bigorangemd 0 #26 May 10, 2005 Dude that has got to be a joke. I've got almoast 50 jumps and am just starting to be able to land at the spot I choose on the DZ and flare for consistent standups. You are getting ready to start 180 hook turns. ARE YOU F@#%ING CRAZY!!! Stay the h#$@ away from my DZ, I flew out a dude with over 300 jumps who is WAY better than you. Please post that you were kidding so I'll feel better. Not the week to joke about that shit! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skysprite 0 #27 May 10, 2005 My vote would have to be inbetween Very Conservative, No swooping for me EVER! and Somewhat Conservative, I find myself slowly pushing my limits. I plan on being conservative for a very long time, but at some point when I'm completely comfortable with canopy flight and my canopy, I may want to push my limits a little, and perhaps someday in the very distant future work on high performance landings. But as of this moment, it's all about being conservative.~skysprite Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #28 May 10, 2005 I love it. You say "No swooping for me EVER!" and then turn around and say "and perhaps someday in the very distant future work on high performance landings". Never say never in this sport. There are so many cool disciplines. But the successful canopy ride is the only mandatory requirement if we want to keep jumping and make that next load together. You know I wasn't supposed to be a swooper and now I am. Where did I go wrong? Be smart. Seek canopy training. Learn how a wing flies. To me a panic low turn is just as bad as a bad hook turn. There are still a lot of people who weren't hook turning when they messed themselves up. They just didn't know how to fly their canopy. I see you're in NM. Come up and visit us here in Colorado. We have a canopy control school now where we teach you basic skills that could save your life if you find yourself in bad situations. Plus it will give you confidence because you will have an idea as to what you are doing up there. We've got an Otter for the summer, King Air and Cessna 206. Plus there's a boogie in June. The atmosphere here has been getting better. I've made the drive to Belan. It's a little over six hours. I jumped my first rig, doing my own first unsupervised pack jobs at my first boogie when I visited Skydive New Mexico in the fall of 2002. I had a good time and met some good people. Anyway I digress. If you've got the time and money you should come visit us here in CO. Get some canopy training and jump some turbine aircraft. Back on topic ... High Performance canopy flight is an incredible way to expand your canopy control horizons. But it requires hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of jumps on lighter loaded canopies before one gets down to high wings loadings. Knowing when to get off of the risers is just as important as being able to setup your hook. And this is only built through experience. Some people are better than others. But there are no short cuts. It still requires hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of ... well you get the picture. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #29 May 10, 2005 QuoteQuote I'm currently working on my front riser carve from base to final- the feel of those are pretty good and I'll be moving on to 180s soon. I'll take the first week of July. Anyone else want in? Because you all have pissed him off by pointing out the obvious, I think he will over compensate. I take one of the next two jumps. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #30 May 10, 2005 QuoteQuoteQuote I'm currently working on my front riser carve from base to final- the feel of those are pretty good and I'll be moving on to 180s soon. I'll take the first week of July. Anyone else want in? Because you all have pissed him off by pointing out the obvious, I think he will over compensate. I take one of the next two jumps. pick a date man! there is no telling when his next two jumps could be... but you could very well be right....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btucker 0 #31 May 10, 2005 Someone already said some good stuff: Quote Be smart. Seek canopy training. Learn how a wing flies. To me a panic low turn is just as bad as a bad hook turn. There are still a lot of people who weren't hook turning when they messed themselves up. They just didn't know how to fly their canopy. Quote High Performance canopy flight is an incredible way to expand your canopy control horizons. But it requires hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of jumps on lighter loaded canopies before one gets down to high wings loadings. Knowing when to get off of the risers is just as important as being able to setup your hook. And this is only built through experience. Some people are better than others. But there are no short cuts. It still requires hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of ... well you get the picture. There also are other corners in the performance envelope besides swooping: Slow flight, CRW, accuracy... Put me down for $50 for July (I hope I lose my dosh too) Stay safe, Benno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #32 May 10, 2005 Quotevery very conservative canopy pilot Of course there is also the concern that it is possible to be so conservative, never trying anything like flat turns etc down low (after trying them up high!) that you never really learn how to fly your canopy... and when you get some nugget landing 90 degrees to everyone else you then don't have the skillset to avoid them, do a panic turn and get hurt... There must be some ideal middle ground here?*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #33 May 10, 2005 Ohh... I want in for the July 4th weekend. Boogies always make people do something stupid.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #34 May 10, 2005 Quote Ohh... I want in for the July 4th weekend. That's my weekend. Try again, or put down the big bucks and I'll pick another one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
