Sales Tax on jumps WTF???

[justinb138 0]

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there is something totally messed up in the US tax system.

I won't disagree with you there.

[PhreeZone 20]

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If it's really as mainstream as, say, scuba diving, why shouldn't a skydive be taxed like a dive trip?

Way to go Bill, you just made me depressed about the status of the sport and its future.

For those DZ's being affected by this, make sure to contact the USPA. They lobbyed successfully years ago to avoid getting an airplace ticket fee charged to us and to avoid the September 11 security fees.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

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If that makes sense to you I would love to hear it.

Ok, here ya go, since it makes a difference in Denmark somehow.

The government wants to tax tandems as an amusement and skydiving as the same, they also want paid the back taxes for atleast the last 10 years or how ever long the business has been opened. That's for every jump, every tandem made and every video sold (the video is seen as an amusement as well, instead of a training video).

So, in order to recoup hundreds of thousands of dollars to be paid back in a very short amount of time, prices will essentually double.

Now does it make sense. Like I said, you don't know whats going on and you're trying to judge from another side of the world.

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If it is a simple 7.45% added to the price and not 100%, I would like to repeat that you whine.

Ok, I'm whining, since a lot of DZs would have to simply go out of business then declare bankrupcey to keep from having to pay all that money back, which is being wrongfully judged in the first place.

I'm whining, right?

Lets say its a small DZ that only does 1000 slots a year and 200 tandems a year, but has been in business for 10 years. Lets say $20 a slot and $200 a tandem. Lets say to years and lets use your tax percentage but round it to 7.5% even though that's lower then what the tax they're fighting for is. That leaves $45,000 in back taxes to be paid back for a business bringing in roughly $60,000 a year. Never mind all the expenses with running a DZ, such as airplanes, maintance, staff, gear, pilot, aircraft insurance and fuel.

Now are you actually getting a clear picture or am I still whining? That's 75% of that businesses money flow to be paid back in taxes. Not profit, just the overall amount of money brought in the door each year.

Yup, I'm whining, obviously 75% of a businesses gross income isn't too much to tax and it will obviously have exactly no drastic effect on lift ticket prices.

Do you have a clear picture now or are you going to call me a whiner again?

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kelpdiver 2]

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If it's really as mainstream as, say, scuba diving, why shouldn't a skydive be taxed like a dive trip?

Dive trips aren't taxed, Bill.

[billvon 2,990]

>Dive trips aren't taxed, Bill.

They were when I was back in NY.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The government wants to tax tandems as an amusement and skydiving as the same, they also want paid the back taxes for atleast the last 10 years or how ever long the business has been opened. That's for every jump, every tandem made and every video sold (the video is seen as an amusement as well, instead of a training video).

On what basis do they seek to apply taxes to past sales? I have a hard time taking that seriously, Dave. It has the same sound of scare as the post office wants to charge Americans for email.

[AggieDave 6]

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It has the same sound of scare as the post office wants to charge Americans for email.

That's why there's a couple of DZOs that have teamed up to fight it in court after recieving the certified letters, then, right? Its a hoax, a total hoax, there is no legal basis and the DZs are a total figment of my imagination.

They're seeking on the basis that since the law has been on the books since 1994 or 95 (can't remember off the top of my head) and that the DZs had just skirted the tax. Sort of like if you didn't pay your taxes, saying "gee, I didn't know I had to pay tax on that" won't get you off the hook and the government is going to want their money. Even if you were right in not paying the taxes, if the tax office thinks you're wrong, you're going to have to fight it to keep your money.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kelpdiver 2]

state decision. California does not. Can't recall one way or the other about Florida.

[billvon 2,990]

> state decision.

Agreed. True in this case too.

[kelpdiver 2]

well, good luck to them.

It's still misleading to say that this tax is going to double the cost of jumping. It's only doing so if in fact these DZs had skirted the issue for years and now were caught. For everyone else, it's 7% (or whatever the rate is).

No one wants to pay more than they have to, but it's worth noting that your state has no income rax, correct? I paid about 7% of my gross to California.

[justinb138 0]

No Income tax here in TX, but they pretty much tax the hell out of everything else.

