kelel01 1 #1 April 6, 2005 A few qualifiers/disclaimers . . . If the name of it could just be a nuisance (like a brake fire), assume that it's progressed into a full-on malfunction. I purposely did NOT include canopy wraps and entanglements. I want to see your opinion on malfunctions including gear only, not an additional human component. The real question is: Which one is the most dangerous or often fatal? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #2 April 6, 2005 I voted "Horseshoe" but I believe any sort of high speed mal is the worst kind (not that I have any experience with a high speed mals ... and I hope to never have experience with high speed mals). Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZegeunerLeben 0 #3 April 6, 2005 >>I'd say bag-lock. It puts you into a standing position and and your fall rate picks dramatically, giving you less time to hit the handles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcusr 0 #4 April 6, 2005 i totally fear the horseshoe. i fear that even after cutting away, the pc in the pouch will keep the bag above your head and wrapping with your reserve marcus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djd 0 #5 April 6, 2005 id say any you dont get up from Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZegeunerLeben 0 #6 April 6, 2005 >>Heh, yeah...any landing you can limp away from, still hurts! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casurf1978 0 #7 April 6, 2005 I'm on the same page with you. I had a nightmare the other night about a horseshoe, choped it fine but then the reserve turned into a streamer. It was so damn vivid too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #8 April 6, 2005 while any high speed mal is fairly dangerous, because their is less time to deal with it, horseshoes are the worst mal IMO. if you can't get the canopy off of you or your gear before you pull reserve, you have a big risk that it might entangle with your reserve. another one that worries the hell outta me, even though its not common, is when the main somehow catches on the reserve container while deploying. I've heard about reserve containers being torn off, or people dieing from this. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #9 April 6, 2005 Quotewhen the main somehow catches on the reserve container while deploying. Thats a horse shoe too, well, unless it just plain rips off the snag. A horse shoe is when any part or the main is touching you (appart for the risers at the 3 ring of course).Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #10 April 6, 2005 I honestly had horseshoe in mind as the worst, but someone else I spoke with said two-out was their worst nightmare. I just wanted to see what everyone else thought. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyangel2 2 #11 April 6, 2005 QuoteI believe any sort of high speed mal is the worst kind I've had both, and please don't give me a high speed again. The time goes way too fast.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Darius11 12 #12 April 6, 2005 I don't know a double mal would really suckI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Superman32 0 #13 April 6, 2005 So far, horseshoe is the clear winner. I'm too new to know anything, but the horseshoe scares the poop out of me Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bch7773 0 #14 April 6, 2005 QuoteQuotewhen the main somehow catches on the reserve container while deploying. Thats a horse shoe too, well, unless it just plain rips off the snag. A horse shoe is when any part or the main is touching you (appart for the risers at the 3 ring of course). yeah I mean when the main catches the container as its being deployed, and rips off or tears up the container. I'm not sure what it would be called MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cvfd1399 0 #15 April 6, 2005 I think the worst would be a horseshoe with a reserve lineover, or severe twists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites markd_nscr986 0 #16 April 6, 2005 Total mal (2 of them) high speed so they burn a LOT of time A line over on a starlite.... slow spinning but lethal descent rate ( everyone else on the load was yelling encouragement"your gonna die....... cut away" etc.) and a Stratostar steering line "wad of shit" 3 cells inflated 2 cells flapping like a flag good spin rate but not dropping like a rock....... I guess the worst mal would be the one you wouldnt walk away fromMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jimmytavino 16 #17 April 6, 2005 I agree with Horseshoe..... and would like to elaborate,,, that you can have two kinds of horseshoe One where the canopy gets outta the bag,,,, and one where the bag gets outta your container,, but two or more locking stows fail to extract....and so the canopy does NOT get out of the bag... ... Remember .. if the pilot chute is trapped or snagged... there may not enough drag above you to open the bag... Then you're horseshoed,,,and Locked.., and you're going FAST.... a loooong time ago I had just that,,, on a rig which had a hand deploy on the bellyband.. I threw out my pilot chute,, and was immediately put head down and feet down.... ( hung from my waist) and was spinning.... I had inadvertantly twisted the bellyband harness while donning my rig... and failed to notice it before we exited.... The bridle pulled sheer, through the harness and popped the pin and so my main d bag got out....... Only not alll the lines stows released....so i was locked... Whoa..... I took a quick look at the ground and saw I was right over the pea gravel.... Only it was about the size I was used to seeing as I was setting up my accuracy final...... I resisted the urge to pull my reserve ripcord while I was spinning and arched real hard.... I got square in the air,, and I FELT the main D Bag come down and hit me on the back of my thighs....... THEN.. I thought,, "we should have clear air, above us right NOW!!!!".. and fired my reserve....I was using a piggyback rig, with the reserve on my shoulders.. This was pre- cypres,,, pre ram air reserves and pre- reserve ripcord D handles,,,, I had an old style "blast handle". which I blasted.!!! The 26 foot Strong Lopo opened clean around 600 feet... and I stood it up near the peas.......I was damn lucky..... And so friends,,,,, I call tell you from experience... Horseshoe/Bag Lock... is BAD news......... Fortunately gear improvements have reduced the likelihood of such events.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites adamsr 0 #18 April 7, 2005 Quoteanother one that worries the hell outta me, even though its not common, is when the main somehow catches on the reserve container while deploying. I've heard about reserve containers being torn off, or people dieing from this. I voted horeshoe, but i've been shown pictures of a rig (or what was left of it) after a premature main opening while in a stand, ripped the rig to shreads, ripped the reserve tray off, and even completely snapped the main riser in half where it was caught on the reserve tray. was a real advert for only freeflying in ff safe rigs, plus if the rig had had a thin chest strap (type 17 i think) i doubt the skydiver would have lived to tell the tale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RfukfreeflyingW 0 #19 April 7, 2005 I'm confused it ripped the reserve tray out, and the main and its risers to shreds? and the chest strap saved his life? maybe I just read that wrong...---- -God, you are the perfect amount of dumb... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #20 April 7, 2005 I've seen similar. Premature deployment while in the recovery position during a sit jump. On deployment, the d-bag+risers ripped the reserve container loose - it was held on solely by the stitching between the shoulder blades. The grommets in the main risers were dented by the 3-rings and the end of the cutaway cable housing. One of the cutaway cables was kinked by the force of the opening, and would possibly have prevented a cutaway. Fortunately the main canopy was undamaged. The jumper escaped with lots of brusing and a good story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #21 April 7, 2005 How about a bag lock on the reserve? I think that would be the worst. Other than that, I vote horse shoe, then pilot chute in tow. Both are definite wild cards. I've got more than a dozen reserve rides, but they have all been run of the mill, easy cutaways and totals, all nice and stabel deployments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWPoul 1 #22 April 7, 2005 Quote...I want to see your opinion on malfunctions including gear only, not an additional human component. The real question is: Which one is the most dangerous or often fatal? Vote for other - broken/wrong routed leg's strap (or other harness mal's) which makes the rest of your free fall trully free...without your rig anymore. May be it isn't worst of mal's, but most likely fatal...Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanglesOZQld 0 #23 April 7, 2005 I would have to say horseshoe definitely. Have been in freefall with the pin popping in a sit train from the guy behind and wondered what the hell that black bulk was with the lines coming out of it!!!! The other guy said the look on my face was priceless as I caught it, threw it to one side and threw my pilot chute! Was lucky the lines stayed on the bag and didn't get involved with my person. Was still a reserve ride though as the pilot chute bridle bow tyed the centre of the canopy. The dangling incident was pretty horrible as well as we were in a situation where if not for the assistance of someone else were rendered helpless!! BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Balls 0 #24 April 7, 2005 I'd say horseshoe as well. Freaks me out man.---------------------------------------- ....so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #25 April 7, 2005 Quote The real question is: Which one is the most dangerous or often fatal? PC in tow. For those of you scared about a horseshoe... pull stable. If it's a container open, throw the PC first and see if it clears. How often do you hear about horseshoes? How often do you hear about PC in tow? I've had 18 cutaways. 7 from wraps and entanglements in a CRW rotation team. The remaining 11 have been broken lines, pressure knots, a line over, a PC in tow, a baglock. (on a tandem) No malfunction is less risky than another. If you're going to rush, rush the desision, but not the action. Do it right. You only get 1 chance. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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flyangel2 2 #11 April 6, 2005 QuoteI believe any sort of high speed mal is the worst kind I've had both, and please don't give me a high speed again. The time goes way too fast.May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #12 April 6, 2005 I don't know a double mal would really suckI'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #13 April 6, 2005 So far, horseshoe is the clear winner. I'm too new to know anything, but the horseshoe scares the poop out of me Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #14 April 6, 2005 QuoteQuotewhen the main somehow catches on the reserve container while deploying. Thats a horse shoe too, well, unless it just plain rips off the snag. A horse shoe is when any part or the main is touching you (appart for the risers at the 3 ring of course). yeah I mean when the main catches the container as its being deployed, and rips off or tears up the container. I'm not sure what it would be called MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #15 April 6, 2005 I think the worst would be a horseshoe with a reserve lineover, or severe twists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markd_nscr986 0 #16 April 6, 2005 Total mal (2 of them) high speed so they burn a LOT of time A line over on a starlite.... slow spinning but lethal descent rate ( everyone else on the load was yelling encouragement"your gonna die....... cut away" etc.) and a Stratostar steering line "wad of shit" 3 cells inflated 2 cells flapping like a flag good spin rate but not dropping like a rock....... I guess the worst mal would be the one you wouldnt walk away fromMarc SCR 6046 SCS 3004 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #17 April 6, 2005 I agree with Horseshoe..... and would like to elaborate,,, that you can have two kinds of horseshoe One where the canopy gets outta the bag,,,, and one where the bag gets outta your container,, but two or more locking stows fail to extract....and so the canopy does NOT get out of the bag... ... Remember .. if the pilot chute is trapped or snagged... there may not enough drag above you to open the bag... Then you're horseshoed,,,and Locked.., and you're going FAST.... a loooong time ago I had just that,,, on a rig which had a hand deploy on the bellyband.. I threw out my pilot chute,, and was immediately put head down and feet down.... ( hung from my waist) and was spinning.... I had inadvertantly twisted the bellyband harness while donning my rig... and failed to notice it before we exited.... The bridle pulled sheer, through the harness and popped the pin and so my main d bag got out....... Only not alll the lines stows released....so i was locked... Whoa..... I took a quick look at the ground and saw I was right over the pea gravel.... Only it was about the size I was used to seeing as I was setting up my accuracy final...... I resisted the urge to pull my reserve ripcord while I was spinning and arched real hard.... I got square in the air,, and I FELT the main D Bag come down and hit me on the back of my thighs....... THEN.. I thought,, "we should have clear air, above us right NOW!!!!".. and fired my reserve....I was using a piggyback rig, with the reserve on my shoulders.. This was pre- cypres,,, pre ram air reserves and pre- reserve ripcord D handles,,,, I had an old style "blast handle". which I blasted.!!! The 26 foot Strong Lopo opened clean around 600 feet... and I stood it up near the peas.......I was damn lucky..... And so friends,,,,, I call tell you from experience... Horseshoe/Bag Lock... is BAD news......... Fortunately gear improvements have reduced the likelihood of such events.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites adamsr 0 #18 April 7, 2005 Quoteanother one that worries the hell outta me, even though its not common, is when the main somehow catches on the reserve container while deploying. I've heard about reserve containers being torn off, or people dieing from this. I voted horeshoe, but i've been shown pictures of a rig (or what was left of it) after a premature main opening while in a stand, ripped the rig to shreads, ripped the reserve tray off, and even completely snapped the main riser in half where it was caught on the reserve tray. was a real advert for only freeflying in ff safe rigs, plus if the rig had had a thin chest strap (type 17 i think) i doubt the skydiver would have lived to tell the tale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RfukfreeflyingW 0 #19 April 7, 2005 I'm confused it ripped the reserve tray out, and the main and its risers to shreds? and the chest strap saved his life? maybe I just read that wrong...---- -God, you are the perfect amount of dumb... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bob.dino 1 #20 April 7, 2005 I've seen similar. Premature deployment while in the recovery position during a sit jump. On deployment, the d-bag+risers ripped the reserve container loose - it was held on solely by the stitching between the shoulder blades. The grommets in the main risers were dented by the 3-rings and the end of the cutaway cable housing. One of the cutaway cables was kinked by the force of the opening, and would possibly have prevented a cutaway. Fortunately the main canopy was undamaged. The jumper escaped with lots of brusing and a good story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 16 #21 April 7, 2005 How about a bag lock on the reserve? I think that would be the worst. Other than that, I vote horse shoe, then pilot chute in tow. Both are definite wild cards. I've got more than a dozen reserve rides, but they have all been run of the mill, easy cutaways and totals, all nice and stabel deployments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWPoul 1 #22 April 7, 2005 Quote...I want to see your opinion on malfunctions including gear only, not an additional human component. The real question is: Which one is the most dangerous or often fatal? Vote for other - broken/wrong routed leg's strap (or other harness mal's) which makes the rest of your free fall trully free...without your rig anymore. May be it isn't worst of mal's, but most likely fatal...Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DanglesOZQld 0 #23 April 7, 2005 I would have to say horseshoe definitely. Have been in freefall with the pin popping in a sit train from the guy behind and wondered what the hell that black bulk was with the lines coming out of it!!!! The other guy said the look on my face was priceless as I caught it, threw it to one side and threw my pilot chute! Was lucky the lines stayed on the bag and didn't get involved with my person. Was still a reserve ride though as the pilot chute bridle bow tyed the centre of the canopy. The dangling incident was pretty horrible as well as we were in a situation where if not for the assistance of someone else were rendered helpless!! BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Balls 0 #24 April 7, 2005 I'd say horseshoe as well. Freaks me out man.---------------------------------------- ....so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #25 April 7, 2005 Quote The real question is: Which one is the most dangerous or often fatal? PC in tow. For those of you scared about a horseshoe... pull stable. If it's a container open, throw the PC first and see if it clears. How often do you hear about horseshoes? How often do you hear about PC in tow? I've had 18 cutaways. 7 from wraps and entanglements in a CRW rotation team. The remaining 11 have been broken lines, pressure knots, a line over, a PC in tow, a baglock. (on a tandem) No malfunction is less risky than another. If you're going to rush, rush the desision, but not the action. Do it right. You only get 1 chance. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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adamsr 0 #18 April 7, 2005 Quoteanother one that worries the hell outta me, even though its not common, is when the main somehow catches on the reserve container while deploying. I've heard about reserve containers being torn off, or people dieing from this. I voted horeshoe, but i've been shown pictures of a rig (or what was left of it) after a premature main opening while in a stand, ripped the rig to shreads, ripped the reserve tray off, and even completely snapped the main riser in half where it was caught on the reserve tray. was a real advert for only freeflying in ff safe rigs, plus if the rig had had a thin chest strap (type 17 i think) i doubt the skydiver would have lived to tell the tale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RfukfreeflyingW 0 #19 April 7, 2005 I'm confused it ripped the reserve tray out, and the main and its risers to shreds? and the chest strap saved his life? maybe I just read that wrong...---- -God, you are the perfect amount of dumb... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #20 April 7, 2005 I've seen similar. Premature deployment while in the recovery position during a sit jump. On deployment, the d-bag+risers ripped the reserve container loose - it was held on solely by the stitching between the shoulder blades. The grommets in the main risers were dented by the 3-rings and the end of the cutaway cable housing. One of the cutaway cables was kinked by the force of the opening, and would possibly have prevented a cutaway. Fortunately the main canopy was undamaged. The jumper escaped with lots of brusing and a good story. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #21 April 7, 2005 How about a bag lock on the reserve? I think that would be the worst. Other than that, I vote horse shoe, then pilot chute in tow. Both are definite wild cards. I've got more than a dozen reserve rides, but they have all been run of the mill, easy cutaways and totals, all nice and stabel deployments. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #22 April 7, 2005 Quote...I want to see your opinion on malfunctions including gear only, not an additional human component. The real question is: Which one is the most dangerous or often fatal? Vote for other - broken/wrong routed leg's strap (or other harness mal's) which makes the rest of your free fall trully free...without your rig anymore. May be it isn't worst of mal's, but most likely fatal...Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanglesOZQld 0 #23 April 7, 2005 I would have to say horseshoe definitely. Have been in freefall with the pin popping in a sit train from the guy behind and wondered what the hell that black bulk was with the lines coming out of it!!!! The other guy said the look on my face was priceless as I caught it, threw it to one side and threw my pilot chute! Was lucky the lines stayed on the bag and didn't get involved with my person. Was still a reserve ride though as the pilot chute bridle bow tyed the centre of the canopy. The dangling incident was pretty horrible as well as we were in a situation where if not for the assistance of someone else were rendered helpless!! BSBD! -Mark. "A Scar is just a Tattoo with a story!!!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Balls 0 #24 April 7, 2005 I'd say horseshoe as well. Freaks me out man.---------------------------------------- ....so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who knew neither victory nor defeat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #25 April 7, 2005 Quote The real question is: Which one is the most dangerous or often fatal? PC in tow. For those of you scared about a horseshoe... pull stable. If it's a container open, throw the PC first and see if it clears. How often do you hear about horseshoes? How often do you hear about PC in tow? I've had 18 cutaways. 7 from wraps and entanglements in a CRW rotation team. The remaining 11 have been broken lines, pressure knots, a line over, a PC in tow, a baglock. (on a tandem) No malfunction is less risky than another. If you're going to rush, rush the desision, but not the action. Do it right. You only get 1 chance. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