avgjoe 0 #35 May 10, 2005 QuoteIs it new gear? What colors? It is probably red but blood washes out. It depends on where the paramedics cut the harness. I figure if you only want the canopies anyway you could get a good deal. Avgjoe Hook it for safety Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spizzzarko 0 #36 May 10, 2005 I would have to say I'm somewhat conservative. I try to do the same thing everytime, so that I'm consistant. This not only helps me, but other people get used to what I do on every jump. In the back of their minds, they can say, Grant will be over there at this altitude and over there at that altitude, and landing in this direction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perse 0 #37 May 10, 2005 does this " As Aggressive as they come" option mean being stupid. You can be as aggressive as your personal physics allows you to be and still skip swooping when there's no room for a decent landing pattern... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #38 May 10, 2005 >It depends on where the paramedics cut the harness. Generally, lateral straps are the easiest to fix on a 'conventional' rig, but the MLW is pretty easy to fix on a ringed harness (hip/chest rings.) The more rings, the easier to fix. Which is why low jump number swoopers should get fully articulated harnesses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #39 May 10, 2005 Quote I guess I am so amazed because I am a very very conservative canopy pilot. I just dont believe in fucking around with something like that, yes, i know accidents can happen but in these cases i believe they are 100% preventable. Just dont hook it in low, NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE! No one would die skydiving if no one skydived. We're here because we think that wouldn't be much fun and are willing to take the risks which go with it. The best you can hope for with canopy incidents is people knowing the actual risks, applying judgement, and weighting the odds in their favor through training and experience in less dangerous environments (on their own pass without any traffic, at thousands of feet off the ground, incrementally increasing turn angles, etc) Quote Curious to know how everyone flies their canopies. What kind of canopy pilot are you? None of the above. I do no more than I plan, which is the most I feel is prudent for a given situation including the winds, traffic, landing area, currency there, parachute, and currency under it. I do less if the landing area gets too crowded, for some reason I don't get close enough to where I want to be before turning, or things just aren't right. When I've had 200 jumps on my Samurai, 800 at or beyond my current wingloading, done 10 jumps a weekend for a couple months, been playing a lot with swooping recently, am on the day's fifth hop-and pop at my home dropzone, and there's a steady 5 MPH breeze that might mean a nice 180 down-wind landing. I used a very slow deep brake approach when jumping into a 60x120' landing area with trees on three sides and a steep hill on the fourth. Last weekend I went home because the winds were all over the place between 15 and 30 MPH and that means turbulence. Good judgement starts before you jump. Usually I like a nice carving 90 into the wind. It's still plenty fast (about 50 MPH on RADAR) and enjoyable, lets me see everyone else, doesn't break the pattern, has my parachute flying almost straight and level near the ground, and is easily adjusted to provide enormous lattitude in starting altitude. That could mostly be "very conservative," but doesn't fit "no swooping ever". When things are right I'm less conservative. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #40 May 10, 2005 For the record, I believe people who "Don't swoop - EVER" to be a far greater risk than people who try to understand all aspects of canopy flight knowledgably and carefully. People who "Don't swoop - EVER" are unlikely to practice flat turns, carves, or how to bail from an unintentional low turn, all 3 being critical skills to keeping yourself alive. To anwer your question, I consider myself "Somewhat agresive". Although I jump at a high wingloading I have gotten here gradually, and with my eyes open as much as possible. I attempt to swoop roughly half of my landings. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crewkeith 0 #41 May 10, 2005 swooping is scary i dont wanna swoop. .The skies are no longer safe I'm back Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #42 May 11, 2005 I'll be an optimist and say the first weekend of September. He'll be onto 270s by then . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #43 May 11, 2005 Quoteswooping is scary i dont wanna swoop. . lol, I thought you were just afraid of freefall Keith... NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #44 May 11, 2005 QuoteQuoteswooping is scary i dont wanna swoop. . lol, I thought you were just afraid of freefall Keith... That is what I thought... I have never seen him not-hop-n-pop. Anyone here ever seen Keith freefall? I will pay a few bucks to the first person who posts a picture of him doing freefly or RW or something other than hop-n-pops. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #45 May 11, 2005 QuoteAnyone here ever seen Keith freefall? I have. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LearningTOfly 0 #46 May 11, 2005 I figured saying what I did would stir up all kinds of these comments... The first thing I find interesting is that now that everybody has read ONE of my posts, they know precisely what sort of canopy pilot I am, what my style is, and apperently, my new life expectancy. I admire all of your inter-internet telepathic powers... even though no one here so far has ever seen me land. For me personally, canopy flying is easy. Fly a circuit, land in the peas- duh. At ten feet- flare smoothly. Pull harder, flare faster... simply speaking. This isn't rocket science, and realistically, there are a lot of activites that move quite a bit faster than a swoop, and subsequently have the potential for breaking you into many more pieces when you mess up. Anyways, onto my responses: pilotdave: Glad to entertain you for a moment funks: Thanks for the opinion... I understand what you're saying, but feel comfy with what I am doing- worse comes to worse you're in a position to say 'I told you so ' and I'll buy the beer. I don't associate the approach with contact with the ground... the approach consists of downwind, base and final. Landing is the part when you hit the ground. A botched approach occus in the air... a botched landing occurs on the ground, and usually follow an uncorrected botched approach. But to each his own... Canuck: Thanks for the comments- you know a bit where I'm coming from. I seem to fly the circuit fairly well and can put it down where I want me to go, so I'm moving on to front risering... don't get me wrong, I'm not going whole hog into ripping tight 180s to swoop across a pond or something like you see on the movies- I'm just riding a front riser carve around for a little more time in the flare (a mini-swoop so to say). I have a good flying job this summer, and breaking a leg would thoroughly suck... like it would really really thoroughly suck- and that fact is always in my mind- so I hope you'll take me off the bounce list. Cheers from Canada. bigorangemd: That's you and this is me... to each his own. I think myself to not be crazy... at least on the days I remember to take the blue pills. Cheers "Are we going to have a separate pool for fatal vs just compound fractures?" "If he improves his carving, he'll bounce past the gear instead of on it." ...okay, I'm not sure what prompted these comments, but I think they're a bit inappropriate, even for a skydiving message board. Anyways, if I do figure I really messed something up, I'll try my best not to leave any bits of me on the gear. Heck, I could even bequeath what's left of it to you, happythoughts, if you'd like. Sigh.. this was fun, but I have real life to return to... Blue skies everyone... and remeber- this is an online message board, no one has inter- internet telepathic powers, and people in general are exceptionally good at making assumptions based on hmmm... absolutely nothing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #47 May 11, 2005 Quotepeople in general are exceptionally good at making assumptions based on hmmm... absolutely nothing. You're right. We're all talking out of our asses. The dead and injured who spouted the same words prior to impact are figments of our imaginations. Sometimes I wish I was young and immortal again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LearningTOfly 0 #48 May 11, 2005 I was speaking more to the effect of everybody knows me so well now that I made one post here. I read the accident reports too- I know what's going on. Like another dz.commer said: the ground is hard and doesn't care. I know people who 'were' friends or aquaintences- I say 'were' because they are now dead- due to flying some sort of wing or another. Immortality is a figment of the imagination. A grand idea, immortality is, though. Youth is fun, too... it just passes all to quickly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #49 May 11, 2005 dude - in all honesty you are most likely going to get flamed EVEN MORE for your follow up post. You are failing to realize that people with 1000's and 1000's of jumps are trying to tell you something. They have been around alot longer than you and i and understand the habits and patterns created by those who have a tendency to hurt themselves. What was said in this thread was based on alot of peoples experience and wisdom, not just based on an opportunity to take a cheap shot at you. Its your call on how you approach skydiving and the advice you receive from those more experienced than you. You are playing down what takes place under canopy and what can go wrong, you are taking alot for granted. That my friend is a recipe for disaster. I for one did not take part in the "when will you bounce" contest but would now like to do so...My vote for when you bounce is within 30 days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
funks 1 #50 May 11, 2005 Quote a botched landing occurs on the ground, and usually follow an uncorrected botched approach. That my friend is called pounding in. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