[AggieDave 6]

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It's only doing so if in fact these DZs had skirted the issue for years and now were caught.

The thing is they were NOT skirting the issue, skydiving is a sport and doesn't fall under the amusement tax bracket, like Six Flags and Schlitterban. Its that the government suddenly decided to go after skydiving and is trying to make it look like DZ's have "skirted" the tax law, which is 100% not the case.

Basically is really underhanded and when other DZs in other states don't fight for their rights, they're hurting DZ's all over the country.


And you're right, we have no income tax, but our property taxes more then make up for it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Brains 2]

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It's still misleading to say that this tax is going to double the cost of jumping. It's only doing so if in fact these DZs had skirted the issue for years and now were caught. For everyone else, it's 7% (or whatever the rate is).

I was confused as to how he worded it also and i live in the same state and our dz is going through the same shit. The problem arises when, as i understand it, there actually wasn't a law passed or anything. ten years ago, a dz was told that they owed because it was an amusement, rather than fight it, they paid. Now the state thinks they have a precedent, and the rest of us owe for the past ten years. It really sucks.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I was confused as to how he worded it also and i live in the same state and our dz is going through the same shit. The problem arises when, as i understand it, there actually wasn't a law passed or anything. ten years ago, a dz was told that they owed because it was an amusement, rather than fight it, they paid. Now the state thinks they have a precedent, and the rest of us owe for the past ten years. It really sucks.

Sounds like time for some good representation in the capitol, and a healthy dose of that Texas attitude. (and maybe a late night visit to the offending DZ)

[Brains 2]

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(and maybe a late night visit to the offending DZ)

It hasn't been around for a while now.

Never look down on someone, unless they are going down on you.

[tandemking 0]

We fought that shit here in Idaho and lost, for two years, then the state figured out that they were taxing the rides to altitude illegaly! USPA did NOTHING to help when the situation was instituted in 2003. If there are no National or Regional Directors or multi turbine DZ's in Missouri consider yourselves screwed as USPA will not step in and help. Keep paying those dues though. Gotta build a bitchin museum!!!! D-16806

[JohnnyD 0]

Dave,
If you can scan any of the correspondence and pm it, I'd really like to take a look at it.

[Jonsmann 0]

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Do you have a clear picture now or are you going to call me a whiner again?

Well you have me tempted, you seem quite agitated about being called a whiner!

Being asked to pay sales tax for the past 10 years sounds like something from a banana republic. Lets see if the US is a banana republic then.

If it is only 7.45% sales tax from now on it is annoying, but not really a problem.

Jacques

[headoverheels 333]

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The thing is they were NOT skirting the issue, skydiving is a sport and doesn't fall under the amusement tax bracket, like Six Flags and Schlitterban.

Are things like golfing greens fees taxed? Ice skating rinks?

[AggieDave 6]

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Are things like golfing greens fees taxed? Ice skating rinks?

Not that I know of, but I haven't been ice skating in many years and the closest thing to a greens fee I've had was the fee it took to rent Tiger Woods 2005 a while back at Blockbuster.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Squeak 17]

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If that makes sense to you I would love to hear it.
Ok, here ya go, since it makes a difference in Denmark somehow.

Mabye the thread title should say only US citizens respond
Dave in the couple of years I been here you've almost always make rational comments (not sure about SC don't really go there) But you're being pretty harsh at a post that questions somtrhing you posted.
There was nothing agrevating in the post and I was also wondering how a smallsurchage could double prices.
Since you've explained that it is a retro tax (we don;t have them here in Oz, when you instigate a tax it's from the start date, not previous) it makes it a lot clearer.
However if they do double the prices of jumps, I reasonably certain that many people will find other things to occupy their time instead of skydiving.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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[AggieDave 6]

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Dave in the couple of years I been here you've almost always make rational comments (not sure about SC don't really go thereWink) But you're being pretty harsh at a post that questions somtrhing you posted.

Yeah, I was much too harsh. Basically I didn't really take a liking to basically being called a lier and that I was simply "whining." There are many things I don't care about, but being called or implied as a lier, that really burns me.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[kai2k1 0]

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Mabye the thread title should say only US citizens respond

In the last line of my post I did specificly say the US aka United states.

There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan