sweep 0 #26 February 1, 2005 Sorry Jumpmunki but I have to disagree with a lot of what you've said.... Quotejumpers sueing jumpers? i say we go to whoever it is who is doing it and have a word. insurance is a ripoff at the best of times, but as soon as the company that is covering all of us as members realises they are the only one that will cover it the cost will go up and up again. As I understand it the insurers already know they are the only brokers who can offer cover. I also think they are doing a very good job at keeping the premium down in the circumstances. If you add up the payouts over the last few years against the total we've actually paid you'll see they haven't made a lot of money at all out of us. In fact I know that one of the reasons for the big hike last year was that they had consistently paid out more than they had taken. The fact that no other insurer was prepared to cover us, at any price, is an indication of how poor our claims history has been over the last few years. Of course that needs to be addressed and equally we all know a commercial company is looking to make a profit but I think the current insurers are working very hard to offer us a deal they can afford. Also bear in mind that if you manage to die jumping, with or without a canopy, your relatives aren't going to start getting chased by the person who's car/house/wife you crashed into. That's got to be worth something. Quote craig, i'm sorry again for having a bitch, but i feel like everything about UK skydiving is expensive. i don't feel the mag is of benefit to me particularly and also feel that if the people who didn't want it opted out then they wouldn't have to get so many produced. That idea doesn't really bear out in fact though. Producing half as many or a quarter as many would reduce the cost by significantly less than the fraction as printing always gets cheaper per copy the more you print. I agree that the mag isn't all it could be, I'd personally like to see more text than at present, even if it meant losing some of the pictures. I think articles on safety, training, skill development, perhaps a more in-depth look at some of the incidents and so on would add to the mag (compare it to Parachutist or Skydiving) but as a concept I think it is a good tool and there are some parts that serve a good purpose in keeping the membership informed. Quote i have alot of deaf jumpers who have been really annoyed that an interpreter wasn't provided when it could have been. while the bpa asked for someone to do it for them on the cheap i think that if the budget was spent on things that were actually benficial for the members i wouldn't mind paying it. but the only benfit i have seen from my membership is a magazine. What about : - You were trained by skilled, current instructors responsible to a professional body for their conduct. - The planes you jump from are all insured, maintained and converted to be suitable for jumping. They're flown by properly qualified pilots, in liason with other airspace users, using fuel which has been properly stored and checked daily. - Your drop-zones have properly qualified staff heading things up and a responsible DZ controller clearing drops, counting canopies, observing landings, ensuring off-landers are attended to and that the people on your lift are suitably qualified, skilled and kitted up for the jumps they are doing. - Your rigger has a full set of technical standards for your equipment and documentation and tools to ensure your kit remains in good condition to save your life every time you jump. - Everyone has a clear set of rules to operate to, but any or all of those rules can be changed at any time if a majority of the CCIs or Riggers feel that a change is appropriate. - Every serious or fatal incident is investigated by at least two separate groups of Advanced Instructors and Instructor Examiners, who recommend changes specific to the incident in question and looking at the broader picture to ensure that your training, equipment and DZ operations give you the best chance of survival. - All malfunctions, deployment problems, off-landings, injuries (however minor) are reported to STC and when patterns are noted these too are investigated. - Your DZ is inspected regularly by people who understand the sport to make sure their systems and operations are legal, safe and effective. And to make sure that there is a large hazard-free landing area as well as provision for out landings. That body have extremely wide-ranging powers to take a range of disciplinary action against anyone and everyone who puts people at risk, and is not driven by the commercial concerns of the drop zone involved. - You have a national body which liases with the government and other agencies in the UK and Europe to ensure the continuing development of the sport and make sure we can keep on operating around the other users of Britain's extremely congested airspace. - You have competitions to compete in with proper judging and training standards. And that's just the start of what the BPA does every day although it might slip by the attention of many people because it happens in the background. In fact just looking at that list I'm amazed we get that part of our membership so cheaply especially when you consider how few of us there actually are putting into the pot. Quotehowever i do feel that the uk skydiving community could club together with the bpa as backing and start making a difference too drive down the costs of insurance and other related things and in turn the bpa having to put the membership costs years on year in order to cover it. I think, with the exception of the insurance, you'll find that the other parts of the membership haven't gone up that much in the last few years. And I think that most of us are making a drive to cut insurance claims. The new CH1-CH4 canopy handling grades are in part a response to the insurers (not to mention the CAA) getting very twitchy about the number of deaths and serious injuries under open canopies. I know that insurance is an area that the Council are working very hard on. What we need to do is really start taking responsibility on ourselves to : a) take notice of what's happening in the sport and try to reduce the number of incidents and injuries that happen needlessly. b) stop suing each other! Quote what i was annoyed with was seeing something int he statement last year about a four figure sum being given to create a display or something in the office? and money being shovelled into a website that is very hard to navigate and find things on ... I don't disagree that some parts of the website could be easier to navigate - although I don't think it's terrible. But if you look at what's on it I think it's an extremely useful resource. After all, where else can you find : - All the forms you're ever likely to need for anything. - The minutes of all the council, committee, STC, Riggers and Pilots meetings fresh off the press for your information, so you can see for yourself what's happening, what the BPA are doing about the things we care about, how many students twisted their ankles walking down the DZ on their RAPS course, what modifications the riggers want to make to the equipment you use...... - Various safety-related articles, info on progression, info on places to jump, contact details for all the council members and BPA staff, news and lots of other stuff. Of course it could be improved. Anything can. Should we have it? YES! Maybe I come across as naive but I generally believe the BPA does an excellent job. It costs more than other countries but there are a number of people who believe the BPA does more than them. And of course there really aren't that many of us in this country. Sweep---- Yay! I'm now a 200 jump wonder.... Still a know-it-all tho.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skytash 0 #27 February 1, 2005 Quote craig, i'm sorry again for having a bitch, but i feel like everything about UK skydiving is expensive. i don't feel the mag is of benefit to me particularly and also feel that if the people who didn't want it opted out then they wouldn't have to get so many produced. That idea doesn't really bear out in fact though. Producing half as many or a quarter as many would reduce the cost by significantly less than the fraction as printing always gets cheaper per copy the more you print. I agree that the mag isn't all it could be, I'd personally like to see more text than at present, even if it meant losing some of the pictures. I think articles on safety, training, skill development, perhaps a more in-depth look at some of the incidents and so on would add to the mag (compare it to Parachutist or Skydiving) but as a concept I think it is a good tool and there are some parts that serve a good purpose in keeping the membership informed. Quote Just a comment in general (not to sweep or jumpmunki) about the content of the mag. If you write an article on anything; safety, a skydiving discipline or a boogie, there are pretty high chances that it will be printed. Lesley often has to go 'round asking people to write articles about things. If you know of someone whose knowledge you would like to see shared in the mag, try convincing them to write about it, or if they don't want to, interview them and submit it as an interview article. I'm pretty sure it will be considered! tashDon't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites G.Anvil 0 #28 February 1, 2005 Does anyone know if its true that our overseas third party cover has been removed next year? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites moth 0 #29 February 1, 2005 why is the mag subscription compulsive £22 a year for a mag that i only read because i am forced to pay for it. Iwould rather use that money for another jump Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jumpmunki 0 #30 February 2, 2005 i'm not dening that the BPA does a great job, but somehow i feel that some of the things the bpa decide and do isn't really for the best of it's members. yeah all the forms are on the website, how do you get to them? (retorical question) i've yet to be able to find the page without having to go to google. the website (after what has been put up for buget for it) should be easy to navigate as a minimum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites yoink 321 #31 February 2, 2005 QuoteBPA membership is noticeably down this year… I wonder how much of that can be accounted for by jumpers only skydiving abroad? heh! did you notice that the BPA solely attributed the drop in membership to the 'poor weather' we had this year - apparently it was nothing to do with the 160% increase in fees over 2 years! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #32 February 2, 2005 Yes, I heard that... together with an audible stir in the membership when the Chairman made the comment. I think at best that has to be put down to an "optimistic" interpretation of the figures... although a cynic might well say they "glossed over" the potential link. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jumpmunki 0 #33 February 2, 2005 got a couple of pm's from people saying i'm out of order saying what i said or whatever.. i'm not knocking what the bpa do, just sometimes how they do it they do a great job at 90% of things. i also agree i could have said my piece in a more constructive way ! so again, apologies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Adriandavies 0 #34 February 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteBPA membership is noticeably down this year… I wonder how much of that can be accounted for by jumpers only skydiving abroad? heh! did you notice that the BPA solely attributed the drop in membership to the 'poor weather' we had this year - apparently it was nothing to do with the 160% increase in fees over 2 years! My first reaction to the BPA statement was also quite sarcastic but having looked at the EGM write up I now think that the BPA were referring to temporary membership ie the membership students on first jump courses or who take tandem skydives take out Last year's relatively poor weather would affect this type of jumper more than any other. The price rise still sucks though! At least my home DZ has just softened the blow by having an bulk payment discount on jump tickets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
G.Anvil 0 #28 February 1, 2005 Does anyone know if its true that our overseas third party cover has been removed next year? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moth 0 #29 February 1, 2005 why is the mag subscription compulsive £22 a year for a mag that i only read because i am forced to pay for it. Iwould rather use that money for another jump Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpmunki 0 #30 February 2, 2005 i'm not dening that the BPA does a great job, but somehow i feel that some of the things the bpa decide and do isn't really for the best of it's members. yeah all the forms are on the website, how do you get to them? (retorical question) i've yet to be able to find the page without having to go to google. the website (after what has been put up for buget for it) should be easy to navigate as a minimum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #31 February 2, 2005 QuoteBPA membership is noticeably down this year… I wonder how much of that can be accounted for by jumpers only skydiving abroad? heh! did you notice that the BPA solely attributed the drop in membership to the 'poor weather' we had this year - apparently it was nothing to do with the 160% increase in fees over 2 years! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #32 February 2, 2005 Yes, I heard that... together with an audible stir in the membership when the Chairman made the comment. I think at best that has to be put down to an "optimistic" interpretation of the figures... although a cynic might well say they "glossed over" the potential link. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpmunki 0 #33 February 2, 2005 got a couple of pm's from people saying i'm out of order saying what i said or whatever.. i'm not knocking what the bpa do, just sometimes how they do it they do a great job at 90% of things. i also agree i could have said my piece in a more constructive way ! so again, apologies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adriandavies 0 #34 February 21, 2005 QuoteQuoteBPA membership is noticeably down this year… I wonder how much of that can be accounted for by jumpers only skydiving abroad? heh! did you notice that the BPA solely attributed the drop in membership to the 'poor weather' we had this year - apparently it was nothing to do with the 160% increase in fees over 2 years! My first reaction to the BPA statement was also quite sarcastic but having looked at the EGM write up I now think that the BPA were referring to temporary membership ie the membership students on first jump courses or who take tandem skydives take out Last year's relatively poor weather would affect this type of jumper more than any other. The price rise still sucks though! At least my home DZ has just softened the blow by having an bulk payment discount on jump tickets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
