Question on being grounded

[Orange1 0]

There's a pic on the CT website with them playing with something in the air... dunno if that's a spaceball?

Somewhat off the original thread but yes - I do now understand why some people get grounded... though am still not convinced it is always appropriate... but that view may change with more experience

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Tonto 1]

It's not about the MOP's. It's a civil aviation law that states that nothing but sand or water (Balast for balloons or gliders) may be dropped in flight. CAA made it quite clear that an incident with a space ball would be the end of the sport in SA. This is no light threat. They shut down skydiving in Swaziland for over 10 years after a safety related incident.

Cape Town? They're over the sea. Maybe that has something to do with consequence - but as far as I know, it's still against the law.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Peej 0]

This one?

http://www.skydivecapetown.za.net/aboutus.htm
Yep, that's a spaceball.

ps. Thanks for clarifying the rules t

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[Orange1 0]

what about skysurfing then? are there not instances where the boards (is that the correct term?) have to be jettisoned?

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Tonto 1]

Yes, but that is in the event of an emergency, in the same way you release your main in order to survive. Besides, a board usually rotates in decent, and falls quite slowly. 900 grams of lead at 150 mph has comparable energy at impact to a 20mm depleted uranium round.

In the end, you'll need to argue with the CAA. I'm sure if you ditch a board, or spaceball, and it hits some kid and kills them, that you will have many, many questions to answer.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Airman1270 0]

Interesting stuff... Anybody ever been grounded for political (non-safety related) reasons?

In some previous posts I've referred to my two groundings in the 1980's. The first occurred shortly after graduation at a DZ far from home. After making a few jumps at the local "private club" DZ I was warned not to bother others for pin checks. No shit, there I was (), young, new, still overwhelmed with gear fear, just barely getting to know these guys & appreciating the help I was receiving, and afraid to speak up & cause trouble. So I sent a brief note to USPA asking for advice. (I did not identify anybody, nor did I mention the part about the pilot drinking beer during operating hours.)

Rather than reply personally, they printed my letter in PARACHUTIST. This got me banned for life.

My choice was to quit or drive 3+ hours to the next available DZ. This went on for several years. During this time, I had a hard reserve pull and almost went in. Given the circumstances, I was averaging fewer than 30 jumps a year. The DZO, who had welcomed me warmly, now became nervous and decided that, as a non-frequent jumper, I was a hole in the ground waiting to happen and told me not to come back. (This, despite my having proved I can keep my head in an emergency ...)

Because of these experiences, I take an interest in this topic and hope any decision to ground someone would be limited to blatant, willful disregard for safety and little else. Of course, screwing the DZO's wife does fall under this category.

If one gets kicked out of a bowling league, one simply needs to drive a few miles to the next bowling establishment. Most of us can consider ourselves fortunate to live within an hour's drive of a DZ. If we can't jump there, it becomes nearly impossible to continue in the sport.

Cheers,
Jon

[tigerclaw 0]

I really appreciate your example/analogy. I was an ammunition specialist in the US Army. I've been watching alot of Freefly videos and other cool stuff on SkydivingMovies.com. I've been looking forward to playing with some of that stuff in the air ( Once I'm licensed, have ALOT more experience, etc.) and I wondered about the fall rate of what LOOKED like regular tennis balls and other miscellaneous fun toys....Hmmm. A 20mm DU round. Geez. I wouldn't want that falling anywhere near my DZ. Just shows how much I still have to learn in this sport. I'm really glad i was in here while waiting to jump tomorrow. Blue skies. Thanks for the education

[billvon 2,991]

>900 grams of lead at 150 mph has comparable energy at impact to a
>20mm depleted uranium round.

To be fair, is also has the same energy as 3 gallons of water dumped on your head from 20 feet above you. There's a lot more to what's dangerous and what's not than energy. (But I agree that dropping a skyball on someone is bad.)

[pope 0]

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Many years ago I was grounded for a few days following a naked low pull contest. I won with a score of about 500-700 feet. Yup, I was pissed, but I deserved the grounding, and I didn't pull that stunt at that DZ again.

Were you grounded for pulling low, or being naked? You gotta be pretty homely to get grounded for nakedness!
good one!
pope

[tombuch 0]

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Hmmmm, i'll let the dudes from the US tell us about their rules. WRT SA: I know they're banned at JSC and i can't be sure about the rest of the country. I heard you could jump them down at skydive CT. Maybe Bev or Tonto would care to chime in about our MOP's?

The specific regulations in the United States are FAR 91.15 and 105.5

91.15 Dropping Objects: "No pilot in command of a civil aircraft may allow any object to be dropped from that aircraft in flight that creates a hazard to persons or property. However, this section does not prohibit the dropping of any object if reasonable precautions are taken to avoid injury or damage to persons or property."

105.5 General: "No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from an aircraft, if that operation creats a hazard to air traffic or persons or property on the surface."

Each drop zone and pilot needs to consider the specific kind of objects (spaceballs, sky surf boards, etc.) to be taken in freefall, and consider the surrounding area. Dropping a car isn't much of a hazard in the Arizona desert, but it might be considered a hazard to drop something as small as a spaceball over a residential area.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[Scrumpot 1]

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Interesting stuff... Anybody ever been grounded for political (non-safety related) reasons?

No.

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[dreamsville 0]

Policies on spaceballs vary. Many DZs allow them. Some, such as Skydive Arizona, have a specific area near the airport to which they restrict ball jumping, and the pilots will drop said jumpers above this open area.
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I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[Tonto 1]

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>900 grams of lead at 150 mph has comparable energy at impact to a
>20mm depleted uranium round.

To be fair, is also has the same energy as 3 gallons of water dumped on your head from 20 feet above you. There's a lot more to what's dangerous and what's not than energy. (But I agree that dropping a skyball on someone is bad.)

So... those 3 gallons... If we leave them in the container - lets say plastic.. are you willing to have 26.4 lbs dropped on your head from 20 feet? Or would you think that's bad?

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[skypuppy 1]

Interesting stuff... Anybody ever been grounded for political (non-safety related) reasons?
__________________________________________________

I would say yes, the people that grounded me would probably say no. Specifically I was grounded for doing two-ways with a buddy who had (I'm guessing, it was a long time ago) between 30 and 100 jumps but no B-licence (Canada). We were grounded at our regular dz for 30-days, which led us to go to another dz not too far away and have a hell of a good time. 2 weeks into the suspension we called an emergency club meeting (had to follow the club constitution) and had the grounding overturned, which, I believe, led to the resignation of one or two of the board members who had grounded us to begin with....

(That was grounding number 1. Someone else has dealt with grounding number 3 elsewhere. Maybe sometime I'll talk about grounding number 2)

Of course, if we're talking about groundings, where's SCOTTY CARBONE?

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[FrogNog 1]

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>900 grams of lead at 150 mph has comparable energy at impact to a
>20mm depleted uranium round.

To be fair, is also has the same energy as 3 gallons of water dumped on your head from 20 feet above you. There's a lot more to what's dangerous and what's not than energy. (But I agree that dropping a skyball on someone is bad.)

So... those 3 gallons... If we leave them in the container - lets say plastic.. are you willing to have 26.4 lbs dropped on your head from 20 feet? Or would you think that's bad?

t

I like the semi truck comparison. How fast would a semi truck (without trailer, say) have to be going to have that much kinetic energy? Would you be willing to stand in front of a semi truck going that fast on level ground (with frictionless tires, wheel bearings, and transmission) and stop it all by yourself? I believe the answer for me is "heck yeah!" The reason is I get all the time I need to stop it, gently, and I can spread the force it exerts on me out over my hands or shoulder. (In this experiment I assume a wall is not going to "back up" my efforts at stopping the truck.)

With three plastic gallons of water falling on my head, I pretty much only get as much time to stop them (absorb their kinetic energy) as the time it takes them to compress my spine and leg joints, and I only get to spread it out over my crown. Oof!

and with a bullet, I get even less time to try and absorb the energy (say one nine-hundredth of a second for a pistol bullet or one two- or three-thousandth of a second for a rifle bullet - I believe that's 300 microseconds) and I only get to spread it out over a circular part of my body 9mm (or 18mm, depending on subsequent mushrooming) to 20mm in diameter. That's where things come apart.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[Tonto 1]

With you there.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[Beverly 1]

Hey Tdog, we have a pro rated landing area that is near the buildings and students are not allowed near for fear of smacking into a building, as well as the other effects of turbulance off the metal roof of all the buildings and hangar. Like I said, 3 strikes and you are out, if the same student keeps landing in the wrong area then they should take up golf for the next weekend, as they are bound to crash into something that does not move out of the way and hurt themselves.

I normally take them a blank incident report form and ask them to sign it so that when they do smack in, I already have their signiture.
It normally does the trick and get's them to be more observant and careful.

We have a huge landing are and there are very few restricted areas that we recommend that you avoid. Students can land out and be safe, and that is normally the recommendation. They will get a talking to if they try to get back to the DZ and low turn it to land.

I think true friendship is under-rated

Twitter: @Dreamskygirlsa