kallend 2,026
Recommended Posts
QuoteThis will make it all better<----Clicky.
JP, you kill me! I wish I knew of a way to put that in a comic strip for DZ!
AMax 0
Yeah, it made me laugh too ... 
AMax 0
Quote
B: I never said it was a guy.
I think I know this instructor
IMHO (and pretty unbiased since I don't even jump there on regular basis anymore) this person is an etalon of AFFI - professional, liked by absolutely everyone at DZ, always treats people with respect regardless of their skydiving experience and status. Every time I see this instructor working with students, I get inspired about teaching and think about obtaining a rating in future. I cannot believe someone posts such a BS about this instructor.
DShiznit 0
agreed- I think someone just got their feelings hurt because they couldn't jump.
I've made the 3.5 hr (one way) trip up to SDD several times and didn't get to jump during AFF due to inclement weather. It happens.
I've made the 3.5 hr (one way) trip up to SDD several times and didn't get to jump during AFF due to inclement weather. It happens.
The original poster made a mistake bring his negative statements here before approaching the DZO at the DZ. We are a small community and it's not hard to figure out who or where some one is talking about.
The impression I get from the original poster is that maybe he was a smarty in class, hence the instructor had enough of him. I've seen some students that think they have all the answers, so they don't pay attention during the class.
To Musicman: If you don't like the instruction you got, then go to the DZO with examples as to why you are unhappy, ask for your money back and go to a different DZ. Be warned, since you made a public announcement about your disappointment in one DZ without facts to back your statement, you may have a hard time finding a place that will take your money. My suggestion to you is to beg for forgiveness unless you have facts. Oh, and taking a case of good beer to the DZ might help
The impression I get from the original poster is that maybe he was a smarty in class, hence the instructor had enough of him. I've seen some students that think they have all the answers, so they don't pay attention during the class.
To Musicman: If you don't like the instruction you got, then go to the DZO with examples as to why you are unhappy, ask for your money back and go to a different DZ. Be warned, since you made a public announcement about your disappointment in one DZ without facts to back your statement, you may have a hard time finding a place that will take your money. My suggestion to you is to beg for forgiveness unless you have facts. Oh, and taking a case of good beer to the DZ might help
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey
QuoteYou think it's bad to not jump in one day because the winds were high? If that's the attitude that you're gonna have then maybe the sport isn't for you. As you can see, I don't have a lot of jumps under my belt for the amount of time i spent in the sport, but you know what, we all deal with the weather.
Well said. An instructor once told another student on the DZ (I was eavesdropping
) that "There will always be another day to jump." Every time I'm frustrated by winds/weather/lack of money/having to work that day/anything else, that sentence pops into my head. I know that it will keep me from doing something stupid, like jumping in winds too high, etc.
Jen
Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda
QuoteThe original poster made a mistake bring his negative statements here before approaching the DZO at the DZ. We are a small community and it's not hard to figure out who or where some one is talking about.
True. Making comments like that (especially having only spent 6 or 7 hours on the DZ) doesn't help. Talking to the DZ people will.
Quote
Be warned, since you made a public announcement about your disappointment in one DZ without facts to back your statement, you may have a hard time finding a place that will take your money. My suggestion to you is to beg for forgiveness unless you have facts.
I doubt that anyone at the DZ would say anything about the comments made here (especially seeing as how his name isn't listed, so we don't really know who he is), and I don't think there are too many people from SDD that are on here on a regular basis either.
QuoteOh, and taking a case of good beer to the DZ might help
I won't argue with that one.
AMax 0
I believe the original thread has two problems and we still have not dissected them.
First, the complain leaves a false impression about the instructor in question (and I am absolutely sure that those who know this instructor will all agree that the remarks made by original poster have nothing to do with reality).
Second, the post delivers a wrong message to new students. Most of us pay to jump but regardless the amount of money we spend we all play by rules. I do agree to some extent that the jumpers should be treated like customers but common, if it’s your first or second time at DZ - humble down a little bit and listen because you know close to nothing. Regardless their personalities, the instructors are to make sure that your first jump is successful so give them some credit. If you do not like something - think twice before you complain.
First, the complain leaves a false impression about the instructor in question (and I am absolutely sure that those who know this instructor will all agree that the remarks made by original poster have nothing to do with reality).
Second, the post delivers a wrong message to new students. Most of us pay to jump but regardless the amount of money we spend we all play by rules. I do agree to some extent that the jumpers should be treated like customers but common, if it’s your first or second time at DZ - humble down a little bit and listen because you know close to nothing. Regardless their personalities, the instructors are to make sure that your first jump is successful so give them some credit. If you do not like something - think twice before you complain.
...It doesn't matter if is true or not, posting anything negative about a DZ will get you ostracized from that DZ....
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Wise words. In 1985 I saw some things at the local DZ that made me nervous. At the same time, these guys were very helpful to me, a recent graduate from another DZ miles away. I didn't want to make a fuss, so I sent a brief note to USPA describing the situation and asking advice. They never responded to me, but published my letter in the magazine. The next time I went to the DZ I was told I was banned "for life."
The last time I saw any of these people was five years later at a boogie. They were still holding a grudge.
I have to laugh when I hear people assuring newcomers that "there's no such thing as a stupid question", etc., and that they should never be afraid to ask. I saw a potentially risky situation and asked for advice, and 20 years later am still paying for it. Still, I learned a valuable lesson: Assume that anything you send to headquarters could end up in PARACHUTIST unless you specifically ask that it not be printed.
By the way, I was right, but that's another story...
Cheers,
Jon
(Reporting from the library while still looking for work and getting somewhat bummed out about the process.)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Wise words. In 1985 I saw some things at the local DZ that made me nervous. At the same time, these guys were very helpful to me, a recent graduate from another DZ miles away. I didn't want to make a fuss, so I sent a brief note to USPA describing the situation and asking advice. They never responded to me, but published my letter in the magazine. The next time I went to the DZ I was told I was banned "for life."
The last time I saw any of these people was five years later at a boogie. They were still holding a grudge.
I have to laugh when I hear people assuring newcomers that "there's no such thing as a stupid question", etc., and that they should never be afraid to ask. I saw a potentially risky situation and asked for advice, and 20 years later am still paying for it. Still, I learned a valuable lesson: Assume that anything you send to headquarters could end up in PARACHUTIST unless you specifically ask that it not be printed.
By the way, I was right, but that's another story...
Cheers,
Jon
(Reporting from the library while still looking for work and getting somewhat bummed out about the process.)
bigbearfng 18
In my FJC Pat made some very "adamant" statements about paying attention, and if you don't get this you're not going to jump-we'll give you your money back and go away; because if you screw up you'll die.
Personally I didn't have any problems at all with those statements........if that was the jist of what was said to get a point across...sounds like maybe someone didn't like it????
Some whuffos I've talked to believe its like a cool amusement park ride....NOT...
Personally I didn't have any problems at all with those statements........if that was the jist of what was said to get a point across...sounds like maybe someone didn't like it????
Some whuffos I've talked to believe its like a cool amusement park ride....NOT...
Squeak 17
QuoteQuoteThis will make it all better<----Clicky.
JP, you kill me! I wish I knew of a way to put that in a comic strip for DZ!
Have the same scenario, but instead of a URL hand the guy a bowling ball
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?
Antidote 0
Quote
As for the weather, try and see how many jumps I have gotten in one and a half years. I love jumping in Denmark
I did 350 last year
. To your defense, 150 of them were in Russia.
You just need to LIVE on the dropzone. Then Thy Jumps Cometh
Is it just me, or does there seem to be a trend of posers, er um, I mean "posters" that publicly post their personal agenda vent/flame situations that shouldn't be vented here in the first place (the Colorado accident comes to mind), then when they realize they are not holding the "majority opinion", they just split. They take off, never to be heard from again on the subject. It's almost like a "preaching from the soap box" version of ringing a door bell and then running away.......... These people publicly throw out these serious allegations, and when they get called on it............POOF! They disappear from the thread.
--
My other ride is a RESERVE.
--
My other ride is a RESERVE.
Quoteagreed- I think someone just got their feelings hurt because they couldn't jump.
Isn't that quite a leap, given your limited understanding of what happened?
Sheesh, the guy may have been whining, but you guys certainly aren't dissuading his belief that skydivers are elitists given the way you're all banding together to slam him and presume he's bullshitting. Nevermind the posts acknowledging that many DZs in this sport doesn't accept even valid criticism. Unfortunately these discussions never stay in the abstract long - the DZ and the parties tend to be identified quickly. Hopefully he can find a way to resolve it, whether it was he or the instructor that caused it.
I remember getting winded out on my FJC day and I remember being pretty ticked off about it. I think it's physiological - you spend all day getting jacked up, and then no release. I never translated that into the FJC instructor was being an ass- I thought he did a great class for me and my buddy. I was angry that they didn't tell us that the wind would be coming in the afternoon and if we waited too long, we would be grounded. (and then the fog rolled in later). It was a month or two before I realized that the alternative approach: "you have to get on this load, or you won't jump today" would be a far worse approach. First jumpers shouldn't be rushed onto the plane.
So maybe cut the guy a little slack - say only two strikes against him. He didn't try to name names, just was venting frustration.
DShiznit 0
Quote
Isn't that quite a leap, given your limited understanding of what happened?
Nope. I called it as he spoke it.
BTW - I almost didn't get to make my AFF1 jump at the same DZ for the same reason, only I didn't start posting saying that the instructor was an ass. I know who his instructor was, and that is hardly the case.
Scrumpot 1
QuoteMore care could and should be given to newcomers to encourage the activity of skydiving.
Okay, just ANOTHER perspective, and observational point if you-all don't mind ...without rehashing a bunch of what has already been said.
To me, THIS (the above statement) is the premise where I feel you may "disconnect", and maybe ...just MAY have set yourself up for some FALSE expectations. ...(?? Maybe??)
I do not agree that skydiving should necessarily be ENCOURAGED as an activity at all, to anyone in either particular or in general. In fact, it SHOULD BE approached very soberly, and with a good measure of CAUTION and counsel, if not even downright admonition! Although you may have been "totally stoked", "pumped up" and "psyched" to "get out to it" and "on with it", SKYDIVING IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY, and that is NOT the attitude to approach it in any way. Perhaps either your exuberance or your expectations/"excitement level" were "excessive", and that was recognized by your INSTRUCTORS (again, this is NOT merely an amusement ride that you have otherwise an absolute inherent RIGHT to just automatically "participate" in), and they felt the need to "bring that down in you" a bit 1st; and you didn't recognize/like or "appreciate" it?
Seriously. ...Just another again (potential) angle, or component to think about. If you still think, after considering this, that your instructor was grossly out-of-line, then indeed, you need to bring that up, and satisfy yourself as to those answers and the dealing with it, with the DZ MANAGEMENT. I've heard several people in here already state that the Management of the DZ you went to would be fair. But are you (yet) giving them a commensurate CHANCE to be? Just coming in here & looking to provide some sort of "pre-emptive slam" certainly is not going to help your "case" any.
As far as NOT jumping, HELL ...I flew nearly 3,000 miles a few weeks ago, specifically to take part in a jumping event that NEVER happened (because of the weather)!!! -Your very FIRST consideration for YOU, (and YOUR BENEFIT) like it or NOT is SAFETY! Gusty winds, or any winds in excess of 20-25 MPH (actually 15 MPH for students) is NOT "SAFE" ...and believe-you-me, if you WERE allowed to jump in those, would NOT have made your experience "fun" at all!
Sounds to me like they acted APPROPRIATELY in consideration for YOUR SAFETY (and potential continuation/ongoing/future enjoyment as well) in this sport, at least in THAT regard.
