tattoojeff 0 #1 March 29, 2004 if you had an un-inflated pc in tow and reached back and pulled the pin by hand is there a chance the force wouldnt be enough to open the riser covers. if so that could be an unchoppable ball of shit if theres not enough pull by the failing pc to extract the main from the bag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bosveld 0 #2 March 29, 2004 I don't really know if it would always be the same in every situation. I had a High speed malfunction once where the pilot chute was not cocked. That uncocked pilot chute was strong enough to pull the pin un-stow almost all the lines except for the last ones holding the bag closed. They were double stowed and that's where the opening stopped. My risers were out though and I luckily had no problem chopping. Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, will be true! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #3 March 29, 2004 You don't know for sure that the only reason it's towing is the uninflated PC. Why waste part of you last 8 seconds to live manually pulling a pin that might create a horseshoe if the bridle is twisted or caught somewhere else? I watched this happen in Richmond about 93 or so. PC in tow, pulled the pin, created a spinning horseshoe mess. She fired her reserve into it. The round snaked through and opened. She was still ADDING line twist from the momentum when she landed uninjured. Less likely now but too many people die doing things that won't save their life. Yes, there might not be enough drag, or there might be. But since you don't know why it's towing I'd suggest not doing something that might make it worse.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #4 March 29, 2004 Quoteif you had an un-inflated pc in tow and reached back and pulled the pin by hand Why and When did this thought process occur?!?!? If you have a PC in tow and you reach your hand around; 1) you are taking a serious chance on your hand getting wrapped up in lines, thereby preventing you from using both hands for EPs, 2) Why spend precious time fumbling for something you can't see, that you should have seen prior to donning your gear, 3) This is not in any training methodology - anywhere. Review the video, "Breakaway." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tattoojeff 0 #5 March 30, 2004 the idea came from many places the most recent was last night looking through the saftey archives. a jumper succesfully pulled his pin during a pc in tow due to the bridle tangled the pc. it worked for him but i saw it more as a lesson on what not to do for many reasons including the good feed back from all whom responded to my q's. ive also heard jumpers claim this is what they would do to avoid the main coming out after the reserve is fired which is common. although this makes sense i feel it puts you at more risk than simply firing the reserve. thanks for the feed back Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #6 March 30, 2004 Quotethe most recent was last night looking through the saftey archives. a jumper succesfully pulled his pin during a pc in tow due to the bridle tangled the pc. it worked for him... He was lucky. Quotebut i saw it more as a lesson on what not to do for many reasons including... Excellent - Kudos to you!! Quoteive also heard jumpers claim this is what they would do to avoid the main coming out after the reserve is fired which is common. although this makes sense i feel it puts you at more risk than simply firing the reserve. well, if one cuts away the main as part of the EPs.... Even if you have a pilot chute in tow and do your normal right, left, arch... If the main does come out, its gone. If it doesn't you're gonna land with it. Last year, I was the organizer for the Skydive Tulsa C-182 most jumps in 12 hours (104). Exit was 2500, pull at 2000 for 12 hours. Only reserve ride was P/C in tow. He did his EPs SO FAST we could barely see cutaway first in the frame by frame on the video. He was in the saddle at 1200. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #7 March 30, 2004 QuoteEven if you have a pilot chute in tow and do your normal right, left, arch... If the main does come out, its gone. If it doesn't you're gonna land with it. Last year, I was the organizer for the Skydive Tulsa C-182 most jumps in 12 hours (104). Exit was 2500, pull at 2000 for 12 hours. Only reserve ride was P/C in tow. He did his EPs SO FAST we could barely see cutaway first in the frame by frame on the video. He was in the saddle at 1200. Not always. Sometimes it can entangle with the reserve and collapse it. This has killed more than one jumper. I'd rather deal with two out than deal with an entanglement I can't reach or control.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #8 March 30, 2004 DD, I'm not trying to be dense here. I've heard this more than once. Are we sure it was a P/C in tow and not a horseshoe? If it is a true P/C in tow and the main is cutaway, how is it getting wrapped in the reserve? I guess I'm needing pictures or sumpin. Are folks just firing the reserve and not cutting away at the same time the drag of the towed P/C wriggles the pin out? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverdriver 5 #9 March 30, 2004 QuoteDD, I'm not trying to be dense here. I've heard this more than once. Are we sure it was a P/C in tow and not a horseshoe? If it is a true P/C in tow and the main is cutaway, how is it getting wrapped in the reserve? I guess I'm needing pictures or sumpin. Are folks just firing the reserve and not cutting away at the same time the drag of the towed P/C wriggles the pin out? Oh no, I don't think you're dense. I've posted this particular case on several threads like this. We had a jumper (and I know this has happened to more than one jumper) they had a PC in tow and cutaway first. The reserve deploying loosened the rig and the main left the rig. But during deployment of the reserve you are coming straight down pretty much and now you have two flopping risers right by your deploying reserve. In this case the risers of the main grabbed the slider as it came down. The main came out of the bag and began to drag on the reserve. It drew the slider up the reserve partially collapsing it. The jumper was seriously injured and most feel he was lucky to live through it. Had the main deployed still attached then it would have been a two out situation which CAN be controlled mostly and much better than a main reserve entanglement.Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #10 March 30, 2004 OIC. OK, now I'm with you. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
