feuergnom 28 #1 March 16, 2004 this weekend i had a close call under canopy - so thats the story and what i learned from it (and i hope there's some information for all you folks out there) did a 4-way (uneventful). the break-off alti was set for 1.500 meters (est. 4.500 ft). first mistake: we didn't break off and finished the last point instead. shouldn't be a big deal so far, but until separation we made an extra 900 ft. turned 180 & tracked ot of the formation - but next big mistake - far to short: just five seconds deployed (alti on protrack said 850 meters/approx 2500 ft) and my canopy had an off-heading opening and banked a nice 180 degrees back - shit! just as i grabbed my rear riser to get back in the original heading i saw the canopy of one of my team mates appear on my left side friggin close!. he had some line-twists and didn't really notice what was happening. i just managed to get away from him by doing another turn with my left rear riser (didn't find any time to unstow the brakes before). landed really shaken. what we found out afterwards (analyzing the video i made): my track was far to short - big, big mistake! my team mate tracked longer, but what i didn't know, was that he's not very good at it. he loses more alti than gaining horizontal separation. i had an off heading opening that sent me in the direction i tracked away from - he had the same. that sent us flying towards each other on more or less the same level the whole sequence - from taking a look into my opening canopy from realizing he was coming my way until i managed to get away lasted 7 seconds (timed from the video)! lesson to learn: break off at the set break alti - no matter where you are in turning points! track and track hard! make sure you know how the others track you are jumping with (i'm just wondering how i can find out the next time - any input in this is highly appreciated!) attached are 3 pics - the rest you can find at the german stammtisch (saving bandwidth) hope that's the appropriate forum to post this & that you can avoid my mistakes! ps: if anybody is interested in the vid pm me - i'll mail itThe universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livnbored 0 #2 March 16, 2004 EIYIYI!!!! glad you're still with us. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 March 16, 2004 Is this a regular team or just some folks getting together impromtu? If it's a regular team, have your camera flyer pop his wings at deployment altitude (so the team falls away) and have him continue to watch the track off for a short while as his canopy is coming out of the bag. Then when he dubs, have him always pause on the last person leaving the frame or on any other break off problems. Make your camera flyer make your team more safe.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 28 #4 March 16, 2004 okay - i think a wasn't as clera as i wanted to be - so i'll explain this is a forming team me 260+ jumps, two of my teachers (combined something like 8000+ jumps) & another jumper 120+ jumps we dont have a video guy - the pics come from my camera, i'm carrying it all the time just to get used to it (but i dont put much attention on what i shoot, i focus on the program) so what you see is exactly what i saw i agree that it would indeed be very interesting to have an outside view of this near miss (to get even some more grey hair) (for its 1.30 in the morning local time i'm off to bed - will come back during day-time - sometimes different time-zones can be very annoying…) edit for the worst spelling mistakesThe universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TribalTalon 0 #5 March 16, 2004 why didnt you turn right, if he was to your left? just wondering. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #6 March 16, 2004 Look at number 8. He did turn right.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dkf1979 0 #7 March 16, 2004 Reminds me of a valuble lesson I learned when I was about 7 or 8. "I have an idea!! Lets ride our bikes really fast at each other and then at the last second, you go left, and i'll go right. Yeah yeah. Remember, you are left! I am right. Don't forget or we'll crash!! Ha! Ha! I know i'm not stupid!" Stupid kids. http://bodypilot.bounceme.net Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #8 March 16, 2004 We all make mistakes. The trick is surviving the situations we get ourselves into, and you did a good job with the hand you were dealt. Well done. Quotemake sure you know how the others track you are jumping with If you can track like the wind, you're never going to need to know that stuff. Tracking is a survival skill. It's your hyperspace button in a live game of Asteroids.(Asuming you're old enough to know what the hell I'm talking about..) Practice, fine tune, perfect. Do some tracking dives and hone those skills. Get hold of a Canopy Formation coach and do some Canopy formation dives. That way, when it all goes to pieces, you'll at least know what to do in a wrap/entanglement. Wraps can be entertaining when you know both of you have the time and the options to escape alive if you work together. Entanglements? I've never had a fun one. Speeds are higher and options go down as the ground comes up.. Buy and carry a high quality hook knife (or two) and wear them on EVERY dive you do. Again. Good job on going right. If you wanted to dock him, that last pic (8) required only a touch of left riser and a little brake... tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 28 #9 March 16, 2004 QuoteIt's your hyperspace button in a live game of Asteroids.(Asuming you're old enough to know what the hell I'm talking about..) yeah - i'm old enough (but most of the time i used that damned button i ended up in a worse situation than the one i left Get hold of a Canopy Formation coach and do some Canopy formation dives. pretty good idea - but up to now i haven't found some crw-dawgs in austria but i'll get two - no better three – of them coool hook knifes for sure so i'll look like a real mean mofo skydiver ps: i was a bit hesitant making the original post (fear of getting bashed) - so thanks for making this fear look stupidThe universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #10 March 16, 2004 CRW Dawg's answer to the question.. "Why the hell are you wearing 4 hook knives?" Because I couldn't find room for a 5th? In reality, the only reason for wearing 2 is if you drop the 1st cos you're over amping. Your comment on Asteroids is noted, but can be solved with good exit seperation between groups. We're all afraid of being bashed when we post that we screwed up. Those that bash usually have not yet screwed up. (or survived) You've learned a lot, and gained experience. Remember, experience is what you get when you don't get what you want. Thanks for the post. I'm sure many of us have learned from it, and others reminded of how narrow our margins can become if we trim them down a little. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #11 March 16, 2004 "them coool hook knifes for sure" Don't waste time, effort, or money on the little hook knives, they are not worth a toss. Get a Jack knife or equivalent Raptor (big handle, big opposed blades), typical knives are here. I've seen suitable diver's net knives as well. https://www.square1.com/Manufacturers/Square1/cat212.html Can you imagine the endless fun you would have fiddling with a shitty wee blunt knife in the middle of a wrap.....-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #12 March 16, 2004 Definitely schedule some tracking dives for your team's next training weekend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBachelor 5 #13 March 16, 2004 One thing you did RIGHT that people should note: On deployment, have your rear risers in hand as soon as possible, and be ready to turn if needed to avoid a collision.There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DanG 1 #14 March 17, 2004 It is also a good idea to look around while you are tracking. You should be able to identify where the other people in your group are and which way they are heading so it will be less of a suprise if you find yourself near someone. Otherwise, good job avoiding a collision. - Dan G - Dan G Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Designer 0 #15 March 17, 2004 Humm,this happens.Alot more the more people you add to the equation.Good tracking skills are a "Must" when doing 4-Way RW and larger RW.Most of us have had a few of these alot closer than yours.Know what to do in the split second you have flight control after opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygirl1 1 #16 March 17, 2004 Thank you for posting that. I am just learning to track and alot of the questions running through my head were answered on this post. I have seen close calls under canopy that involved jumpers with thousands of jumps. I am glad you landed safely... skygirl1" Mean people SUCK!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakydiver 0 #17 March 22, 2004 ?????? -- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." -- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
