Is tandem hurting our sport?

[airdvr 210]

Just finished reading Mike's editorial in the latest issue of Skydiving. He puts forth the idea that alot of DZO's aren't working hard enough to "grow" the base of new jumper's, preferring to cater to the tandem business instead.

I tend to agree and would like to add another thought: tandem gives alot of first timer's sensory overload to the point of not wanting to try it again. I watched my GM nearly go into shock after her tandem. It was too much for her to take. I can say for sure she would never do it again.

So, is it hindering the growth? How did you make your first jump?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Ladybug 0]

Love it now, but I don't think I would have been able to jump the first time if I'd had to do it by myself. Also, tandem pulls in a lot of people who only "think" they'll be doing it once. I thought I was just going out for a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I've known others who went out for the same reason and got hooked as well.

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[Orange1 0]

I was the opposite - had done a number of tandem paragliding flights and this was something I WANTED to do by myself - didn't want to be a passenger anymore.
But, I do think tandems pull in a lot of people who wouldn't otherwise jump... And - more selfishly - aren't they the bread and butter of many DZs? Would we all be paying much more for our own jumps if there weren't any tandems?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[The111 1]

If the tandem was sensory overload for her, I don't see how any other way would have been better.

I went straight to AFF and have never done a tandem. I don't really see how tandem can do anything but add to the participants in our sport. I guess if it didn't exist, the "one time thrill seekers" would be forced to do an AFF L1 and then quit, but not everyone would do that, so I think we'd have less jumpers overall (both one-timers and extended participants).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[kcjumpersgirl 0]

I agree. I think a lot of people do tandems because the thought of jumping all by themselves is overwhelming. After they land safely on the ground, the thrill of it comes rushing in, and that is when they decide if they want to jump again or not.

I think a lot of first time s/l students never come back to jump a second time also. Cost is a deterrant, but also knowing you have to make a jump every 30 days is also overwhelming to some.

Tandems do have a way of weeding out those who are really serious about skydiving from those who just want to fun jump once.

[ChrisL 2]

I think it brings in people that not try it otherwise.
I think it helps the sport.

__

My mighty steed

[dunesurfer 0]

The sensory overload is much less severe with a Tandem jump than with AFF. If I had it to do over again, I would have chosen Tandem as my first jump. Besides, the Tandem jumps are the "bread and butter" of the dz. If it helps keep the dz open I am for it, so I vote no, Tandem is not hurting the sport.

[Jeth 0]

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Love it now, but I don't think I would have been able to jump the first time if I'd had to do it by myself. Also, tandem pulls in a lot of people who only "think" they'll be doing it once. I thought I was just going out for a once-in-a-lifetime experience. I've known others who went out for the same reason and got hooked as well.

Ditto here. It was supposed to be a once-in-a-lifetime thing, but here I am $3000 later....

I agree that its too bad a lot of DZO's just make tandem factories. But I wouldn't be here today if it wasn't for my tandem, so I have to say its a great way to do a first jump. And I know it brings a lot of money into DZ's and that helps them make nice facilities for fun jumpers.

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[kelel01 1]

I would never have jumped those first three times if they hadn't been tandems, and I'm still here.

And hey, tandems help the loads fly for us upjumpers! I'm not so sure I see anything bad about it. The only thing I don't like is that there are a few DZ's that ONLY fly tandems, and I think that's weird.

[jonstark 8]

Tandem is a huge boon for the sport of skydiving and will continue to be one.

That said... Tandem is barely to be considered much more than a thrill ride. As a part of the student progression it is little more than a way to feel out those that would be interested in continuing on with AFF.

If a tandem pax is overwhelmed by the experience then they surely would be a difficult student to get trained in another form. Let them wash out.

A large effort should be made to retain those identified as potential AFF candidates. Tandem pax that did well should be encouraged to go to the next step to enter the sport. Maybe a coach of sorts could take the just landed pax and brief them on what to do next and how to sign up.

Hook 'em with tandem, reel 'em in with AFF, grow 'em with coaching and keep 'em with friendship.

[BIGUN 1,297]

Any form of exposure to our sport isn't hurting it. Tandem provides an opportunity for those who would be marginal towards the other methods of entry to have an opportunity to experience skydving.

AFP has an 85% retention ratio. I know of one person who did 13 tandems before moving on to becoming a student. Had she not had the opportunity to "work" at it in her own pace and way with Tandems, she probably would have never jumped at all.

There is a quote attributed to Bill Dause, but I'm unsure if it's true, but it goes, "If tandem had come along before AFF, there would be no AFF." Whether he said it or not, it's been my experience that it's true.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[JohnMitchell 16]

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. I watched my GM nearly go into shock after her tandem. It was too much for her to take. I can say for sure she would never do it again.

