what goes along with getting a job as a packer??

[tombuch 0]

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Thanks for the answer.

>The FAA comments regarding the NPRM were included in the Federal Register on April 13, 1999 and May 9, 2001.

These are only proposed rules or have they incorporated into the FAR?

ooops you answered that. You said your comments were incorporated into the final rule regarding supervision.

This is the FAA discussion of the topic as listed in the Federal Register, May 9, 2001:
***Proposal: The FAA proposed to define the term ``supervision'' as
the act of a certificated rigger personally observing the packing of a
parachute by a noncertificated person to the extent necessary to ensure
that it is being done properly.
Comments: Several commenters recommend revising the proposed
definition of the term ``supervision'' to include that the certificated
rigger is readily available in person for consultation. One commenter
recommends that the definition be amended to state that a certificated
rigger also ``. . . takes responsibility for that packing.''
FAA response: The FAA agrees with the comment that a certificated
rigger needs to be available during the packing process. The FAA has
adopted a revised definition in the final rule to address this concern
by changing ``supervision'' to ``direct supervision.'' Although the
term ``direct supervision'' was not used in the NPRM, the FAA believes
that adding the word ``direct'' clarifies the FAA's intent that a
certificated rigger must be on the premises during the parachute
packing process. The certificated rigger's presence ensures that he/she
is readily available in person for consultation.
In addition, the FAA agrees with the commenters that direct
supervision includes taking responsibility for the packing. Therefore,
the phrase ``and takes responsibility for that packing'' has been added
to the term ``direct supervision'' in the final rule.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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that the extra weight, and yes, extra time an extremely large parachute takes me to pack is probably worth about a 5th of a normal size pack job in opportunity cost. In the extra time I spend with that huge mfer... i could be a fifth of the way into a smaller pack job making the same 5 bucks...

If you are a good packer that will only cost you one or two full pack jobs in a day.

Personally, I recommend to anyone that has to pay more than $5/pack to find another packer.

FYI - on those large student rigs I was only making about $4.50/pack. If I wanted more I could have packed tandems for closer to $9/pack.

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As for the cock this, unstow that bs, I'd prefer you leave it to me since I'm going to have to check it anyway.

Agreed.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[ninjaswooper 0]

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Personally, I recommend to anyone that has to pay more than $5/pack to find another packer.

[/reply}

Personally, I recommend that people only pay what they think nice, consistent openings and being able to make any load they want without busting their own ass is worth to them.

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[kelpdiver 2]

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As for the cock this, unstow that bs, I'd prefer you leave it to me since I'm going to have to check it anyway.

So am I wasting everyone's time stowing the brakes? I could get out of the immediate LZ faster if I didn't do that before daisy chaining.

[riggerrob 643]

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Does getting your ticket make you responsible for other packers' work? I was told by several riggers that, if I am the only person in a packing area with a certificate, then I am responsible for directly supervising all the non-rigger's pack jobs. Please tell me it isn't true. I paid a lot of money to "legitamize" my packing, now I find out it makes me liable for others who haven't.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Only if they pay you 50 cents or a dollar out of everyone else's pack jobs.
If management refuses to pay you extra for supervising, then put your head down, focus on your own pack job and refer all questions to management.

[jsaxton 0]

It's heavier
That's why tandems generally pay $10

[johnny1488 1]

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Agreed! A good packer will not have any issues packing a bigger canopy.

I take a bit of offense for this one!

I charged 6$ for 170 and over this year (I think there might be an increase this year.)

I definetly charge more for larger canopies. I can do 4 smaller canopies in a 20 minute call. I can not do 4 larger canopies in that time. I turn big canopies away a lot, but then they decide thay want to pay more. I make time for people who pay me.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[sunshine 2]

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Agreed! A good packer will not have any issues packing a bigger canopy.
----------------------------------------------------------
I take a bit of offense for this one!

I charged 6$ for 170 and over this year (I think there might be an increase this year.)

I definetly charge more for larger canopies. I can do 4 smaller canopies in a 20 minute call. I can not do 4 larger canopies in that time. I turn big canopies away a lot, but then they decide thay want to pay more. I make time for people who pay me.

The oil change place & car wash charges more for vans than it does for cars... Makes perfect sense to me to charge more for something bigger. If someone doesn't wanna pay me the extra $1, oh well, they can go find someone else.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Agreed! A good packer will not have any issues packing a bigger canopy.

I take a bit of offense for this one!

I charged 6$ for 170 and over this year (I think there might be an increase this year.)

I definetly charge more for larger canopies. I can do 4 smaller canopies in a 20 minute call. I can not do 4 larger canopies in that time. I turn big canopies away a lot, but then they decide thay want to pay more. I make time for people who pay me.

I packed for half of one of the ten way teams at SDC the weekend they were doing quick turnarounds (only going to 6-7k) in prep for Nationals. The smallest canopy was a 135 and I had a few 150, 170 and 190s to pack. Even with these large canopies and quick loads I was ready for them each time. When they finished practice before lunch I had close to 55 pack jobs. I kept pace with the other packer who was doing all of the smaller canopies (including the sub-100s).

I finished that day with 89 pack jobs. That was $445 in one day without the tips, free drinks and eventually the beer at the bonfire. I came close to nearly 200 packs over the course of the entire weekend. To put that into perspective, I made more than a TI doing 20 paid jumps that weekend.

A good packer will not have issues with time, speed or good openings with large canopies.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[billvon 2,990]

>A good packer will not have issues with time, speed or good openings
>with large canopies.

A more accurate statement would be that you do not have any issues with time, speed or openings with large canopies. I know several (quite good) packers who charge more for larger canopies. The good news is that people don't have to pay the extra money if they don't want to - and no doubt they will then gravitate towards people like you.

[kelpdiver 2]

[replyThe good news is that people don't have to pay the extra money if they don't want to - and no doubt they will then gravitate towards people like you.

[kelpdiver 2]

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The oil change place & car wash charges more for vans than it does for cars... Makes perfect sense to me to charge more for something bigger. If someone doesn't wanna pay me the extra $1, oh well, they can go find someone else.

Oil changers have a different rate?

My motorcycle uses about the same amount of oil as my wagon does. I'd expect minivans to also be in the same 4.5l range.

(OTOH, the dealer will charge about 3 times as much to do the bike, making that a very attractive one to DIY)

[sunshine 2]

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Oil changers have a different rate?

At my old job i paid the invoices on all our company cars and work vans. The vans were more expensive by about $5.

This thread is amusing. People that are currently packers have valuable opinions. People that worked as a packer like 2 years ago and doesn't do it anymore. Who cares what he has to say.

___________________________________________
meow

I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug!

[johnny1488 1]

I guess I am not a good packer. I need a certain amount of time to give a person the pack job I am comfortable with. If I cant give them the pack job I want in the time I am allotted I do not take the job. If I am not a good packer than I can live with that. But almost everyone I turned away stayed and waited or payed more. I will not trash pack. Maybe you are faster. I am not as fast as some of the other packers on my DZ, and i dont care. I still charge more for larger canopies and will continue to do so. My customers are happy to deal with me.

Johnny
--"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!"
Mike Rome

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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A more accurate statement would be that you do not have any issues with time, speed or openings with large canopies.

I can agree with that.

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no doubt they will then gravitate towards people like you.

I wish I could still do that. I had to quit packing due to a lower back injury (non-jump related).

However, even without being current as a packer I was able to pack a 135 and 170 after each load last Xmas vacation during the same time everyone else in our group packed one. If you really pay attention to packing and openings it becomes very easy to understand the quick, safe and right way to pack without trash packing. With enough practice anyone can do this. I know a few packers that I used to work with that have broken 100 packs in a day. (And I feel they are much better packers than I ever was).

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Jskydiver22 0]

Agreed!

Im just like that...i can pack 120's faster than a 190's so..why not charge more. If you can pack 190s in the same time it takes to pack a 120...then thats awesome and i see what your saying. But to me...a 190 is more than i want so an extra dollar would be worth it.

The person i pack for just got a brand new custom Sabre2 170 so its going to be fun dealing with that for awhile. He takes care of me, and i take care of him. I still never charged him an extra dollar for the 190 only because it was older and he brought me capachino in the morning

--I don't even know enough to know that I dont know--

[TheOtherPacker 0]

I see that most other packers charge a buck more because they dislike the larger canopies. That leads me to ask this question......are there any of you out there that are like me and prefer packing larger canopies over those nasty little napkins?

The only reason I think I enjoy the larger canopies is because I'm more comfortable with them. Working at a tandem based DZ I pack Vectors all day and would much sooner pack them or student canopies over the video guys rigs. So.....anyone?

[freakflyer9999 1]

Packing wears me out, so I make more jumps in a day when I pay a packer to at least after some of my jumps. Of course the DZ I'm at now doesn't have any paid packers, so I'm on my own, but my question:

Is $5 or $6 still a reasonable rate for a pack job. That's what it has been the entire 11 years that I've been in the sport.

Is it time to raise the price?

[lopullterri 0]

I have packed an "intentional line over"...on a main for an intentional cut-away, and watched it clear itself on deployment. The only mal I personally have seen that was "definately" packer error, was, no breakes stowed, which resulted in broken lines. The only other I can think of would be a total, caused by improper closing of the container.

~"I am not afraid. I was born to do this"~

[Shark 0]

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[replyThe good news is that people don't have to pay the extra money if they don't want to - and no doubt they will then gravitate towards people like you.

Or downsize!

[pms07 3]

***Great advice on the being a good acker Dave, but "understand that if you pack a mal that you should pay for the repack?" Are you serious Dave? You're throwing some fabric and lines into a 120+ mile per hour wind and expecting any possible outcome to be solely the responsibility of the person who stuffed it in the bag? This assumes that we could even determine with any certainty what the specific mal was and it's cause. But as we know virtually the only mal completely pointing a finger at a packer is a misrouted bridle. Then again, it's the responsibility of every jumper to check bridle routing, pilot chute cocking, etc. OK, so your main blows up because somebody didn't unstow the slider, packer should probably be held responsible. But I think the point I'm making is clear, a packer should not feel that he/she should pay for the consequences of a mal, regardless of whether or not they are required to.

[diablopilot 2]

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Welcome to the world of being responsible for your work and actions. In most circumstances I think this is an entirely reasonable policy

That's bullshit. As a rigger you should have a basic understanding of the chaos inherant in a parachute deployment.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[foreverfree 0]

What about you as the jumper or owner of the rig who accepts a non-rigger to pack your chute and then you agree to jump it?

What about the legality of the situation in case of a malfunction and you happen to live through it?

Are you not equally responsible as owner/jumper of that rig which you have chosen to use for yourself but have accepted a non-rigger to pack for you?

As a licensed jumper , where do you stand?

BORN FREE
LIVING FREE
FOREVER FREE
FALLING FREE

[ECVZZ 0]

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That's bullshit.

JP- While I generally agree that a packer shouldn't be held responsible for most mal's, I can guarantee you we would have a very serious discussion about it if it was packing induced (i.e. a line-over).

---

G. Jones

"I've never been quarantined. But the more I look around, the more I think it might not be a bad idea."

[dippymoo 0]

So, do you charge an extra dollar for canopies that are brand new? ***
i did