yoink 321 #1 March 25, 2004 A friend recently asked me a good question that got me thinking about the way rigs are constructed... Hypothetical: You're on the step and have a premature reserve opening. You're ok, but the reserve in your opinion is very marginally landable. You can land it, but will get hurt - no directional control, and a fastish rate of descent... What do you do? the three options I can see: 1) Stick with it and accept that it'll hurt, 2) Pull your main, possibly resulting in a tangled mess and an enen higher descent rate. The other side is having a controllable 2-out situation. 3) Chop the lines of your reserve above your risers to release it with your hook knife, and then pull your main... Is number 3 possible? Have I missed something? What would be your idea? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jejejelle 0 #2 March 25, 2004 the first side is not the problem... but before all lines on one side are gone , the canopy will be spinning in every possible direction. After that you will be hanging/falling on 1 riser. should be possible to cut that one to. so i think it is possible , and maybe even a good option. but plz don`t drop the hook knife! ps: im a 150 jumpwonder =] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LawnDart21 0 #3 March 25, 2004 If the canopy is landable, despite injuries, I say land it. If you cut it away and then your main mals, you are done. Atleast if you keep the reserve you are already under something. Although, a good side bar to the scenario is that if your reserve is f'd up but marginally landable. Whats to say it wont change to totally unlandable as you decend. (ie, what if it starts to collapse 1000ft off the ground? I take small comfort in knowing we jump in a heavily wooded area, lots of trees. I would rather risk landing a marginal reserve and hopefully get hung up in a tree, than to get rid of the reserve. I wouldn't mess with a self induced main/reserve oepn scenario. If they downplaned, youd probably have to cut away your good main, and you'd be right back to square one. Or they entangle. If I was gonna cut away a reserve, I would cut the riser as opposed to cutting above it. Hook knives (I have been told by a master rigger) should be strong enough to cut through a riser. If you go above the riser, you will be trying to get all the lines, and they probably wont be all neatly grouped together if the canopy is that f'd up. Lastly, I have also been told that if one is to cut a roser away, either main or reserve, that you should grab the one you arent cutting with your free hand, becuase once you release one, you will be in a not so stable streamer situation and may have difficulty locating the other riser. "Grab one, cut the other first" was how it was taught/explained to me. (Last note, for main risers, hook knives have that little nubby thing on the end which among other things, is designed to be able to cut the riser loop holding the three ring together. It is (conceivably) much easier to cut that loop then to saw through a riser.) Peace. -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #4 March 25, 2004 QuoteYou're on the step and have a premature reserve opening. You're ok, but the reserve in your opinion is very marginally landable. You can land it, but will get hurt - no directional control, and a fastish rate of descent... What do you do? the three options I can see: 1) Stick with it and accept that it'll hurt, 2) Pull your main, possibly resulting in a tangled mess and an enen higher descent rate. The other side is having a controllable 2-out situation. 3) Chop the lines of your reserve above your risers to release it with your hook knife, and then pull your main... Fat chance you will be able to cut the lines or the riser to cutaway the reserve.....Derrick tried to experiment to see if he could clear a lineover that way....I don't think he did very well with that. And that was the whole porpose of that jump....And he had like 2,000+ jumps when he tried it. Like I said "fat chance". The other options all depend on HOW fast you are decending. Is it good PLF fast? or your gonna die fast? If it looks really bad...Like body parts flying off after impact fast..Throw out everything you have."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,059 #5 March 25, 2004 Stick with what will save your life. Once you have a canopy that will probably save your life, stop cutting and pulling things. You might turn a survivable situation into a non-survivable one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #6 March 25, 2004 great answer... I'm gonna remember that one... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #7 March 25, 2004 Keep the reserve and aim for water Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
geronimo 1 #8 March 25, 2004 QuoteYou .... have a premature reserve opening. You're ok, but the reserve in your opinion is very marginally landable. You can land it, but will get hurt - no directional control, and a fastish rate of descent... What do you do? the three options I can see: 1) Stick with it and accept that it'll hurt, 2) Pull your main, possibly resulting in a tangled mess and an enen higher descent rate. The other side is having a controllable 2-out situation. 3) Chop the lines of your reserve above your risers to release it with your hook knife, and then pull your main... Is number 3 possible? Have I missed something? What would be your idea? see Sam Tonroy the whole thread is worth reading. Reminder: If you exceed the TSO weight and or speed limitations - you might end up with a broken parachute, harness or body or all three. .--- I have a dream that my posts will one day will not be judged by the color of the fonts or settings in a Profile but by the content. Geronimo_AT_http://ParachuteHistory.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pullhigh 0 #9 March 25, 2004 I was just thinking the same thing... If I was coming in quicker than I wanted, I'd consider heading for the edge of a pong, or even some low trees to break the impact. Ganja Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #10 March 25, 2004 If I remember correctly, the reason Derek failed in his attempt to clear the lineover was because he couldn't find the right line to cut. If your goal is to cut all of them, that is not a problem. That being said, I would keep the reserve if I thought I could land it and survive. If I thought I would die trying to land it I would start cutting. - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbrasher 1 #11 March 26, 2004 About 20 years ago there was a fatality at Perris were a visiting jumper apparently had a main/reserve deployment (no one saw it). He cut through his reserve risers using a very large knife he had carried; ended up with nothing usable. Red, White and Blue Skies, John T. Brasher D-5166 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 279 #12 March 26, 2004 Option 3, cutting away the reserve before going to the main, does look tricky to carry out in practice. But I do believe it has been done. I recall a case I read maybe 10-15 years back, in the USPA magazine, where a woman had a premature deployment, ripped up the reserve as she passed the aircraft tail, cut the reserve away with her hookknife, and deployed her main. She had only about 40 jumps, if my recollection is right. Pretty cool thinking and a steady hand for that many jumps...or for any number of jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #13 March 26, 2004 QuoteIf the canopy is landable, despite injuries, I say land it. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Take it from someone who has 18 reserve rides and landed more damaged mains than I care to remember: if it is mostly inflated and controlable and it looks like you will limp away from the landing ... keep it. I only regretted landing one damaged canopy and all I got out of it was a few bruises. If the pundits want to know why I had so many mals ... I have two answers: 1) test jumping for the army and 2) first generation tandem mains. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cacophony 0 #14 March 30, 2004 QuoteTake it from someone who has 18 reserve rides and landed more damaged mains than I care to remember I hope that was before you became a rigger!!! Or at least for testing purposes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Cacophony 0 #14 March 30, 2004 QuoteTake it from someone who has 18 reserve rides and landed more damaged mains than I care to remember I hope that was before you became a rigger!!! Or at least for testing purposes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