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I would guess your Grandmother would have really overloaded and then gotten injured if she had done a solo jump, either static line or AFF. In fact, many, many people I take on tandems would never, and some could never, have gone by themselves. It's always been that a only a small percentage of first time jumpers go on to make even a second jump. With tandem, our "net" is picking up people who would have never even made one jump.

With that said, I have never worked at a "Tandem factory."

[Remster 30]

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tandem gives alot of first timer's sensory overload to the point of not wanting to try it again

Compared to what? A 1st jump as AFF? Probably not... I'd bet the sensory overload is larger with the AFF.

A IAD pr SL? Them probably, you are right... Though I persoannly dont remember much of my 1st 5 seconds of that jump either! lol

I think Tandem makes it easier for operators to rely on non-repeat business to turn a short term profit. I think there is a huge potential gain in retaining a few more jumpers that get exposed to the sport through it, but that takes more work.

Remster

[tdog 0]

Tandems help DZs pay the bills... You gotta respect that. Now, some DZs are better at others in finding a good ratio of fun jumpers to tandems...


Everyone I know who did a tandem 'wants' to skydive more... Money, time, desire, etc - makes them say no...

I have watched one tandem master at our DZ. After the tandem, if he finds out they liked it, he immediately introduces them to the AFF program, takes them into the classroom and shows them the learning aids used in the first jump course, and promises them that he would be with them on their first AFF jump! It seems he makes each tandem a working tandem, as he teaches the passenger things like looking at the canopy to inspect it after opening, allows the student to fly the canopy, etc… It is not a true working tandem jump unless the student asks for it, but he really tries to convince the prospective that if they come back they will be ready for the next step.

It is all in how the TM treats the customer IMHO. Does the TM treat them like a amusement park ride or does the TM treat the customer like a new skydiver and teach them along the way?

[mailin 0]

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I have watched one tandem master at our DZ. After the tandem, if he finds out they liked it, he immediately introduces them to the AFF program, takes them into the classroom and shows them the learning aids used in the first jump course, and promises them that he would be with them on their first AFF jump! It seems he makes each tandem a working tandem, as he teaches the passenger things like looking at the canopy to inspect it after opening, allows the student to fly the canopy, etc… It is not a true working tandem jump unless the student asks for it, but he really tries to convince the prospective that if they come back they will be ready for the next step.

Very admirable!

I wish someone had done that with me after my first tandem. I guess my saying "Wow! That was cool I wanna do it again and again and again!" wasn't enough for anyone there to give me any info on FJC.

Oh well, their loss Doubt I'll be going back any time soon to do fun jumps

Jen

Arianna Frances

[skybytch 273]

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It is all in how the TM treats the customer IMHO. Does the TM treat them like a amusement park ride or does the TM treat the customer like a new skydiver and teach them along the way?

A TM can treat them like a new skydiver and try to teach them but the passenger has to want to be a student if they're gonna learn anything.

Want to see more tandems come back to do AFF? Talk to them. Include them in your high fives on the airplane. Find them after the jump and ask what they thought. If they ask questions, answer them (or take them to the person who can answer them). If something fun is happening at the dz that evening, invite them. Make them feel welcome in "our" world, show them that we're the same kind of people they are and more of them will think they can be a part of it.

[huka551 0]

I did 7 tandems before groundschool. I didn't have enough money to comply with the 'jump once every 30 days' criteria until I finished AFF. Tandems were fun for me (doing unstable exits, turns, forward motion, and canopy control, not to mention exposure to freefall) After my first tandem I wasn't really sure, it took about an hour after I got home for my brain to catch up, so I decided to try it again (dive flow) and since then I've wanted nothing more then to jump. I did groundschool at the end of the season and level 1, then squeaked in another tandem just for fun before the season ended! Finished AFF like 3 weeks ago, and hungry for more! Tandems truley help the sport! IMO

Muff Brother 3723

[peek 21]

Tandem jumping _in general_ is devastating our sport. Anyone that has been around a while and has thought objectively about it easily comes to that conclusion.

Done well, tandem skydiving could have been a great thing, and at times still is. But most of the time it is treated as a good excuse to not give good instruction. Calling a Tandem student a "passenger" is proof enough of that isn't it?

I absolutely _love_ teaching and jumping with Tandem students who thought they couldn't do it by themselves because they were afraid. By the time I am through with them I have shown them just how much they _can_ do. It's incredibly fulfilling, good for the sport, and why I put so much effort into it.

But finding Tandem Instructors with that atitude is difficult now, and finding DZO's that don't just give up on training and herd them through like cash cows is even more difficult.

(It's also difficult for the Instructor that wants to train well but is not given the time to do so, or is so tired from the large numbers of Tandem jumps they do that they lose the desire to train well.)

(Of course some of you are great Tandem Instructors and DZO's! I'm talking about the others.)

