DZ competition getting nasty/inaccurate web sites

[peek 21]

Someone mentioned the other day how nasty that some drop zones have gotten in their competition to get students.

I think everyone is aware of what 800 SKYRIDE is doing, but the average DZ seems to be getting involved too.


Some of the things I have encountered on DZ web sites:

Claiming that they will be "cheated" if they go to a DZ where they use smaller aircraft and go to slightly lower altitudes on thir student jumps.

Claiming particular instructional methods offered by competing drop zones are inferior or obsolete.

Using extremely negative verbiage concerning safety, and implying that theirs is the safest DZ around.

Adding phrases to their webs sites thinking that search engines will treat them as search terms and cause more favorable results.

Putting the names of competing drop zones in their web pages (various methods.)

Creating sub domains/sub pages with specific major city or state names that are intended to appear to search engines as separate drop zones.

(Some of these "tricks" are actually hilarious, because they are so amatuerish and years behind the search engine algorithms.)

Any others that you all have seen?

And what would you think if your favorite DZ did some of those things?

[Hooknswoop 19]

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And what would you think if your favorite DZ did some of those things?

Good luck getting people to touch this one with a ten foot pole. Saying anything negative about a DZ, evenif it is true, will likely get you banned from that DZ.

Derek

[airtwardo 7]

It's confusing enough without even trying!

I was packing a rig in the yard a couple weeks ago,
and the neighbor comes over...

It seems he went to a local DZ here and after careful
consideration...signed up for the AFF course.

He said he had complained to the person signing
him up that it was a bit pricey...but the guy told him
even though it was expensive, it was the quickest way
to build the skills needed for a license...

And that once you GET that license...

"The price drops down to like Nothing!"

My neighbor tells me~
"I've been down there 4 times now...and I just KNOW some
of those people are PAYING for their jumps!"


To make matter even worse...
I'm packing in the yard wearing my 'demo jumpers' hat,
that says~ "Make a Skydive-Get a Check" on the front!

DOH!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[WFFC 1]

Let's see. Chicagoland Skydive Center (http://www.skydivecsc.com/skydiving/) will come up in searches from the right to the left coast. There are also directions from midwest cities with dropzones there already.
Mile Hi (I maintain their stuff) has multiple domains. All content of each domain is a mirror image of the master. Location is not masked within direction.
Denver Skydivers (DZ is currently being re-organized and will be renamed/reopened - I maintain their stuff) also has multiple domains. All are mirror images to the original (although there is nothing there now) and directions/location are (were) consistent.

While I'm all for capitalism and competition, why don't we take out the virtual (Skyride) people first instead of trying to take out eachother? Can't we all just get along?

~Michael

My comments in no way reflect the opinions of any organization that I'm involved with and are solely my own.

[Hooknswoop 19]

"Welcome to Colorado's # 1 Skydiving Center!"

Says who?

"MILE-HI SKYDIVING CENTER is the Rocky Mountain region's TOP-RANKED and largest skydiving facility."

Really, who ranked it #1?

"We are the only school within 100 miles of the Denver-Boulder area"

Hmm, there is another DZ within 100 miles and when Brush was open, two within 100 miles.

"Also we are the only school in Colorado to use the most sophisticated safety equipment available on ALL of our parachute equipment!"

Really? What does Mile Hi have everyone else doesn't?

"The KingAir is an 1100 hp., twin engine, jet-prop aircraft. It is our full-time year-round aircraft. It is the nicest skydiving KingAir in the country."

I think Mr. Mullins would disagree.

"The Mile-Hi elevators are a De Havilland Twin Otter"

Is the TO flying jumpers?

"Oxygen is available for jumpers in all aircraft."

LOL!

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Can't we all just get along?

Seems to me Mile Hi's website is right up there in the "inaccurate web site" catagory with everyone else.

Derek

[Luminous 0]

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Adding phrases to their webs sites thinking that search engines will treat them as search terms and cause more favorable results.

Yeah, that's a peeve.

I have nothing against fair advertising, but the use of other DZ names for the search engines strikes me as a dispicable practice.

I don't know if the fact it shows up in a section labled "here's some terms for the search engines" is intentional or not but it doesn't matter. I pointed it out last year and it's still there. along with the name of another (now defunct) DZ.

I guess if you can't get along in the business using only your name you have to ride on someone else's.

BSBD
Larry

'In an insane society a sane person seems insane.' Mr. Spock

[BIGUN 1,422]

I've always thought that slamming the competition says more about you than it does about them.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[Tink1717 2]

One of the DZs that I frequent does something in their advertising that I consider, at best, deceptive. They Co-opt the names for different areas, e.g. "skydive Maryland", etc.. to appear as if they are located in these areas when in fact they are located in New Jersey. I could understand this type of thing if it were a case of a DZ struggling to make it or just starting up. This DZ is neither. This DZ is well established and does not need (IMNSHO) to grub for money in this way. They do well without the need to resort to such tactics. So why the deception? I just don't know.

Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off.
-The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!)
AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717

[WFFC 1]

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Can't we all just get along?

Seems to me Mile Hi's website is right up there in the "inaccurate web site" catagory with everyone else.

Derek

The TO was in the put back together phase when I was there two weeks ago. A TO from SDA will be there in the event the MH TO runs into any issues. You might be interested to see how much work has gone into getting the TO online and ready.
Will be calling Ralph later today to get a status on DS. As for the 100 mile circle, to be technical, it was either 92 or 95 miles from downtown Denver so it's partially semantics. Is it $9.99 or $10.00?

[Hooknswoop 19]

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As for the 100 mile circle, to be technical, it was either 92 or 95 miles from downtown Denver so it's partially semantics. Is it $9.99 or $10.00?

So it is wrong. The TO is not flying. And the other claims?

Derek

[WFFC 1]

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So it is wrong. The TO is not flying. And the other claims?

Derek-
Is the TO flying? No. Is/will a TO fly this season? Yes. While I agree with your passion on somethings, I don't agree with your passion of hassling people.

[Hooknswoop 19]

I am not hassling people, just pointing out that most DZ's have false/misleading advertising on their web pages, including one that you maintain. "Can't we all get along"? How about can't we all follow the rules and do what is right?

And the other claims? False, right?

Derek

[pilotdave 0]

Well, I just did a google search for skydive maryland to see what comes up. The actual dropzone results are:
Skydive Maryland, Inc, aka skydive orange, in VA.
PAF in MD
delmarva in DE
ocean city in MD.

Cross keys doesn't make page 1.

In these cases, the only deceptive one really is orange, VA. Not so much the distance (it might very well be the nearest DZ to some people in MD), but just that they call themselves Skydive Maryland Inc.

Delmarva is also not in MD, but again, they're close enough that they do and should get much of their business from MD.

Dave

[WFFC 1]

We need to take this to PMs...will respond later.

[ally 0]

i have an idea - everywhere should be a club like ours - much more friendly!

don't hound me i'm only joking i kknow as long as ther'll be skydiving there'll be people making (or trying) money out of it and good luck to them if they can survive on it. personally i don't believe in the extortionism involved but its not up to me!!!

[flyangel2 2]

Michael, I don't think Derek is hassling anyone. He has brought up some valid points.

It's normal for companies, any company, to say they are the best. But I'd like to know who was the one that said they were the best.

If the DZ doesn't have an Otter flying, then they shouldn't have that listed as an aircraft that is flying. Maybe some re-wording of "soon on line" would work better.

If the DZ is within 100 miles of a certain location, then list the miles.

I'm sure there are plenty of other websites that can be picked apart, not only Skydiving websites. I just wish business owners were more honest about what they have to offer.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[flyangel2 2]

Not meaning to hassle anyone, but I was thinking about this today. How some DZs don't tell the whole truth on their website. A friend told me that it's okay, cause it's ""marketing". Does that make it right?

Anyway, isn't what Skyride is doing called "marketing" also?

Can someone point out to me why Skyride is in the wrong with their marketing, yet a DZ website that doesn't state the truth, it's okay.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[pash 0]

I haved worked the past 6 years in sales in telecommnunications. Not the "call-you-at-dinner sales" but business to business. After reading 100% of this thread, the thing that I notice about Skyride is that it preys on the ignorant.

Some may say it is the fault of the ignorant - and to some degree, I agree.

However, I never make a move assuming my competitor or customer is ignorant of anything. I teach them. And THAT is the tremendous bond I see in this community. It is teaching, sharing, and competing with integrity. Anyone willing to step over a dollar to pick up a dime is foolish. Or read: anyone willing to hit a one-time skydiver for $40 over market price and ensure they will never be a customer again, is foolish.

Oh yeah, the theft thing sucks too.

[WFFC 1]

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Can someone point out to me why Skyride is in the wrong with their marketing, yet a DZ website that doesn't state the truth, it's okay.

You may want to visit the skyride thread. You'll find all your answers in there. If you don't call me and I'll 'splain offline.

P.S. A dropzone will soon be rising from the ashes...stay tuned.

[Hooknswoop 19]

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You may want to visit the skyride thread. You'll find all your answers in there.

Lies are lies, regardless of how you spin it.

Derek

[kallend 2,106]

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Not meaning to hassle anyone, but I was thinking about this today. How some DZs don't tell the whole truth on their website. A friend told me that it's okay, cause it's ""marketing". Does that make it right?

Anyway, isn't what Skyride is doing called "marketing" also?

Can someone point out to me why Skyride is in the wrong with their marketing, yet a DZ website that doesn't state the truth, it's okay.

Anyone that's been alive a few years has developed a hyperbole filter when dealing with ads. We all know that not every brand of washing powder can get clothes the cleanest and not every SUV has the best handling.

I put most DZ websites in the hyperbole category, not the outright lies that Skyride spews.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ltdiver 3]

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I've always thought that slamming the competition says more about you than it does about them.

Yep. I chose the place I learned, not because they had the largest and best aircraft on the block (they didn't), but because when I asked about other DZ's around they didn't bash them...they praised them. This made me want to ask more about their operation and their truthfulness signed me up.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[dreamsville 0]

I think it diminishes our sport in the eyes of others when one DZ bashes another, particularly on safety.

We learn about safety records of DZs. One DZ may criticize another for their record. Then that same DZ has an accident/fatality. I've seen it happen. It's best to tout the virtues and market honestly. Getting in a criticizing match just results in a destructive spiral.

Edited for spelling.
|

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[flyangel2 2]

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the thing that I notice about Skyride is that it preys on the ignorant.

So the run of the mill person wanting to make their first skydive, goes to google, and finds a DZ in their area. Reads some things like:

Best and Safest Equipment (What makes that equipment safer and best?)

Best Aircraft (In who's opinion?)

Best Location (I guess it depends on where you are coming from)

Have More Fun (Heck, I have fun no matter where I'm at)

Region's Top Rated (Who rated them top?)

The Best facilities (Who said they were the best?)

No one can boost a better safety record then us (Are we talking deaths, broken bones, or a broken finger nail?)


They are ignorant to know what skydiving is all about, so they see "Region's Top Rated." Who rated them top?

IMO when one website states "they are the best" that is putting down the other DZs in the area. Why can't the websites just stick to the facts and not opinions?

Michael, I've been to the Skyride website, and I'm not saying what they are doing is correct, but where do we draw the line with moral business practices?

Are white lies okay?

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[pash 0]

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IMO when one website states "they are the best" that is putting down the other DZs in the area. Why can't the websites just stick to the facts and not opinions?

Everyone selling something should believe in their product and believe it is the best. Otherwise you will not eat. I just don't get how a competitor in the skydiving industry can sleep at night trashing another to their customers. I guess it is, of course, the real world and the real world (read: greed) will work its way into any opportunistic situation it can.

I am at peace with the irony of badmouthing Skyride in this forum. This forum is not advertising one DZ over another to a potential customer. Skyride supporters have equal time. The arguments in support of them have been:

1. Hey I'm a fun jumper - it really doesn't affect me
2. It's a market economy and if someone is willing to pay the price, then that's the price

The arguments against have been more convincing:

1. There are hungry skydivers (redundant) that have risked their lives and taken the time and energy to take unique pictures which have been stolen.
2. number 2 is unecessary given number 1

SKYRIDE WILL LOSE BECAUSE IT DOES NOT ADD VALUE.

SKYRIDE WILL WIN BECAUSE OF INDUSTRY DISORGANIZATION. (not the disorganization of individuals in skydiving, just the willingness of some DZ's to feed Skyride by agreeing to their referral program.)

I was referred to my DZ by my prior instructor. I was referred to skydiving by my brother. If someone at my DZ showed up with a certificate, I would find a quiet time to speak with them. I would not bash Skyride but I would tell them the real costs and I'm sure they would tell their friends.

jason