Hopefully all the input has helped you as well to put some things in PERSPECTIVE. Take up your concerns, and yes even if they are complaints, to that DZ's management. If you do not like the answer(s), and get yourself whatever measure of satisfaction it is YOU need from that, then also take your beusiness elsewhere. THAT is your absolute right and prerogative to do.
Blue Skies,
-Grant
coitus non circum - Moab Stone
ahegeman 0
I took the FJC at SDD not too long ago, and was a bit taken aback by what I perceived as condescension as well, so I think I can understand where you are coming from. The instructor (different one from yours) was pedantic, simplified things way too much (I thought at the time), and seemed a bit put out when I asked why I should do things exactly the way he said. Of course, if you think about it, it makes perfect sense. These instructors are responsible for the lives of their students - if not legally, they certainly feel a sense of responsibility. They have to assume that all students are idiots because many of them are. If they assume someone who's perfectly intelligent is an idiot, then maybe someone gets a bit insulted - big deal. If they assume an idiot is smarter than they are then someone could get killed. And besides, as I found out, on the first jump its easy to turn into an idiot. The sensory overload is incredible, everything moves so quickly, and we are totally out of our element. If they are brusque with you it may be that they don't want too much going through your head on the actual skydive, as you are safest simply doing what they recommend exactly as they say. Its nothing more than a life-saving course that has been gradualy developed over decades with many hard-earned lessons. It is taught the way it is for a reason.
I sincerely doubt that the instructor in question was actually rude - knowing her it seems inconceivable to me unless someone was disrepectful of her first. But I can see how your might feel intellectually insulted by the level to which they boil everything down. That, however, is a matter of necessity.
As for many of the poster's responses to your post, you need to understand that you called out someone whom many of us feel is not just another skydiver, but actually the heart and soul of our dropzone. I've trusted her with my life on many occasions. I may just be another former student to her, but teaching me to fly has made her one of the most meaningful and important people in my life. Many others there have been though things with her that you or I probably can't even relate to. We are sort of a family over there.
My suggestion to you is to forget your pride, remember the important lessons of the FJC, and come out when the weather looks good and do your damned jump. When its over you'll forget all this BS. Bring a case, hang out afterwards, put a few away with the rest of us, and join the family. Its remarkably easy.
I sincerely doubt that the instructor in question was actually rude - knowing her it seems inconceivable to me unless someone was disrepectful of her first. But I can see how your might feel intellectually insulted by the level to which they boil everything down. That, however, is a matter of necessity.
As for many of the poster's responses to your post, you need to understand that you called out someone whom many of us feel is not just another skydiver, but actually the heart and soul of our dropzone. I've trusted her with my life on many occasions. I may just be another former student to her, but teaching me to fly has made her one of the most meaningful and important people in my life. Many others there have been though things with her that you or I probably can't even relate to. We are sort of a family over there.
My suggestion to you is to forget your pride, remember the important lessons of the FJC, and come out when the weather looks good and do your damned jump. When its over you'll forget all this BS. Bring a case, hang out afterwards, put a few away with the rest of us, and join the family. Its remarkably easy.
---------------------------------------------------------------
There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
--Dave Barry
There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'.
--Dave Barry
efs4ever 3
Quote
I sincerely doubt that the instructor in question was actually rude - knowing her it seems inconceivable to me unless someone was disrepectful of her first. But I can see how your might feel intellectually insulted by the level to which they boil everything down. That, however, is a matter of necessity.
I do tandems at Skydive Houston, and I was called on the carpet by mgmt one time for "barking" at students too loudly in the door. I never realized I might be offensive in my quest to have the student assume the correct body position before the plane flew off into BFE, so afterward I tried to remind the student in advance that I just might be yelling at them in the door due to the noise levels and their own sensory overload. At the same time I also tried to bark more softly and closer to their ear so the pilot couldn't hear me
Russell M. Webb D 7014
Attorney at Law
713 385 5676
https://www.tdcparole.com
Attorney at Law
713 385 5676
https://www.tdcparole.com
I once posted a link to the NTSB report of a jump plane accident, and got hate mail from people that jump at that DZ.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Share this post
Link to post
Share on other sites