[carbonezone 0]

I think Tandem is great for our sport. It's a wonderful introduction to skydiving. The key to student retention is instructor interaction. Tandem students should be informed and motivated that their tandem is actually their first step towards becoming a licensed skydiver. They should be given the opportunity to deploy and steer the canopy. A log (even if it’s a single piece of paper) of their first jump should be provided by the instructor. Of course some people don’t care about all that stuff but for the most part you can usually tell when we have the attention of a future skydiver. I know this takes more time of the instructors but it’s worth it. I also think that an incentive program (compensation) for the instructors is well deserving when they get a first time jumper to enroll in FJC or Jump again.
I always feel out tandems with that gleam in their eyes and inform them of their options. It’s also good to comfort them and make them feel welcome on the ground and in the plane. You all know that ATMOSHERE at a dropzone is HUGE!
I myself drove 2 hours to do my first tandem at dropzone (a) instead of 20 minutes to dropzone (b). WHY you ask? It’s simple……the person that I called seeking info at Dropzone (b) was not very friendly and made it seem like I was taking up to much of his time “even though I had a group of 12 people”. I searched and found dropzone (a) and the person I talked to was AWESOME he made me feel like a truly valued customer and we also had a ton of fun on the phone. Needless to say myself and 11 of my friends drove 2 hours to skydive. I am very happy that I did because had I gone to dropzone (b) I don’t think I would have had as much fun and I truly believe I wouldn’t be skydiving today. THANKS MIKE and DONNA GAUGER AND SKYDIVE TOLEDO IN WASHINGTON I WILL ALWAYS CALL YOU MY HOME !
What I am trying to say is that WE can ALL play a BIG part in retaining students.
<>
Tami

[OnYourBack 0]

I understand the fulfillment of taking a student who was too afraid to do it in the beginning and working with them and how that can be helpful to the sport. You don't really explain why the "passenger" aspect of tandem is "devastating" though. Could you elaborate on why?

[Jeth 0]

I also like the TM's a lot better who treat it as a "student" versus a "passenger". My DZ does do "working tandems" in that they teach about correct body position, how to read an altimeter, how to wave and pull, and correct in-plane procedures right from the first one. On the second one you have more control over the exit and you must wave and pull, and help with the canopy flight in order to get into the AFP program.
But even with all that, they are plenty happy if you just went for the ride and don't care about learning further. They don't really encourage AFP, but you are informed about it. And some TM's are better teachers than others. You can tell some of them are just in it for the money and just want to do as many jumps as possible and don't care about teaching anybody anything. On my 2nd tandem, the TM I had could've cared less that I wanted to go into AFP. I was asking him a lot of questions when we were under canopy and on final and he just said "you'll figure it out." (It kinda pissed me off. ) I think it pissed me off more cuz they require 2 tandems before AFP, so then I thought he should've taken it more as a training jump than just another passenger.

But I definitely think it is a great introduction to the sky and I know I would not have taken up this sport if I had to go it solo on my first one.

"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters."
PFRX!!!!!
Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109
My Jump Site

[jlmiracle 7]

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tandem gives alot of first timer's sensory overload to the point of not wanting to try it again. I watched my GM nearly go into shock after her tandem. It was too much for her to take. I can say for sure she would never do it again.

Do you think doing AFF - having to fly the parachute all by yourself is a better first jump.

Skydiving is not for everyone.

Tandems are a great way to see if they are interested in pursing skydiving.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[bigorangemd 0]

I was always "interested" in skydiving and had been to the DZ several times to watch, but I had no understanding of what it was really like. I decided to try a tandem with the thought I MIGHT continue to jump. The moment I exited the aircraft, I knew I was hooked for life. People asked what my first thought was when I got back on the ground and it was "crap I gotta get back up there NOW!" The only thing that prevented me from slapping down the money and going right back was that I wanted to save it for the AFF. I switched my work schedule around that day so I could be off the night they offered ground school, and I was off. Though I had the thought I might like the sport, it was the tandem that hooked me. It added at least one jumper to the sport that day!

[riggerrob 643]

There is a quote attributed to Bill Dause, but I'm unsure if it's true, but it goes, "If tandem had come along before AFF, there would be no AFF."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A decade ago, Don Balch - DZO of Hemet, California -told me:"If tandem had been invented a couple of years earlier, USPA would never have approved AFF."
... two long-time Southern California DZOs saying the same thing.

[Hummusx 0]

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There is a quote attributed to Bill Dause, but I'm unsure if it's true, but it goes, "If tandem had come along before AFF, there would be no AFF."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

A decade ago, Don Balch - DZO of Hemet, California -told me:"If tandem had been invented a couple of years earlier, USPA would never have approved AFF."
... two long-time Southern California DZOs saying the same thing.

Not to be knuckleheaded here, but could someone explain the quotes? How is the tandem invention time related to AFF?

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