First Cutaway - Story & Questions

[inzite 0]

So, I had my first cutaway yesterday. It seems I owe beer (a bottle for the rigger isn't a tradition in Russia...go figure).
Here's the story, as well as some questions I want to throw out to help prevent it from happening again.
It was my second jump of the day. I was jumping a Scorpion 150 (made by a Russian company, ParaAvis), in a Mirage G3 150/150 container with a Tempo 150 reserve. This is a system I bought about a month ago (used container and reserve, new main and kill-line pilot chute). I'd put 12 jumps on this system before my malfunction, and was very happy with it except for one detail. On two previous jumps, I'd experienced very slow deployments. Each time I'd continued to freefall an additional 2-3 seconds after throwing the pilot chute before feeling line stretch and the risers start to unstow. I wasn't totally sure there really had been a problem - after all, it could all have just been in my mind. But I had a _feeling_ there was something inhibiting deployment - closing loop too tight, pilot chute too small, or container too tight. Perhaps even pilot chute not fully cocked (unlikely, but possible).
I was jumping my own packjob. After an uneventful sitfly, went to belly at 5500 feet, waved at 3800 feet, and started deployment at 3200-3300 feet. One second passed. Two seconds passed. Three seconds passed. Still in freefall. At a little over four seconds I was sure there was something very wrong and went to emergency procedures.
First I went for my cutaway handle. I pulled red, and halfway through the cutaway procedure, felt the main risers start to deploy and a tug as my main started to inflate, as well as what I think was one of the risers releasing. Continued pulling the cutaway handle, swept my left arm down to clear the cables, and threw away the handle as I felt myself return into freefall (well, not really return as I never completely left freefall, but felt myself returning from a standing orientation towards a bellydown). Immediately pulled silver and was quickly under a beautiful white Tempo reserve. Not even a harsh/violent opening - just very swift. My Digitude read 1580 feet, though I didn't look at it until checking the canopy, clearing airspace, and spotting my main and freebag. Actual reserve opening was probably at about 1800 feet.
After watching my main and freebag for a bit, to judge where they might land, I headed for the landing zone for a very nice landing (though I misjudged the flare and ended up falling back on my butt).
So, here are all the things I can think of that could have caused this total mal:
1) Flawed pilot chute
2) Uncocked pilot chute
3) Closing loop too tight
4) Bag lock
5) Canopy pack volume too large for container
I'm relatively convinced the malfunction was caused by forcing a main canopy that was too big into a container that was too small for it. Yes, it was a 150 main in a 150 container, but a Scorpion 150 has a large pack volume for a 150 (something I only learned after buying it), and it's always required a bit of technique to get it into the container. Inspection of the pilot chute by myself and a rigger showed no problems. I'm absolutely sure the pilot chute was cocked (while packing for this jump I'd actually had some trouble initially cocking the pilot chute, and went so far as to pull the pin on the container so I could rearrange the stowing of the bridle. I then closed the container, and cocked the pilot chute. Hell, it was cocked and then some). The closing loop was tight but not unreasonably so. And inspection of the d-bag shows that all rubber bands were unbroken, leading me to believe it was NOT bag lock. So that leaves only door number 5 - canopy too large for container.
I'm convinced this is what caused my two previous slow deployments, as well as this latest incident (which itself was another slow deployment - it's just that main deployment started after I'd already decided to go to EPs and started pulling handles).
I talked to a rigger about the problem and he recommended unsewing a portion of the bottom two corners of the main container in order to allow for easier main deployments. I'll be taking the container to ParaAvis (a local canopy/container manufacturer) probably on Wednesday to have this done, as well as have an RSL installed and have the G3 Cypres modification done.
Luckily, I'm still here to tell the tale (and not listed in the incidents forum). However, things I wish I'd done differently:
1) I wish I'd looked over my shoulder to "see" the problem
2) I wish I'd jabbed the main container with my elbows to try and dislodge the main before going to EPs
One simple remedy that I think could have prevented this mal is to simply not rotate the d-bag when placing it in the container. All three times I experienced delayed openings (including this cutaway), the d-bag had been rotated. However, on 6 jumps I did not rotate the d-bag, and aside from making the container EASIER to close (go figure), I experienced no delays in deployment. I'm planning on making this regular practice even after the container modifications are done. Specifically, on my kill-line bridle, there is a very stiff, unflexible section that extends about one inch above the d-bag. I believe the pressure of this stiff section of the bridle pressing against the reserve container is what kept the d-bag from deploying.
My questions are:
1) Is there anything I might have missed or could have done better in saving my own life?
2) What will the effects from this container modification be? Will it make it more difficult to put a normal-sized 150 in the container? Does anyone have any experience with such a mod?
3) Is it common practice to have this one inch stiff bridle section directly above the d-bag? This is my first kill-line system, so I don't have any reference.
4) Is there any reason it's dangerous NOT to rotate the d-bag? I've read that rotating the d-bag helps prevent bag lock by stopping line stows from interacting, but I don't personally agree with this (again, if I'm wrong, correct me). As I understand it, rotating the d-bag only makes the d-bag better fit in the container (which in my case isn't even really the case).
Sorry for all the questions. A lot of them would be better posed to a rigger, but I'm in a country where I have only intermediate knowledge of the language, and so explaining some of this to a rigger would be difficult.
Blue skies & thanks for any help,
Will

[davelepka 4]

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rearrange the stowing of the bridle. I then closed the container, and cocked the pilot chute

I'd start with cocking your PC before you put the canopy in the bag. Then check that it remained cocked just before you close the container.

Cocking a PC with the container closed means the kill line has to work it's way around the flaps and into the tight container area. Often times the bridle will just bunch up under the flaps, and appear cocked, when it's really not.

I would try it this way before cutting the corners on your container, or not rotating your bag. A 150 anything will fit into a G3 built for a 150 main.

[Frenchy68 0]

Question: ould it have been the PC caught in the burble? It happened to me once, and as I went to EP, it cleared and pulled the main out. I now look over my shoulder on every jump to change the airflow.
Just wondering...

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[jumper03 0]

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Question: ould it have been the PC caught in the burble? It happened to me once, and as I went to EP, it cleared and pulled the main out. I now look over my shoulder on every jump to change the airflow.
Just wondering...

I was thinking the same thing - weak toss and PC in tow?

Scars remind us that the past is real

[inzite 0]

One of the other things I'd thought about - it definitely could have been PC in burble. Unfortunately, I have no way to find out exactly what the deal was. However, 3 delayed openings in 12 jumps seems a little excessive. After the first two delays I made it a habit of looking over my shoulder to witness the deployment, and had no problems. However, on this most recent one, I didn't look.
I'd like to do some pack jobs on the main and pull the bridle by hand to see if I can get it stuck in there, but unfortunately without a reserve packjob that's kind of pointless, and I'm going to send the container off at least for the Cypres Mod and RSL before getting the reserve repacked.

[sundevil777 102]

You might try measuring the force required to pull the pin, best to do it a few times. This info is not hard to get and will help to get at the root cause/eliminate possibilities.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[kelpdiver 2]

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First I went for my cutaway handle. I pulled red, and halfway through the cutaway procedure, felt the main risers start to deploy and a tug as my main started to inflate,

Does reaching for the cutaway handle change the airflow enough to catch a PC in the burble? Seems that it was either a slow deploy, or initiating your EP altered the situation.

[Frenchy68 0]

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Does reaching for the cutaway handle change the airflow enough to catch a PC in the burble?

Yes. At least it did for me.

"For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return."

[dragon2 2]

Sounds like maybe your kill-line is too short, a rigger can tell if it is.
After 3 where-the-heck-is-my-canopy openings I decided to let someone check my brand new (!) killline pilotchute, guess what, way too short.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Avion 0]

The only things I can think of are:

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1) The container mod, you already know about this.

2) The PC kill line is too short, already been mentioned.

3) The PC is too small, also been mentioned.

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The packing volume of the main is probably OK. containers usually have a little tolerance for a slightly larger size. Main pin pull tension should be around 6-12lbs(~3-6kg).

Cheers

[billbooth 10]

I suspect a pilot chute problem. Read some of my previous posts about how to tell if your pilot chute is correctly made, and functioning properly. A good pilot chute ought to pull nearly 100 lbs. at terminal. That much force would easily clear any pin you could get into your closing loop, and just as easily pull out any bag you could get into your container..no matter how tight. With a proper pilot chute, time from pilot chute release to line stretch should not exceed 3/4 of a second.

[BenHall 0]

Okay, I am no expert on the matter, but trying to jab the the container with your elbows on a main mal shouldn't be done. You have a reserve for a reason, and you did the right thing. By the time you realize you have a mal, make the decision to try and dislodge it, and actually start jabbin it with your elbows, you have lost a ton of altitude. Go to your vigorously instilled EP's!! From what I've always heard, the only time you should be whackin your container is if your main is gone and your reserve won't budge. Good to hear you're okay though!

[NWPoul 1]

Hi Will, If I am right - it was you in 1st load with funny guy in leopard suit (FF 2 way - just before us)

Congrats on you succesful first cut-away;) glad everything works out good...

Regarding possible reason of your mal:
If I understood you right (my english is still poor) than you did cocked your PC AFTER you did insert your closing pin? Exactly this thing bring my PC in tow few jumps ago...

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[darrenspooner 0]

Don't take this as a given, I'm inexperienced. But I jumped a few mains now and I had this ZP170 squeezed into a 150 d-bag. But that didn't cause any problems. I had done about 30 jumps and they were very snivelly. Like, 5 or 6 seconds. But I got used to that. I looked up and saw the 4 nice clean line groups going through the slider grommets, so I was sure it was okay. But then one day, at the end of a long day, I got a packer to pack it for me because I was tired. I didn't know but he rolled the nose a little. So there I was, 6000, 7000, and I peeled my cutaway just as it opened. Cutaway back in, the rest uneventful.

It just so happened that my canopy was a sniveller and took a while to inflate.

So I'd say, try to look up and see what's happening, and think about how you are packing it. You might just have a sniveller that needs to be teased to open a little quicker by keeping the nose out the front and the slider in the right spot.

[inzite 0]

Thanks all for the insight and comments. It's always great to hear from more experienced jumpers dispensing knowledge. It's given me a lot to think about.

Yep, that was me jumping with Dan in the leopard suit. I'm really disappointed I didn't get to put in more jumps there at Borki - it was my first time jumping there. Still, we did get a three way in at the end of the day, with me jumping rented gear.

I've been thinking a lot about the possibility of an incompletely cocked pilot chute. What I wrote in my original post is a little misleading - I cocked it after it was already in the bag, and then pulled the kill line again after closing the container. I noticed the bridle just above the closing pin scrunched up a bit, and so I popped the container to adjust it, just to be _sure_. However, there's always the chance I missed something in this process.

Now I'm leaning more towards pilot chute in burble. I'm really tempted to say it's just that the canopy is too big for the container, but I know that's probably not the case. I've checked the kill line length on my pilot chute and it's fine.

After reading Bill Booth's pointers on pilot chutes I checked mine and the only issue I have is that the apex, when fully inflated, lies right AT the level of the skirt. That's something I'd actually noticed a while ago, and had struck me as odd. It's not the kill line that prevents the apex from extending further "above" or "below" the skirt (depending on how you look at it - right side up or upside down). There's a piece of tape running between the apex and the point where the mesh attaches to the bridle. It's this tape that prevents the apex from extending further away from the bridle and "above/below" the skirt. I'm definitely going to have one more rigger look at the pilot chute, but hand tosses show it seems to function normally and inflate fully.

Anyway, the rig goes off to ParaAvis tomorrow, and hopefully I'll have it back and can get it packed by next weekend. Now's a very convenient time to have the mods done anyway, as all the dropzones around Moscow will be closed this weekend for Victory Day celebrations.

[Rainbo 0]

Listening to Bill is always sound advice. Get a scale and check your pull force. Have the PC checked since you already know that it seems to be somewhat out of shape due to the tape issue. Lastly the PC in your burble is always a possibility. Always THROW your PC when you release. The air can knocjk it behind you if it does not get a clean launch. If you are comfortably with it you should think about starting to sit up as you release the PC. I have done this for years. It clears your back by moving air over it, allows you to look up easier at the deploying canopy to see its deployment and identify issues that may be arising during that particular portion of the opening sequence. And I find it is easier on my back being a little more vertical at opening shock. Have fun.

Rainbo
TheSpeedTriple - Speed is everything
"Blessed are those who can give without remembering, and take without forgetting."

[katzurki 0]

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Hi Will, If I am right - it was you in 1st load with funny guy in leopard suit (FF 2 way - just before us)

I beg to differ. It was cheetah!

Not to stray offtopic, gratz on living, was fun, too bad about the freebag. And we're still waiting on the beer ..er, I mean, I hope you are coming over there to jump on May 15...

[murps2000 86]

Now I'm leaning more towards pilot chute in burble. I'm really tempted to say it's just that the canopy is too big for the container, but I know that's probably not the case. I've checked the kill line length on my pilot chute and it's fine.***


How long is your bridle?

[NWPoul 1]

Oh it was cheetah I beg pardon
So you didn't find the freebag...that's pity, but there is still a chance find it, when I was at Aerograd Kolomna few weeks ago some guy had to bougth a case of beer...cause he find his main choped three weeks (or mounth? I do not sure) ago!.

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[speedyhogan 0]

Sounds almost exactly like my first mal, only I'd spent close to 100 jumps trying to solve pc hesitation before hand. I had the pc changed, the bridle length checked, the stitching in the lower corners of the container "eased" (A teardrop classic) I changed body position and my throw, but ended up with the same hesitation. The main cleared as the reserve cleared the tray. There was almost no tension on the pin when tested on the ground. Still don't know what caused it.

Smile, Get It Over With

[inzite 0]

The bridle seems long enough (again, I'm no rigger, just talking out of my ass). Just eyeballing it, I'd guess it's a little over two meters from pin to end of bridle (where it connects to PC).

[murps2000 86]

Two meters sounds normal. I know one guy that had hesitation problems and got a longer one to help, but he does all hop & pops. Most everyone uses a bridle the same size as yours. I'd take Bill's advice, and look at the pilot chute. You might try cocking it before you put it in the bag, then checking it again right after, if you don't already.