Tandem instructors: Do you let licensed friends/family of tandems jump with you?

[grue 1]

My little cousin (heh, I still call him that even though he turned 19 a week ago) wants to do a jump "late this summer", when I'll definitely have my A, possibly even my B license, so I was thinking that if they'll let me, it'd be fun to go up on his load and freefall with him. Is that usually allowed, or is it typically a no-no?

I'm assuming I'd get a big fat "no way", but figured I'd ask you guys

EDIT: I don't want to dock, or even get particularly close, and certainly land away from 'em. Just be within sight, you know?

cavete terrae.

[AggieDave 6]

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I'm assuming I'd get a big fat "no way", but figured I'd ask you guys

I would have told you more tactfully, but no you most likely will not be allowed on the same skydive. Technically you're supposed to have 500 jumps or a TI or AFF-I to go up with a tandem.

What I recommend is that you go up on the load and jump out before the tandem. Chat with him on the way up, wave and leave, then you can get down and be there when he lands. That's just as good as being on the jump. Quite a few folks won't even see you if you're lurking a tandem. Hell, I had one student (who was a pilot) that our DZO went up and lurked. He docked on the student then spun us around for the video. All in all it was really cool. The student didn't even know he had been docked on and he didn't know that we had spun.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[aliveboy2004 0]

I would definately let you go out before me, and if I REALLY knew and trusted you, let you go out after me and fly in semi proximity so that your cousin could see you. But if you touched me or him, I would have to kill you.

[BillyVance 34]

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My little cousin (heh, I still call him that even though he turned 19 a week ago) wants to do a jump "late this summer", when I'll definitely have my A, possibly even my B license, so I was thinking that if they'll let me, it'd be fun to go up on his load and freefall with him. Is that usually allowed, or is it typically a no-no?

I'm assuming I'd get a big fat "no way", but figured I'd ask you guys

EDIT: I don't want to dock, or even get particularly close, and certainly land away from 'em. Just be within sight, you know?

At your experience, pretty much NO WAY... well, they might let you jump after the tandem after giving a 5 second or more delay... I dunno...

I've jumped with many tandems, lurking and even docking on the passenger, but generally speaking, it's up to the tandem-master. If they know you and know you have good flying skills, you'll probably get to join them.

I once did an all-deaf 4 way RW jump with a deaf tandem jumper and the tandem master was fluent in sign language because his ex-wife was deaf...

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Dumpster 0]

TI's where I jump pretty much all have the same rules - 500 jumps minimum, and they have to KNOW you before they will let you sting a tandem.
Biggest fear as I understand is getting mesed up with the drouge, among other things.

Easy Does It

[grue 1]

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I once did an all-deaf 4 way RW jump with a deaf tandem jumper and the tandem master was fluent in sign language because his ex-wife was deaf...

So it's kinda true, then: you CAN talk in freefall!

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. I'd rather jump before him than after, he really wants to do a jump, but is a rathern nervous sort, and he'd probably need to see me go first.

cavete terrae.

[diablopilot 2]

My biggest rule of thumb above all jump number and rating requirements is that if I've never jumped with you before and don't know your skill level, you cannot jump with me on a tandem skydive.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[bmcd308 0]

You probably do not WANT to jump with a tandem.

When you have been around the sport longer and heard more things that can get screwed up with a tandem like its giant burble and its highly variable fall rate and its big string of death trailing behind it and it is sliding all over the sky as the student changes body position and the TI has to pay more attention to the different EPs and the cameraman and correcting for whatever the student is doing and the pull altitude is higher and the handles are in a different place and this is a ripcord rig not my normal sport BOC rig and 2000 other things, the whole idea of jumping with a tandem will make you nervous.

You and the TI need to be 100% sure that you absolutely will not have a bad dock and tangle everyone up in that drogue. Three people rolled up in a drogue bridle would fall very fast.

But as Rhino might point out, it would be cool video if you docked on your friend.

Just ride the plane with your friend, and let your friend enjoy his or her first skydive without any external distractions. Or maybe let your friend get to the door and do a cool flipping exit so they can watch you fall away.

Just my $.02.

Brent

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www.jumpelvis.com

[Ron 10]

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My little cousin (heh, I still call him that even though he turned 19 a week ago) wants to do a jump "late this summer", when I'll definitely have my A, possibly even my B license, so I was thinking that if they'll let me, it'd be fun to go up on his load and freefall with him. Is that usually allowed, or is it typically a no-no?

I'm assuming I'd get a big fat "no way", but figured I'd ask you guys

EDIT: I don't want to dock, or even get particularly close, and certainly land away from 'em. Just be within sight, you know?

Ah, no.

If I know you, have been on jumps with you and I think you are safe...*maybe*.

Its nothing personal, but with 50-100 jumps you most likely will not have the control needed, and the passenger and I would be sitting ducks. A Tandem pair with the drouge out cannot avoid you. I have to think about the safety of the passenger.

Peep THIS and you will see why its a bad idea.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rustywardlow 0]

A tandem skydive is not a normal skydive. According to the rules you must either be an AFF instructor, a tandem instructor or have a min. 500 RW jumps and sorry freeflying doesn't count. I have had people with over a 1,000 jumps but never with a tandem go with me and they blew it. Personally it's up to the tandem instructor but, their first concern should always be torwards the safety of the passenger. Which doesn't mean you can't be on the load but, it is highly unlikely that you will get to tag along.


"Captain the anti matter is mixing with the doesn't matter."

[tdog 0]

I did what other people recommended... I jumped the same load with a friend who was a tandem, but gave the normal separation... We had fun on the ride up, and I was there when she landed...

It was fun and I would recommend it... Any time a friend of mine is going to do a tandem, expect to see me on the load, just leaving well before they do...

Travis

[Kris 0]

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Peep THIS and you will see why its a bad idea.

You beat me to posting that stellar example, Ron.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Travman 6]

Not that it applies to you, but just in case any aussies are interested in the rules in Australia, here are the Op Regs about relative work with tandems.

5.4.7. A parachutist shall not engage in relative work with a Tandem-Master carrying a student unless he or she is the holder of at least a Certificate "C", and has the authorisation of the DZSO and the Tandem-Master for that descent. (See also 5.8.11.)

5.8.11. A Tandem-Master carrying out a tandem descent shall not engage in contact relative work unless he or she has made at least 50 descents as a Tandem-Master since gaining his or her tandem endorsement. (See also 5.4.7.)

[bch7773 0]

I always thought the same thing, that it would be cool. Once I heard about the "killing your own mother" story, I deciced to wait till i had lots of jumps before I tried anything with a tandem.

you wouldn't wanna be the guy in the "killing your own cousin" story right?

MB 3528, RB 1182

[grue 1]

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Not that it applies to you, but just in case any aussies are interested in the rules in Australia, here are the Op Regs about relative work with tandems.

5.4.7. A parachutist shall not engage in relative work with a Tandem-Master carrying a student unless he or she is the holder of at least a Certificate "C", and has the authorisation of the DZSO and the Tandem-Master for that descent. (See also 5.8.11.)

5.8.11. A Tandem-Master carrying out a tandem descent shall not engage in contact relative work unless he or she has made at least 50 descents as a Tandem-Master since gaining his or her tandem endorsement. (See also 5.4.7.)

Heh, that does apply to me for when I go home :)

cavete terrae.

[grue 1]

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you wouldn't wanna be the guy in the "killing your own cousin" story right?

Not until he's rich.

cavete terrae.

[bob.dino 1]

and at Picton the rules are stricter:

200 jumps (~= D licence).
100 in the last year.
CI (~= S&TA + DZO) approval.
Tandem master approval.

[cocheese 0]

Lurking a tandem is fun, but always as serious as a heart attack. I would recommend a minumum of 500 jumps with a lot of RW skills
AND have a least 100 camera suit jumps (belly flying).
Even after all that, it can be tricky. Knowing the TM well and jumping with him/her often helps a lot for just knowing what each other is thinking during the dive/ knowing the moves of each other.
It's worth the wait.

[dayle 0]

I wouldn't even think of joining a Tandem until I at least had 200-300 jumps. I know the "requirement" is 500 jumps however that guideline can be "bent".

The key is being really comfortable and in control in the air. Tandems do weird things in the sky, such as moving around side to side and up and down. You have to be able to match this, and keep your eye on the video guy etc.

If you want to do it before you have 500 jumps, you should have superior flying skills on your belly. Also you'll want to do some jumping with your Tandem masters (regular jumps) so they can see your level of experience and so they would feel comfortable flying with you.

Remember, it's their ass if anything happens.

Dayle

[LawnDart21 0]

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Tandems do weird things in the sky, such as moving around side to side and up and down.

I only fall down. In 850+ tandems, I have yet to figure out how to go back up again.

IMHO all this "tandems do weird stuff" is not accurate. We go out, we get stable, we through the drogue and we fall to the earth, anchored in the sky by the drogue. Nothing weird going on. Any fall rate change is subtle.

The primary problem with tandem swooping is that the swooper is typically so amped up becuase its their friend or relative that they go BALLS TO THE WALL to get to the tandem. They get their too quick and then they have to settle down THIER fall rate, the tandem's fall rate isnt changing.

My wife and her best friend swoop my tandems all the time (with student permission of course), we dock and it all flys super stable, every time.

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My other ride is a RESERVE.

[bmcd308 0]

>>We go out, we get stable, we through the drogue and we fall to the earth, anchored in the sky by the drogue. Nothing weird going on. <<
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>>The primary problem with tandem swooping is that the swooper is typically so amped up <<


Maybe so...

I'm still afraid of you and your big drogue, though.

And when you figure out that back up thing, I'd like to buy a few coach jumps from you to get the hang of it.

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www.jumpelvis.com

[LawnDart21 0]

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I'm still afraid of you and your big drogue, though.

And that is a very safe & responsible way to feel.

It all boils down to the experience of the swooper. If they have the appropriate experience, then swooping a tandem can enhance the jump, but if they dont have the appropriate experience, they shouldn't be there at all.

As such, there are very very few people that I will let swoop my tandems:
1) My wife & her friend (both of whom I have jumped with since my 1st jump)
2) Our staff videographers, TMs and AFF instructors.
3) Our DZ 4way team that are insanely talented.
4) A half dozen or so other skydivers that I jump with that have been skydiving since before I was born. (Their licenses were issued before my birth certificate.....lol)

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My other ride is a RESERVE.

[dayle 0]

Well, I may not have the number of jumps that you have, but I have to disagree with you. After re-reading my post however, I guess I have to clarify.

The Tandem doesn't actually go up, however depending on the student and the instructor, not all Tandems fall straight down. Some have a slight turn going on, some have fall rate changes due to the body position of the student or instructor that make it different then simply docking on another skydiver.

What I had in mind was a particular tandem that I was going to dock on was "buffeting". I hadn't seen that before. As I was approaching it seemed like they were moving up and down about a foot or so.

It was no big deal as it was easy to compensate for, however for a junior jumper, it might not be quite as easy, hence my post.

Dayle

[kallend 2,106]

First time I swooped a tandem I had over 1,000 RW jumps, a Nationals medal in RW, and the TM was one of my team-mates. It is a non-trivial task in terms of safety and planning.

I'd say if you are good enough to be invited on a 60 way or bigger, you are probably OK.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.