Freefly vs Belly/RW

[tdog 0]

So, on the DZ last Saturday - someone looked at a national champion RW guy and said, "RW is a dieng breed." He said, "and we are bringing it back."

Feel free in your posts to indicate the name and city of the DZ, and any other comments you might have about "market trends". How have things changed in the last few months, the last year, and the last few years.

Our DZ is about 50-50.

[FFAddict 0]

I have only jumped at two DZ and obviousely have limited experience.

I did my AFF in the states and from talking to people and my own observations it seemed that RW was dieing out as almost everybody was freeflying.

But back in the UK the opposite seems true, you seem to get the occasional freeflyer but the majority seems to be RW.

As a new skydiver i always thought i would want to get into freeflying as RW seemed pritty boring, but i am just starting to do WARP training and i love it. i never imagined that i would enjoy it so much.

In my opinion if/when RW dies (which i dont think it ever will) it is all down to image, freeflying has a much younger 'cooler' image than RW and to new and younger skydivers that is very important. Its all about 'getting people through the door' to try RW because that is the only way that they will understand how great it is.

[larsrulz 0]

I jump at Archway in Illinois and RW by far takes the win. Occassionally there are a few freefliers who do some small way stuff, but more often than not our freefly organizer is organizing RW loads instead.

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[diablopilot 2]

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someone looked at a national champion RW guy and said, "RW is a dieng breed."

That kind of statment often comes from a retard who lacks the social skills to play well with others, and the skydiving skills basic enough to spot or safely be in the sky with 3 other people.


I "SKydive", in all orientations.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[BikerBabe 0]

LOL...I present you with the following.

Compare:
http://www.omniskore.com/comp/2004/nats/results_freefly.htm

to

http://www.omniskore.com/comp/2004/nats/teams_pics/results2.htm

And that's just the intermediate class!

No, FS is not dying.

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[Kris 0]

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That kind of statment often comes from a retard who lacks the social skills to play well with others, and the skydiving skills basic enough to spot or safely be in the sky with 3 other people.

*snicker* Well said. RW isn't going anywhere. I primarily freefly, but I still like to do low-pressure RW. Hell, it's all playing in the sky, and it's all good.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[tdog 0]

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someone looked at a national champion RW guy and said, "RW is a dieng breed."

That kind of statment often comes from a retard who lacks the social skills to play well with others, and the skydiving skills basic enough to spot or safely be in the sky with 3 other people.


I "SKydive", in all orientations.

Actually, it came from another great skydiver who by all means could compete nationally in RW. I think I must have struck a nerve, you got quite defensive.

[bch7773 0]

at my DZ we mostly have people who do only freefly, and some that do only RW.

then we have a few that will do both, like myself.

MB 3528, RB 1182

[kallend 2,027]

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someone looked at a national champion RW guy and said, "RW is a dieng breed."

That kind of statment often comes from a retard who lacks the social skills to play well with others, and the skydiving skills basic enough to spot or safely be in the sky with 3 other people.


I "SKydive", in all orientations.

Actually, it came from another great skydiver who by all means could compete nationally in RW. I think I must have struck a nerve, you got quite defensive.

"Could"? The great ones already have competed nationally.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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at my DZ we mostly have people who do only freefly, and some that do only RW.

then we have a few that will do both, like myself.

restricting yourself to any single disclipline in skydiving is something I just don't understand - and why I don't get this whole "vs" business that keeps coming up from newbies (maybe they have identity problems)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[tdog 0]

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restricting yourself to any single disclipline in skydiving is something I just don't understand - and why I don't get this whole "vs" business that keeps coming up from newbies (maybe they have identity problems)

You saying I have an identity problem. My therapist has worked with me for 30 years on that issue, and now you are gonna burst my bubble that I was cured.

I don't know about restricting myself or anyone else... I know a lot of people who do both but are better or prefer one over the other. I also know I have been to 4 DZs and have seen one be very freefly focused and one be very RW focused. When I watched the videos the guys were taking - both DZs had incredible flyers.

For the record - this was NEVER intended to be a "vs" debate. But it is no secret that some people have preferences and really stick with them. Heck, I have not skied in 20 years, but I snowboard a lot. Same mountain, different goals.

Off to find my identity...

[selbbub78 0]

Where's the choice for CReW??? It's growing you know!!! People are realizing that grabbing nylon is where it's at!

CReW Skies,

"Women fake orgasms - men fake whole relationships" – Sharon Stone
"The world is my dropzone" (wise crewdog quote)
"The light dims, until full darkness pierces into the world."-KDM

[tdog 0]

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Where's the choice for CReW??? It's growing you know!!! People are realizing that grabbing nylon is where it's at!

CReW Skies,

Very good point... Perhaps you should post a thread. "Canopy to save your life, Canopy to Swoop, Canopy to CReW"... I just focused on the freefall part of the dive - if you are the type that actually freefalls instead of hop-n-poping at some altitude.

[rehmwa 2]

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You saying I have an identity problem. My therapist has worked with me for 30 years on that issue, and now you are gonna burst my bubble that I was cured.

Oh, a "Bubble boy" huh? My voices only tell me to burn things.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[GTAVercetti 0]

I have been mostly doing RW since I got my license. I am going to start freeflying more this summer. However, I do not plan to stop RW anytime soon. It is still fun.

As has been already said, just being in the sky....

Is fun.

Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing.

[Zenister 0]

its Eloy.. it depends on what week it is, and what load it is...

but looking around the hanger today.. RW is alive and well...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[Maggotry 0]

Ours is about 25% freefliers, 25% RW dudes, 25% swoopers and 25% fun-jumpers.

By fun jumpers I'm talking sub 100 jumps a year come-when-the-weather is fine people.

[bdbrown 0]

Are we all not fun jumpers?

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[gordy 0]

I have to agree the "vs" thing is lame!

[tdog 0]

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I have to agree the "vs" thing is lame!

I was the one that started this thread and I agree "vs" is lame too...

I never meant the "vs" to one person - like they personally had to choose between one or the other... I meant it more on a global scale, like if you had a plane load of people who were good at both, what % of the time would they choose one over the other?

Again, to clarify, I think it is cool that people can do both, especially if they can do both well... That is my goal.

Are we on the same page now???

[gordy 0]

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Are we on the same page now???

Vastly better phrased

[skr 1]

>comments you might have about "market trends"

>How have things changed in the last few months,
>the last year, and the last few years.


I think each generation comes along and changes
the form, the surface appearance, of the activity
while the underlying essence, the human experience,
hasn't changed at all.

Right now the current thing is to divide the world up
according to body position, but you can come at it
from a different angle, like this:

http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/soc_ev_skydiving.html


Here's a short quote from that:

All this confirmed and enhanced some opinions and viewpoints that I have:


1 - We are now teaching people how to do Freefall

before they know how to make a Parachute Jump.


That's like teaching people how to scuba dive

before they know how to swim.


-----------------------------


2 - Skydiving has become main stream and the commercialization

of it is remaking the landscape. We now have a fifth kind

of person coming out to jump.


Many people divide the world according to body position or

type of activity, but I see five main categories:


#1 The artist, explorer, pioneer, innovator, questor.


#2 The recreational but totally hooked every weekender.


#3 The professional - movies, demos, jumpmaster, livlihood.


#4 The competitor - numbers/comparison in a restricted format.


#5 The mainstreamer - comes out 5, 10, 20 times a year,

maybe takes a week long skydiving vacation.


-----------------------------


3 - The question of exit order and separaton of groups is

complicated and will require training and education but

is within our reach.


Because the situation is complex the answer will not be

a simplistic, one size fits all answer.


The effort to create an informed consensus reality on this

really, really, really needs to be done.

I think competition and record setting is what causes
a particular form to ossify. Here's a post on that idea:

http://indra.net/~bdaniels/ftw/fr_ref4_freedom.html

And here's the beginning of that article:

Freedom is not a body position.


It is not a maneuver either.


Freedom - discovery, play, exploration, innovation, fantasy

and

Body Position - sit, stand, face down, head down

are two orthogonal discussions.


Expressing freedom through the mechanism of new body position

or new maneuver has been tried several times before.


And it works for a while.


But then the forces of ego and competition step in and go through

a very predictable process.


First strip out all the interesting and meaningful but non

measurable stuff.


Then create a standard set of compulsory moves.


Then start promoting these events called meets, where the

competition is more important than the skydiving, and the

skydivers perform these compulsory moves for people on the

ground called judges.

I got pulled in other directions and haven't touched
that web site in years, but I still agree with those two
articles.

Skr

[happythoughts 0]

30 years ago, people didn't think that RW was possible until the baton pass.

10 years ago, a freeflyer told me, "Dude, we don't do the 'points' thing. It is all about just flying. There's no 'dirt dive'."

8 years ago, freeflyers were doing VRW.

5 years ago, freeflyers were naming VRW formations and doing records.

5 years from now, VRW will have the same issues and joys as RW.

8 years from now, participants in something 'new' will be discussing freeflying...

[MarkM 0]

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restricting yourself to any single disclipline in skydiving is something I just don't understand - and why I don't get this whole "vs" business that keeps coming up from newbies (maybe they have identity problems)

I own a tie dye mirage. When you buy them like that, they make you sign a waiver stating you won't do RW with it

[Fast 0]

To call yourself an awesome or even good freeflier you should be able to belly fly too. If you can't you are not free to do as you wish you are limited, restricted even, by constraints that you alone impose upon yourself.

Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong...

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka