Pilot Mal

[skydude2000 3]

Hi everyone,

I've been jumping for a while now and I've been trained a certain way. I just want to get some other opinions. What is the best emergency procedure for a pilot chute in tow? Is a cutaway necessary?

Blue Skies,

Adam G.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[Nightingale 0]

what we learned from Stuart at safety day at Perris-

he said "if you've pulled anything, you need to cut away, because the pilot chute could still pull the pin, and cause a 2 out situation."

he also said something about when the reserve is out of the container, the pressure on the main pin is less, because there is more room in the container, so it could be easier for a pilot chute in tow to pull the pin once the reserve has left your back.

ask your instructor or S&TA for confirmation, as always. This is just what I was taught yesterday.

[gdmusumeci 0]

Disclaimer: I am a rank novice. You should ask this question of your instructors and other people who know what they are talking about.

It seems like there are two distinct schools of thought: a cutaway followed by reserve deployment, and just dumping your reserve.

I've heard two arguments in favor of cutting away. The first is that it keeps your emergency procedures consistent -- if you have a malfunction, you clear them all the same way. The second is that if your container is locked up because of pressure problems (which is probable), then the deployment of the reserve is likely to cause things to shift around enough to permit the main pin to dislodge, which would give you a two-out situation.

The arguments in favor of going to straight to the reserve are also pretty good. If you have a total malfunction like a container lock aka PC in tow, you are heading straight for the ground really fast -- your first priority should be getting something over your head post-haste. Another problem is getting the main risers entangled with your deploying reserve, perhaps irreparably.

The SIM mentions both as options, and I've heard skydivers I trust and respect on either side of the debate, so I think this is one of those situations where you have to think about the risks involved, make a decision, and train on it until your response is deep in muscle memory. Personally, I would go for the reserve without cutting away.

The best way to stop this sort of problem is gear maintenance, of course: make sure your closing loop is the right length and that your pilot chute is properly constructed and maintained. Bill Booth made a great post a while back talking about how to check your pilot chute function.

Blue skies! /gdm

[skymedic 0]

Quote

he said "if you've pulled anything, you need to cut away, because the pilot chute could still pull the pin, and cause a 2 out situation."

problem with this is as your main leaves it could snatch up your slider on your reserve and close off your reserve....RSL shackles can do this also if you have one installed. Some instructors will tell you to cut away, others will tell you not too. I personaly would deploy my main and deal with the two out situation if it even happens....two out leaves me with a chance, a fouled reserve because I jump an RSL and cutaway is NOT a good thing.

Marc
otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman....

[phoenixlpr 0]

I had that problem (from hopNpop )and Ive cuted away....

I had 2 fast mals. Ive cuted away, but my main was hanging on the RSL.

[fudd 0]

There are divided opinions about this one.
I've been stupid enough to get myself into the situation once: incident here.

I'd say cut away. It's a simpel plan.
No matter what you decide you will do the really important thing is to DO IT promptely.
With a pc in tow you are still at terminal so time is running out...

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[Nightingale 0]

That's just what i was told at safety day.

[riggerrob 643]

I agree with Nightingale.

[piisfish 140]

I would stick with nightingale too...
That's what I was taught and what I've always heard : anything came out, cutaway ...

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[diverdriver 5]

Quote

I would stick with nightingale too...
That's what I was taught and what I've always heard : anything came out, cutaway ...

Do you want to control what comes out? Or do you want stuff flopping around that could snag and collapse your reserve?

No thanks.

Priority #1: Prevent, prevent, prevent this situation from happening.
Priority #2: If this is a PC in tow on my rig I'm pulling reserve straight way. If two canopies then deploy I know what I can do about it.

I do not like playing Russian Roulette like you all with regards to cutting away on a PC in tow. Scary, scary.

Chris Schindler
www.diverdriver.com
ATP/D-19012
FB #4125

[pccoder 0]

I agree with you too. However I don't jump with an RSL so it's not even a consideration.

PcCoder.net

[Nightingale 0]

we talked about the RSL and concluded it wouldn't be an issue...

The RSL is connected from the main riser to the reserve pin. If you cutaway and pull reserve, and the deployment of the reserve causes the main malfunction to clear, the RSL is no longer an issue because the reserve pin has already been pulled, leaving the RSL with nothing to snag on. At that point, since you have silver in your hand, the RSL is only connected to the main and an itty bit of velcro, which, according to our safety day seminar, is not anywhere close to strong enough to hang up the main on the container and cause a mess.

[councilman24 37]

From the SIM:

"(2) hand-deployed pilot chute in tow
malfunction procedures (choose one):

(i) For a pilot-chute-in-tow malfunction, there are currently two common and acceptable procedures, both of which have pros and cons.

(ii) An instructor should be consulted prior to gearing up, and each skydiver should have a pre-determined course of action.

Pilot chute in tow procedure 1:
Pull the reserve immediately. A pilot-chute-in-tow malfunctions is associated with a high descent rate and requires immediate action. The chance of a main-reserve entanglement is slim, and valuable time and altitude could be lost by initiating a cutaway prior to deploying the reserve. Be prepared to cutaway.

Pilot chute in tow procedure 2:
Cut away, then immediately deploy the reserve. Because there is a chance the main parachute could deploy during or as a result of the reserve activation, a cutaway might be the best response in some situations."



Either answer is correct for a particular individual. There are two reasons given usually for recommending cutting away. One is to have one procedure for ALL reserve deployments. But, I believe using this logic, in one of the two fatalities I've investigated, the skydiver realized he was low, decided to deploy his reserve, and pulled the only handle that wouldn't save his life, the cutaway handle. Both main and reserve were never deployed. The other is as stated, that the tow may clear and the main deploy. In fact this happened in my PC in tow in 1987. But I would be dead if I had decided, on the ground, to cutaway from a PC in tow. I pulled the reserve immediately but as it was I went into the top of of the trees with partially open canopies. (from lack of time, not interference). With a PC in tow your still in freefall, already far below your opening altitude with maybe 10 secs left. ( Ok, if you pull high like a lot of newer jumpers maybe more) Do you want to waste what time you have left pulling the only handle that won't save your life? There was a lot of testing by the Knights and/or PD (don't remember which) trying to get two canopies coming out to interfer during opening and only once do I know of it happening during the intential trials. One bag ended up under the slider of the other canopy and held it up at the top. I don't remember which was which. So, things can go wrong. But I want to get something over my head, then I'll deal with two if necessary.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[winsor 236]

Quote

Hi everyone,

I've been jumping for a while now and I've been trained a certain way. I just want to get some other opinions. What is the best emergency procedure for a pilot chute in tow? Is a cutaway necessary?

Prevention is the best cure.

If you jump a pullout, you do not have a mechanism for either pilot chute in tow or horseshoe malfunctions. Either one of them is bad juju.

If you have initiated deployment at all, cut it away. Keep pulling handles 'til your goggles fill with blood.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[TribalTalon 0]

well, having personally having had a pilot chute in tow mal, even though it wasnt even a big deal in my case, what i did (NOTE, I AM A NOVICE, NFG, ROOKIE, whatever, so dont take what i did as what YOU should do)

anyway, what happened was i pulled, waited a sec, felt no deployment, looked (actually reached back) felt the bridle and pilot chute above it, and yanked back (towards my ass) on the bridle and immediately let go and brought my hands forward again. this released the bag from the container and from there it opened just fine. *shrugs* is this a bad way to do it?