RSL

[Scrumpot 1]

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I said I would ride the plane down with an OFF cypress, what I needed to make clear (thought I had) was that the cypress being off is the least of the reasons I woud ride the plane down, its part of my gear check to MAKE SURE its on I'm not gonna trust the rest of my prep if something so basic was goofed.

My understanding is that if the Cypres is off, even if it has shut off because it detected a malfunction (in it's systems), then that is it. There should be no excess risk or added danger in say sudden activation because it is OFF. Cypres' do not spontaneously recycle back to "ON". But maybe someone else with more definitive knowledge can further comment on that.

As far as losing faith as a result of hearing that in your at-jumprun gear/pin check report ...at your experience level, I suppose (and agree) that you probably should be cut some slack for now wanting to ride the plane down. Anytime you feel unsafe, this should be an option of yours without further fear of critisism. Only as your exerience increases will your ability to confidently discern "real" concerns become more innate. The whole idea is to get you there... more experienced that is... in the 1st place, over time after all.

Glad to see you've taken the time to re-read and consider all this. We ALL can become empassioned about our opinions on here from time-to-time, that's for sure! Once you are licensed; to have an RSL or not, to have a Cypres or not ...for now, still, these are all entirely your decision. Just learn about more thoroughly what exactly each one does, and under what circumstances and conditions, then make an INFORMED decision as to which is best for YOU and your circumstances accordingly.

Hope all this has helped!
Blue Skies,
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Ron 10]

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I got it in my head from his (ron's) first reply that this was a slugging match and am too bull headed to back off, the sad part is I've re-read the posts and he really didn't come at me hard in the beginning

See everyone...I'm really not jerk

And my big issue is I care so much about keeping people safe...I'm like a pit bull. I don't TRY to be...but I just am...

Trust me when I say this..."I will do whatever I can to save you from the stupid things I have done. I am lucky to be alive, and some of my best friends were not so lucky."

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what gets me riled up is being told my Opionion is wrong, that my use of safety gear means I'm one of "them" those that use tech to replace skill and training.

And you may not be...But you have said things that makes me think you are. You have also said a few things that might make me think you are not. But the litmus test is simple...Go jump with out an AAD or RSL..Not for me, but to prove it to yourself. It's the only way you are going to know. If you will not do it...then you are Dependant...If it scares the hell out of you...You are Dependant.

Dependant may not be bad.....But the atitude that saftey toys can replace training IS. You have not been around long enough to have seen this trend. Several others with 10+ years do see this trend. You can't tell if you are in that grounp or not since you simply don't know what it was like pre poplular AAD.

Back in the day, the first jump without an AAD was a big deal. It was proving something to yourself..there were other benefits as well..The "experienced" rental rigs didn't have AAD's but they were better looking, more comfertable, and had better canopies...You were an "up" jumper when you were allowed to jump without an AAD. People looked at you with a different respect.

Now if you jump without an AAD you are looked at like an idiot.

Where and when did individual responsability suddenly go out of fashion?

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I see a diff between choosing a cypress because it exists and being dependent on it, Ron aparently dosn't

No, I see abig difference....I choose to jump an AAD...But I have 700 jumps without one, and some of those were as recent as this mth.

Choosing to have one means you would rather have one...but it is not needed.

Depending on one is you will not jump without it.

There is a big difference between those two.

If you will not jump without something...you are dependant on it. (Well I have two BASE jumps...but thats kinda different).

I am dependant on a reserve....I jump a canopy that is known to mal a lot (and I have choped it 5 times). If I didn't have a reserve...I would jump a PD 146 as a main in a freebag, not my current main.

Dependence and using it as a ticket to lack of training are two issues that are related.

And I have seen the connection several times...That I would say that most people who are dependent on saftey toys are becuase they are unsure of themselves...The bst way to be confident is to train, not buy cool saftey toys.

Now if you already train like hell and just ADD the cool saftey toys...thats smart. But I and others have seen a lack of training in todays jumpers. You and the other newre jumpers can't say that they are the same as the jumpers 10 years ago...simply casue you were not there 10 years ago. There are people jumping today that don't have the confidence to jump without an AAD or RSL...Thats bad if they don't have confidence in themself.

When I was learning how to fly...and had maybe 6 hours of flight time. I pulled the plane up to the FBO and jokingly told the instructor to get out. He looked at me like I was crazy. He made me go around the pattern again. Again I pulled up to the FBO and said "Get out". He told me to go around again. I pulled up to the FBO and stopped the plane. Before I could say anything he said "Yeah yeah...I'm getting out. Take it around 3 times and bring it back in one piece."

Later after I had my ticket I asked him "Is it better to have a cocky student, or a nervious one?" He told me that cocky is better, but confident without attitude is the best. He also told me that he never worried about me because while I was maybe over confident...I also always shut up when he started talking, never gave him attitude and never thought I knew better than him. He called me over confident, but not cocky.

Confidence is good....Jumping without an AAD or RSL can give you more confidence in YOURSELF, not just in the gear.

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I said I would ride the plane down with an OFF cypress, what I needed to make clear (thought I had) was that the cypress being off is the least of the reasons I woud ride the plane down, its part of my gear check to MAKE SURE its on I'm not gonna trust the rest of my prep if something so basic was goofed.

There we have a difference of opinion...I don't think of a CYPRES as a Basic. Its an addition. If I forgot to turn it on...It means I forgot to turn it on, nothing more. If Im not sure of my gear I would have someone I trust give me a gear check. If my pins are good, and my PC is cocked. I would go.

However, I would not preasure anyone to go if they didn't feel up to the task. But I think that a dead or off CYPRES is not a "NO-GO" item.

Still I would doubt a persons confidence level if they would not go. It would seem to me that they feel they are over their heads in that situation.

It is safer in that situation to ride the plane down...However, it does show a lack of confidence in themselves...And if they don't trust themself...Why should I?

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To Ron: I'll take a breath next time before replying and I'll try to keep 1 on thread and 2 make my statments clear the first time.

To Prartorian: I'll try not to be an ass and have a more relaxed approach....I would really not count on that working however . As Popeye said.."I yam what I yam, ARGHH!"

I would ask that you ignore my approach and just focus on the content rather than just ignore the post.

"I have a dream, I have a dream that one day my posts will be judged not by the delivery, but by the content of the post...I have a dream...." (sorry Dr. King)

Hey, I am not always right. I used to follow the 45 degree rule...Now that I think about it..I was not really looking for the 45 degrees as much as looking to see that we were far enough away from them...But I thought I was looking for the 45 degrees.

So I could be wrong..about individual people..But my thoughts on newer jumpers relying more on toys than themselves I still think is spot on.

But you have no real basis to compare if you have not been around long enough to know the other side of the story.

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TO FIRST TIME sorry your thread got hijacked

You didn't hijack it...I really hijacked the shit out of it however.

Just in this thread you learned something, and others have had thinsg they know questioned, or things they knew reinforced.


Ok Im gone.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[tbrown 26]

More than once I've notied at the end of the day that I'd forgotten to turn on my Cypres, I never really gave it a second thought -Jim

[firstime 0]

***I would ask that you ignore my approach and just focus on the content rather than just ignore the post.

I was the one who started this post and it was a question about the use of a RSL. Sorry it got out of hand

[Ron 10]

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I was the one who started this post and it was a question about the use of a RSL. Sorry it got out of hand

Don't be sorry. You should have done a search first since this topi has been beaten to death.

But did you learn something? If you did, don't be sorry..

There are no stupid questions.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[firstime 0]

I pretty much read all of the posts in detail and tried
to create that scenario and the pros on the RSL
outweigh the cons. Thanks all. Hey Ron your right,
I went back to look for prior posts and I unknowingly
dragged that dead carcas out of the closet for a fresh
beating. Blue skies everyone.