Terminal-V 0 #1 January 31, 2005 Hey everyone, I am just curious about being a packer. Do you work through the DZ or is it just everyone for themselves. The last thing I want to do is step on someone elses turf and get them angry. I need some info on DZs in my areea (deland, spacecenter, lake walles, z-hills) and if you do work for them is it when ever you can or is it scheduled. I just got a job at SkyVenture and have to be flexable. How do you get started doing this? it wouldnt be for a while but when I am ready it will help pay for jumps. Thanks, Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 January 31, 2005 Talk to the DZs you want to possibly work at. They mostlikely have a head packer (possibly/probably a rigger) who will be overseeing your work. Some places have a packing concession. Overall, here's a quick rundown: 1. Be a good packer with clean and neat looking packjobs. 2. Understand that if you pack a mal that you should pay for the repack, although it may not be required. Remember, someone's life is in your hands. You can pack an opening that will open so hard that it can cause permininant injury or death.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ninjaswooper 0 #3 January 31, 2005 QuoteTalk to the DZs you want to possibly work at. They mostlikely have a head packer (possibly/probably a rigger) who will be overseeing your work. Some places have a packing concession. Overall, here's a quick rundown: 1. Be a good packer with clean and neat looking packjobs. 2. Understand that if you pack a mal that you should pay for the repack, although it may not be required. Remember, someone's life is in your hands. You can pack an opening that will open so hard that it can cause permininant injury or death. Great advice on the being a good acker Dave, but "understand that if you pack a mal that you should pay for the repack?" Are you serious Dave? You're throwing some fabric and lines into a 120+ mile per hour wind and expecting any possible outcome to be solely the responsibility of the person who stuffed it in the bag? This assumes that we could even determine with any certainty what the specific mal was and it's cause. But as we know virtually the only mal completely pointing a finger at a packer is a misrouted bridle. Then again, it's the responsibility of every jumper to check bridle routing, pilot chute cocking, etc. OK, so your main blows up because somebody didn't unstow the slider, packer should probably be held responsible. But I think the point I'm making is clear, a packer should not feel that he/she should pay for the consequences of a mal, regardless of whether or not they are required to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #4 January 31, 2005 Packing Cathy requires any of her packers that packs a Mal directly attributed to the packing to pay for the repack out of their pocket. Last I knew Lake Wales had a head packer and a full packer schedule. The head packer is the rigger that sactually responcible for your packing till you have your own ticket. Call over there and talk to them about getting on as a packer. PM Rdutch about Deland, he packs there some times I think. Generally at most DZ's about 12 minutes is all you get per pack job. Sub 10 minutes is required on some packing mats if there are lots of 4 way teams so that 2 packers can have a team ready for 20 calls.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ninjaswooper 0 #5 January 31, 2005 QuotePacking Cathy requires any of her packers that packs a Mal directly attributed to the packing to pay for the repack out of their pocket. I'm aware that this is required by some packing concessions, I'm simply stating that in most cases mals are not so clear cut as to be directly attributable, and that a packer, though taking pride in his work, should not operate at all times under the spectre of fiscal responsibility. There's enough stress as it is and this is probably the lowest paying/ least appreciated/respected jobs at dropzones. Asking someone who makes a 6th of the money for a zillionth the fun to take full financial responsibility for the results of what could only be described as a rather chaotic situation is ludicrous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #6 January 31, 2005 QuoteI'm aware that this is required by some packing concessions, I'm simply stating that in most cases mals are not so clear cut as to be directly attributable, and that a packer, though taking pride in his work, should not operate at all times under the spectre of fiscal responsibility. Huh...My last reserve ride had a lineover so bad that when it cleared it cleared the wrong way leaving me with a line going all the way around the canopy, spinning me and my passenger much faster then I could have ever guessed an EZ-384 could have spun. So I guess you're saying that it was an evil magical midget instead of a packer not taking care to keep the lines in the middle of the packjob? I was a DZ's staff packer for a good while, if I caused a mal I was paying for the repack. If a jumper had a "jumper" mal, then its their problem. If I packed a packer mal (lineover, etc) and then I was paying for their repack and I stopped everything I was doing to help find their main and freebag. With that said, I never did pack anything that was chopped (not saying that I was perfect, just nothing super drastic).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #7 January 31, 2005 QuoteThere's enough stress as it is and this is probably the lowest paying/ least appreciated/respected jobs at dropzones. Huh? Now that's funny, I don't care who ya' are. Sorry, but I know packers that can walk away with $1000 a weekend.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #8 January 31, 2005 At least as far as I understand, packers are the one DZ job whose income hasn't raised in many, many years. I have heard that $5 pack jobs have been around for a long time. I would have to call BS on the $1000. Unless they are getting more than $5 a job, then they are doing 10 mins a pack job for almost 17 hours straight; even 8 min jobs are almost 13.5 hours straight. But then again, they are working damn hard for that money. There is nothing "fun" about packing. You can at least do a nice swoop at the end of all but the worst of AFF/Coach jumps. I do base this on $5 packjobs, if they are making considerably more, then such is the case, but that seems to be a rarity in my experience. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nate_1979 9 #9 January 31, 2005 I would have never thought, until reading this thread, that anyone would be able to expect a packer to do jack if you have a malfunction.... I always figured that once you took the gear it's your responsibility and your problem.. Figured it was a disadvantage of using a packer, you wanna know it's good do it yourself? Dont really know what I'm trying to say, but I know that personally I would not think of holding a packer to be responsible for what happens to me in the sky... Always had the feeling that I am 100% responsible for myself and everything that happens once I choose to exit that door.. FGF #??? I miss the sky... There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #10 January 31, 2005 Packin cathy is the queen of packers in my book and I wouldn't doubt that she's personally packed 200 rigs on at least one weekend Some of the other things that go along with packing: Hands that are calloused and cut up. Work your butt off Bad back Bad knee's hyperactivity Sweat Some customers try not to pay. Some days no money due to weather. If your into nylon Pack till you puke!! R.i.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #11 January 31, 2005 QuoteI do base this on $5 packjobs, if they are making considerably more, then such is the case, but that seems to be a rarity in my experience. Our packers charge $5 a packjob, but most people I know tip extra. I pay around $7 per packjob.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dzkid39 0 #12 January 31, 2005 Dude i should start packing for people like you then. I almost never get anything over $5. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #13 January 31, 2005 I take care of my packer, and he takes care me.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stacy 0 #14 January 31, 2005 Also watch before you just *set up shop* msot large DZs have organized businesses as packing concessions and packers are required to work through them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #15 January 31, 2005 Quote Sorry, but I know packers that can walk away with $1000 a weekend. Tax freeMay your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #16 January 31, 2005 For me hiring a packer for my sports rig is because i am lazy, if i was to hold them responsible for a malfunction, i would pay them more. Packers work alot harder than most other people on a dropzone. Get some knee pads .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #17 January 31, 2005 QuoteThere's enough stress as it is and this is probably the lowest paying/ least appreciated/respected jobs at dropzones. -------------------------------------------------------------- Huh? Now that's funny, I don't care who ya' are. Sorry, but I know packers that can walk away with $1000 a weekend. Yup, i admit i make a ton of money on a good weekend. And most of my regular customers appreciate me very much. I'm asked frequently throughout the day if i want something to drink, Stewie usually offers to buy me lunch when i'm packing for him. Most of my customers tip me about $1 per pack job. And drinks later that night in the bar are usually provided by my customers too. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #18 January 31, 2005 The highest paid employee (other than the owner of the entire airport and all the buildings and airplanes) at Raeford is a packer. Even as manager/chief instructor/full-time AFF and tandem guy I never came close to making what Liz made in a month. Still, packing is not "skydiving for a living" so I didn't mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beezyshaw 0 #19 January 31, 2005 QuoteI was a DZ's staff packer for a good while, if I caused a mal I was paying for the repack. If a jumper had a "jumper" mal, then its their problem. If I packed a packer mal (lineover, etc) and then I was paying for their repack... Contrary to popular belief, just because a canopy opens with a lineover doesn't mean it was "caused" by a poor pack job. I have made many of hundreds of test jumps as a canopy manufacturer using slow motion video to study deployments, and "garbage out" doesn't necessarily mean that there was "garbage in". If I were packing parachutes for wages, and someone demanded I pay for their reserve repack, I think I'd have to tell that person to shove their reserve where the sun don't shine! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #20 January 31, 2005 QuoteContrary to popular belief, just because a canopy opens with a lineover doesn't mean it was "caused" by a poor pack job. I have made many of hundreds of test jumps as a canopy manufacturer using slow motion video to study deployments, and "garbage out" doesn't necessarily mean that there was "garbage in". Would you say that as a majority, it would be a packjob or not? Educate me. Actually, this might be worth another thread over in G&R if you're willing to start one. I bet a lot of people could learn from it.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #21 January 31, 2005 $5 per pack job should not include a reserve repack. Now if you are willing to pay $7 or $8 per pack job, maybe ... Most of the time, this whole argument about asking packers to pay for reserve repacks is about whiny yuppies refusing to take responsibility for their own sloppy body position during deployment and trying to convince someone else to pay for their mistakes. Yes, packers get paid better than this Master Rigger, TI, PFF/I, IAD/I, inside videographer, etc. but they also work far harder than me. I do not begrudge them the money on busy days. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #22 January 31, 2005 >I am just curious about being a packer. . . . How do you get started doing this? Easy; get your rigger's ticket. It is illegal for a non-rigger to repack someone else's main (unless they plan to jump it.) Everyone breaks this rule. But it is a FAR, and getting your rigger's ticket will make you ten times the packer - and will give you a competitive advantage. Plus you can repack people's reserves if you pack a mal (although that won't be much of an issue, since your packing skills will be that much better to begin with.) Another consideration is liability - consider if you want to have a lawyer come after you for intentionally breaking the law for your own profit and thus causing someone's death (that's in lawyerspeak of course.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beezyshaw 0 #23 January 31, 2005 I certainly agree, Bill, that a packer having a rigger ticket is a good idea. However, FAR 105 was recently revised (like the inclusion of tandem jumps, etc.), and 105.43 was changed to allow for "supervision" by a rigger when packing a main canopy... "(a) The main parachute must have been packed within 120 days before the date of its use of a certificated parachute rigger, the person making the next jump with that parachute, or a non-certificated person under the direct supervision of a certification parachute rigger." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beezyshaw 0 #24 January 31, 2005 Quote"Would you say that as a majority, it would be a packjob or not?" If I had to give the occurance of lineovers a number, I'd say that probably 60% to 70% are induced by poor packing, and around 30% random "acts of unkindness". Line overs are one of the malfunctions that do seem to be begging to occur when you pull too much of the tail around on a pro pack, or roll the tail too much (therefore bringing those center cell lines and control lines near the leading edge of the canopy. A lot of people don't realize this, but if you want to lessen the chance of this malfunction, flat pack your canopy. Before pro packing, line overs on square canopies was virtually unheard of. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Designer 0 #25 January 31, 2005 I charge $5 dollars except for 190 sq. ft. and above.($6)Think I provide a pretty good service all and all.I also work hard with helping the pilot start the plane everytime.So,normally any day that I walk away with $100 plus is a good hard working day(20 pack jobs).Best I have ever done in a day was $230.Pretty sure I "Don't" want to work at a jump factory!That is just the way I feel.You might feel different.rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
