When did you first try out an elliptical canopy?

[Unutsch 0]

i made my first jump on a fully ellyptical AtAir Alpha 130 at around 120 jumps, then, for some 200 jumps tryed a lot of different canopies (from 95 to 150 sqft), and finally bought an Alpha 100... am still alive, no injuries... but i know i'm no wonder kid and immune to accidents...

as for your question what to do, i'd recommend you to try a lot of canopies out, before deciding on buying one...

Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation:
http://www.padliangeli.org

[piisfish 140]

If it's a vengeance, it might be better that you sell it.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[skybytch 273]

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And the #1 thing to consider when shopping for a rig:

BUY WHAT YOU WANT TO FLY NOW AND QUIT TRYING TO PREDICT THE FUTURE!

Excellent advice. It might take a bit of effort but you can find used rigs that fit/have the size and type canopy you've decided is best for you right now. And like Bonnie said the resale value on rigs with 170 - 210 mains is very good and those rigs tend to sell very quickly - primarily because those are the sizes that most new jumpers will be looking for.

[amir1967 0]

How much do you will be loading that vengeance

AM67

[jkwon 0]

OH i didn't buy this because I thought I'd be jumping a 150 vengeance in 100 jumps. I bought it because the deal was amazing. This doctor bought a customized rig and put 20 jumps on it and then left the sport after that. So he's selling this rig for dirt cheap just to get rid of it and cut his losses.

I didn't even think that I would fly the 150 my only thought was whether or not i should sell it or keep it for later use.

But i agree with you. Can't predict the future, and you don't want to hurt yourself trying to.

--joe

--joe
HISPA #69
The Best Band in the WORLD!!!
The new full length album "See What You Can Find"

[jkwon 0]

Lets see its a 150 and my exit weight is 190. 1.27:1

--joe
HISPA #69
The Best Band in the WORLD!!!
The new full length album "See What You Can Find"

[Andrewwhyte 1]

If it was a good deal then it was a good deal. However, if you aren't going to be jumping it any time soon, sell it. Parachute gear never appreciates in price.

[AFFI 0]

Think Wing Loading - is pointless to discuss canopy sizes without mentioning Wing Loadings. Combine that with your experience and currency level and add a pinch of reckless abandon and walla! You have what you get based on your decisions – might be a great swoop, an exposed femur or worse. Remember, there is a fine line between prodigy and statistic in our sport. Let’s spend the rest of our lives skydiving and not in a wheelchair or coffin. TAKE YOUR TIME! What is the hurry to get “badass”?

AFF-I

[kallend 2,106]

Jump #38, Stiletto 150

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[murps2000 86]

1st elliptical jump was #242 on a Stiletto 170 at about 1.4 WL. I was impressed. Stayed on a Spectre 190 at 1.2 till #440 when I bought the Stiletto.

I believe the Vengeance is somewhat of an aggressively trimmed elliptical. It is a great canopy, and fun to fly in experienced hands, but it can be challenging to the novice. I'm hearing lately that it will no longer be produced, so I think it may depreciate whether you jump it or not. I would recommend you sell it and go for the Spectre, which is an excellent design for learning essential survival skills under canopy. If you want a 150 elliptical later, you'll be able to find another good deal.

[Unstable 9]

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I went elliptical at about 150 jumps, bought one (Heatwave) at 200 jumps, spent the next 600 jumps having to learn how to really fly it. Man I got lucky

Aggie,

I am not an instructor (yet) and I'm still learning how to fly my Sabre2 at 1.35, but those numbers you put up there seem pretty radical....... Please do not that this offensivly or the wrong way, but do you consider yourself luckey that you didn't seriously hurt yourself going so fast? Did you think that you could handle that at the time? Are there jumpers you know that could handle that at those numbers?
No offense please, I mean this in the best way possible and I'm trying dang hard not to sound condescending...

Blue Skies,

=========Shaun ==========

[Unstable 9]

BTW, to answer the question, my first was jump number 125, a Firebolt 164 at WFFC.... I'll be real honest with you, when I was loading it at 1.2ish, it didn't seems much more zippy than a Sabre2.... Easier to land too, IMO.

=========Shaun ==========

[testpilot 0]

My first canopy was and still is a Heatwave 170. I jumped it from about 60 jumps and load it to around 1.2, I have about 100 jumps on it now. An elliptical canopy will teach a newbie quite a lot about canopy control most jumpers only start learning after 200 jumps. The first is flat turns, the elliptical seems very touchy those first few jumps and flat turns become a survival skill. The second is straight landings, you won’t want to have to turn under 50ft for the first 20 landings, and I must add that ellipticals have softer landings. No matter how the skydive went, pull time is fun time. Just remember there is only one word you need to learn in skydiving ……

Respect

And remember to speak to an instructor that knows your level of experience under a wing.

Dave
D830
http://www.skydiving.co.za

[kosanke 0]

My two cents worth. I just went to a Stiletto 150 at around 400 jumps. I progressed from a pd210 for 100. spectre 170 for 200. spectre 150 for 100. Going to a veng 150 at 52 is imho nuts. with 50 you are just learning to pack. a bad pack on a spectre will give you some trouble, but a bad pack on a veng will take you for a ride you might not have the experience to deal with. The spectre is forgving in the pattern but if you fly a veng like a spectre you will find yourself in an area you don't want to be. slow down and be safe.

[Designer 0]

Right after I started working for Air Time Designs(Feb 96)Jedei 120.Was "Extremely" nervous!

[jkwon 0]

Thank you all for your input it really is invaluable for me to learn what others out there think. Being new to the sport I always try to find the opinion of the more experienced divers before making a decision such as this. I never planned on jumping the 150 vengeance I just wanted to see where people jumped their first elliptical to get a judgement of whether or not I should keep the 150 or sell it and buy a spectre 170...OR...keep it AND buy a spectre 170. From what I'm hearing...the vengeance is a fun canopy and they are no longer going to be produced and it's not gaining value as nothing is nowadays. So the dilema was just whether or not I would benefit from keeping it. But looking back at it all this is how I see it. I probably won't be jumping this canopy at least for another year....and by then I may have changed my direction of concentration in the sport and won't even want an elliptical...With that being said, and ya'll personal opinions, i'm PROBABLY going to sell it rather than keep it around waiting to jump it.

My final question is this. Some people have said I should take one jump on it and see how I like it. No low turns just a high opening, straigh pattern landing, and see how I like it. What do you guys think? Is that a big risk?

--joe
HISPA #69
The Best Band in the WORLD!!!
The new full length album "See What You Can Find"

[Antithesis 0]

It only takes one jump for something to go horribly wrong...

if it's not what you'r interested in or ready for in the first place... why take the unnecesary risk involved. I have friends that want to jump my canopy with out the skills or experience but I don't want their blood on it.. Even if they Might be alright in a normal landing.

I travel the land, Work in the ocean, Play in the sky

[kosanke 0]

ask your dzo if he has first jump students open at 10 thousand because it is safer. have you ever dealt with line twists, spininng mal, off heading openings. these are some of the problems you might face. I'm not saying to sell the veng. I kept my spectre 150 because there are times i feel i need to step back. like a long winter layoff and i need to get current. downsize slowly and get proper instruction from the numerous canopy schools. you will find that landing a smaller canopy or ellipical will take a different technique. have fun,be safe

[jkwon 0]

Great advice. I agree it only takes one poor jump to get you hurt/.

Judgement time.

--joe
HISPA #69
The Best Band in the WORLD!!!
The new full length album "See What You Can Find"

[billvon 3,063]

>Some people have said I should take one jump on it and see how I like it.

99% of the time, in my experience, this ends up in you using the canopy for a long time. The reasoning goes like this:

Jump 1 - I'll be really, really careful, and only jump under perfect conditions, and open high.

Jump 2 - That was really fun! And if I do one more jump, then I know the conditions are perfect, and this time I'll nail the landing. Then I'll get a better feel for the canopy.

Jump 3 - Hey, I had two stand up landings under this canopy; I'll put a few more jumps on it and be _really_ careful.

Jump 6 - Yeah, the winds aren't perfect, but I've got five jumps on the canopy, and it would take an hour to swap canopies in my rig.

I've seen several friends of mine go through exactly the same reasoning. Decide if can safely jump the canopy. If you can, then do so, and learn how to fly it well. If not, don't jump it.

[Garycal 0]

I went to a diablo 190 at about 75 jumps I am still learning how to fly it and land it , Also I have it loaded pretty light 0.945 .If you do go to a elliptical canopy read all you can about them and ask a lot of questions . Open high and play with it.

[jkwon 0]

I've decided to sell the canopy and buy a sabre2 170...Anyone need a vengeance 150 with 20 jumps on it?

--joe

I Have an ad up in the classifieds if you do.

--joe
HISPA #69
The Best Band in the WORLD!!!
The new full length album "See What You Can Find"

[DancingFlame 0]

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depends on the canopy...
for example, the Omni from Icarus is a 7cell elliptical... Not radically, not high aspect ratio... but still elliptical...

Well, I would say Omni, Safire, Sabre etc. are kind of rectangular canopies.
Under 'elliptical' I understand 'fully elliptical' ones, like Stiletto, Crossfire, Cobalt.
My instructor says sometimes it much safer to downsize than to go elliptical. Downsizing affects speed when going elliptical affects turn rate and canopy dives. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from I saw, most incidents happen when canopy cannot go out of dive.