or it what it should be, it is what it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #13 April 28, 2005 QuoteWhat kind of plan does the DZ have to get people from AFF grad to A? I just followed the card and did all of the requirements. Not to be antagonistic... just curious. Our DZ has a series of 9 coached jumps, which teach basic body flight. Forward and backward, up and down, center point turns, tracking, etc. There is ground coaching and then in air application. Each jump has a goal(s). An example of one jump 1. A. The student performs a diving exit, diving 100 feet after the coach. (for license) B. The student performs a series of up and down drills with the coach. (to build body flight skills) C. The student plans and independently execute a break-off from a group skydive with a minimum 100 feet of horizontal separation from another jumper or group. Separation must be gained independently in a straight track within ten degrees of a radial heading from the center of the formation. . (for license) D. 90-degree toggle turn, followed immediately by a turn of at least 180 degrees in the opposite direction. (for license) This is just an example, but every dive after AFF has purpose, both to build the free fall and canopy skills that will be needed once the student starts jumping with other licensed skydivers and to work them toward their license. The jumps that are not coached jumps still are designed to work the student toward their license."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites firstime 0 #14 April 29, 2005 QuoteWhat Funks said. Get coached. Too many solos after AFF is the best way to develop very bad habits. I'm still trying to get rid of them... Ditto on that Frenchy!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites xavenger 0 #15 April 29, 2005 In my opinion the most **cost effective** way of improving your basic free fall skills would be to go to a wind tunnel and get some coaching there. You can learn more there in a couple of days about body position and close relative moment than weeks or months jumping. Note that tunnel flying does not not improve your general "awareness of what's going on" in freefall which is **paramount** to your skydiving safety - only jumping (ideally with someone more experienced) brings about that awareness. Tunnel coaching is brilliant but if you intend to lob yourself out of planes it needs to be complimented with in-sky tuition. Other thing I would look at straight away - is canopy coaching. Do everything you can to develop your canopy skills so that you are confident about putting your canopy down safely even when the environment around you changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #16 April 29, 2005 If you have to continue to jump at the DZ that you started jumping at , Talk to the DZO about how you can get hooked up with other jumpers and get some experience. Hang around the fire at night and make some friends. Visit other DZ's in your area to check out the vibes. Last : get a sex change operation if your a guy. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyyhi 0 #17 April 29, 2005 According to your profile you jump at Skydive Monroe. They do have a license program according to their website. Ask your instructors to help you obtain your A license. . .they will have the information you need. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 2fat2fly 0 #18 April 29, 2005 At Monroe, you're going to have to look hard to find someone that isn't eager to help you. Listen, ask, practice-you'll be fine-yell when you get your A and I'll come down and we'll do 2 ways all day long for what ever you want to work on. I probably need to get there soon, I've got to owe beer for somethingI am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fmmobley 0 #19 May 24, 2005 You are exactly right about the people at Monroe being willing to jump with newbies like myself, and I am learning from everyone I jump with. Skydive Monroe is the greatest!... Marion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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kelpdiver 2 #8 April 21, 2005 Quote If you can't afford the coach, at least jump with some one that is better then you. If you jump with some one at your level or below, you should just stay in the plane, throw your money out the door, and ride the plane down. It will be a wasted skydive. I did a couple 2 way attempts like that (combined total 65 jumps). Wasn't a total waste, I realized how much of the work the coaches were doing on the jumps with me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #9 April 21, 2005 Quote did a couple 2 way attempts like that (combined total 65 jumps). Wasn't a total waste, I realized how much of the work the coaches were doing on the jumps with me. A good coach will let you learn on the dives. While on a jump, I let the student see what they are doing wrong, then try to help them out during the skydive. I don't want them getting too frustrated, but I want them to learn.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewGPM 0 #10 April 21, 2005 QuoteUnfortunately this is not really an option for a student. You need an appropriate instructional rating such as an AFFI or Coaches rating to jump with a non-licensed student. So virtually none of the “fun jumpers” at a DZ can touch the guy legally (insert notes about waivers, etc., etc.). He must finish up his A-license requirements with an instructor of coach, who is probably going to want to get paid. Good point. forgot that the original poster wants to get to A license status. I saw the 35 jumps on the profile, that threw me off a little. At my DZ, there are a lot of fun jumpers who are coach rated. They often do coach jumps at a discounted rate, sometimes all you gotta do is cover the slot. The coach rating requirement can be waived...so you can always check with the DZO on that one. I'm not sure what's on the A card. i'm making it my business to learn it and make sure my DZ has a plan to help get students through it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fmmobley 0 #11 April 21, 2005 This is great information, very helpful ... thanks... Marion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivefive 0 #12 April 28, 2005 What kind of plan does the DZ have to get people from AFF grad to A? I just followed the card and did all of the requirements. Not to be antagonistic... just curious.It isn't what it could be, or it what it should be, it is what it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #13 April 28, 2005 QuoteWhat kind of plan does the DZ have to get people from AFF grad to A? I just followed the card and did all of the requirements. Not to be antagonistic... just curious. Our DZ has a series of 9 coached jumps, which teach basic body flight. Forward and backward, up and down, center point turns, tracking, etc. There is ground coaching and then in air application. Each jump has a goal(s). An example of one jump 1. A. The student performs a diving exit, diving 100 feet after the coach. (for license) B. The student performs a series of up and down drills with the coach. (to build body flight skills) C. The student plans and independently execute a break-off from a group skydive with a minimum 100 feet of horizontal separation from another jumper or group. Separation must be gained independently in a straight track within ten degrees of a radial heading from the center of the formation. . (for license) D. 90-degree toggle turn, followed immediately by a turn of at least 180 degrees in the opposite direction. (for license) This is just an example, but every dive after AFF has purpose, both to build the free fall and canopy skills that will be needed once the student starts jumping with other licensed skydivers and to work them toward their license. The jumps that are not coached jumps still are designed to work the student toward their license."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #14 April 29, 2005 QuoteWhat Funks said. Get coached. Too many solos after AFF is the best way to develop very bad habits. I'm still trying to get rid of them... Ditto on that Frenchy!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xavenger 0 #15 April 29, 2005 In my opinion the most **cost effective** way of improving your basic free fall skills would be to go to a wind tunnel and get some coaching there. You can learn more there in a couple of days about body position and close relative moment than weeks or months jumping. Note that tunnel flying does not not improve your general "awareness of what's going on" in freefall which is **paramount** to your skydiving safety - only jumping (ideally with someone more experienced) brings about that awareness. Tunnel coaching is brilliant but if you intend to lob yourself out of planes it needs to be complimented with in-sky tuition. Other thing I would look at straight away - is canopy coaching. Do everything you can to develop your canopy skills so that you are confident about putting your canopy down safely even when the environment around you changes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #16 April 29, 2005 If you have to continue to jump at the DZ that you started jumping at , Talk to the DZO about how you can get hooked up with other jumpers and get some experience. Hang around the fire at night and make some friends. Visit other DZ's in your area to check out the vibes. Last : get a sex change operation if your a guy. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #17 April 29, 2005 According to your profile you jump at Skydive Monroe. They do have a license program according to their website. Ask your instructors to help you obtain your A license. . .they will have the information you need. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2fat2fly 0 #18 April 29, 2005 At Monroe, you're going to have to look hard to find someone that isn't eager to help you. Listen, ask, practice-you'll be fine-yell when you get your A and I'll come down and we'll do 2 ways all day long for what ever you want to work on. I probably need to get there soon, I've got to owe beer for somethingI am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fmmobley 0 #19 May 24, 2005 You are exactly right about the people at Monroe being willing to jump with newbies like myself, and I am learning from everyone I jump with. Skydive Monroe is the greatest!... Marion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
