Belgian_Skygirl 0 #1 December 23, 2004 Hi fellow Skydivers, I did 30 jumps up to now. As I am from Belgium, I had to learn to jump with a nine - cell parachute (manta)... later I took the Fury (7-cell). My problem is that I am very light (46 kilo's at the moment). So when there is some wind... I fly backwards. My instructor told me I should decrease and go to a parachute of 120 square feet maximum, but that I should take a slow parachute. Of course I won't use a small parachute tomorrow... fellow jumpers tell me that I should go to a 150 square feet... but than my former instructor tells me that people see a small parachute as dangerous, but that they don't think about weight. I am convinced that such a small parachute goes faster... but he tells me that it is better to take a low-performance parachute that really carries my weight. Everybody tells me something else and I don't know what to do... within some months I want to buy a new parachute, but al the information people give me is very confusing. Now, I just want to know your opinions and I guess I will do what the majority would do... on the other hand... my former instructor is very careful towards me and when there is a bit too much wind I am not allowed to jump, whilst others (fellow jumpers - not instructors) don't understand why i am not allowed to jump... I did fly backwards during a landing one day, when the air goes up, it takes mh more time than the others before I land. I guess my instructor is right, but I think that small parachute have more speed whilel landing and that frightens me... Thank you for your advice!!!------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #2 December 23, 2004 ask to try smaller parachutes before buying, ask the people at your DZ if they would lend you / let you try theirs, downsize gradually. A 120sq ft would give you a wingloading of approx 1:1 and a 150 around 0.8:1 which all in all is not a high loading, but going from lets say a 200sq ft to a 120 is a huge step which should be done gradually. Stay safe, stick to what your instructors tell you. Better to be on the ground and wishing you were in the air than being in the air wishing you were on the ground. My 5ctsscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tnscorcoran 0 #3 December 23, 2004 Hi Belgian_Skygirl If you consider your weight to be about 100lbs and add the weight of the container 20lbs, that leaves an exit weight of 120 lbs. At your experience a wingloading of 1.0 or slightly less is appropriate so a Main of 120-130 sq ft is about right. But definitely not a high performance parachute. A Spectre or maybe a Sabre 2 from Performance Designs are great parachutes that aren't too aggressive and that you will be able to sell again. Anyone that says you should get a 150sq ft at your weight is being too conservative if you ask me. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #4 December 23, 2004 I am currently (but not after I get my new container!) and at a wingload of about .9. I found this to be a very good wingloading at which to learn my canopy. Even so, I would have had little problem jumping 1:1. Personally, I would stick to 1:1 and below for the first 150 jumps or so. But piisfish is correct, definitely try smaller sizes first before deciding. Don't just jump to a smaller canopy. Listen to your instructor but if you DO try a 120 and find it not to your liking, go up in size, regardless of what your instructor says. After all, its you who has to fly it in the end.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Skygirl 0 #5 December 23, 2004 Of course I will downgrade gradually... in the meantime I will rent the equipment when I start to downgrade. My instructor told me that I have to start to jump with a 170. Is there a huge difference with a 210? I think it is a big step for me. i do trust my instructor... but my colleague jumpers always confuse me and that makes me a bit insecure...------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedassSkychic 0 #6 December 23, 2004 QuoteHi fellow Skydivers, Now, I just want to know your opinions and I guess I will do what the majority would do... Quote Its good to weigh other's advice, but be sure to buy what you feel comfortable with. In the end, you are responsible for yourself. Try different sizes and buy what you would be comfortable with, then jump with the winds you feel safe with. That said, there is also a 135 sqft size that would be about a .9 wingloading for you, you might try that. good luck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kris 0 #7 December 23, 2004 QuoteI am currently (but not after I get my new container!) and at a wingload of about .9. I found this to be a very good wingloading at which to learn my canopy. Even so, I would have had little problem jumping 1:1. Personally, I would stick to 1:1 and below for the first 150 jumps or so. 1:1 on a 210 canopy is a huge difference than 1:1 on a 120 canopy. Honestly, as an instructor, and without knowing her canopy control skills, I'd recommend no smaller than a 135, and I'd prefer to see her on a 150. From what she wrote, the smallest canopy she's jumped is a Fury so that's a large downsize to a 150 already. I recommend getting a demo 150 Sabre 2, Spectre, Pilot, or Safire 2. Jump the piss out of it for two weeks then decide if you really want to go smaller. I'll almost bet you'll find the 150 enough of a challenge to enjoy jumping one for a couple of hundred jumps.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kris 0 #8 December 23, 2004 QuoteMy instructor told me that I have to start to jump with a 170. Is there a huge difference with a 210? I think it is a big step for me. Starting with a 170 just to try it out is even better. At your size, you won't notice a huge difference between it and a 210, but you will notice some difference. Especially if that 170 is a more modern ZP canopy. Listen to what your instructor has to tell you for now, as he's your instructor, but also listen to that voice in your head and don't be afraid to take things slower, and at your personal comfort level.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tnscorcoran 0 #9 December 23, 2004 Gradual downsizing and a canopy control course are VERY advisable, though with them you should be able to reach say a 135 before you get to 100 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #10 December 23, 2004 1:1 on a 210 canopy is a huge difference than 1:1 on a 120 canopy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes! She would be wise to make a dozen jumps on the 170 (recommended by her instructor) before down-sizing any more. Also, remember that parachutes do not scale exactly. Smaller parachutes have shorter lines and turn quicker. That is why we see few small women loading parachutes much more than 1.5. Most women are far too smart to load canopies anywhere near the 2.2 preferred by testosterone-advantaged young men on the Pro pond-swooping tour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NWPoul 1 #11 December 23, 2004 QuoteMy instructor told me that I have to start to jump with a 170. Is there a huge difference with a 210? I think it is a big step for me. i do trust my instructor... but my colleague jumpers always confuse me and that makes me a bit insecure... I think, that you should more trust your instructor than guys who confuse you. During my AFF progression I did note olny positive difference between PD Navigator 260 and Navigator 220 (more confident and soft landings and of course more fun on turns:)). Difference between Navigator 220 and spectre 170 was a litlle bit more significant, but my weight is litle bit higher than yours:).Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites councilman24 37 #12 December 23, 2004 You need to go to the PIA symposium and listen to John LeBlanc's presentation. The same wingloading on a small parachute is much less forgiving than on a large parachute. Many things come into this. The length of the pendulum (skydiver hanging under canopy) is shorter so reactions are faster. There is less drag so speed and response may be faster. It is a BAD idea for anybody with 30 jumps to be going down to a 120 or 130, no matter what their weight. I know some old timers that learned this the hard way by suggesting too small of canopies to light weight newbies. Some one this size bought a 135 triathlon and was way in over his head. And ended up broken up. While I suggested it was too small, he listened to someone else. WL of 1.0 that MIGHT be okay at 170 lbs is not the same as WL of 1.0 at 120 lbs.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #13 December 23, 2004 Quote1:1 on a 210 canopy is a huge difference than 1:1 on a 120 canopy. Of course you are correct. I neglected to mention the difference.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Skygirl 0 #14 December 23, 2004 OK, It is not only the wingload that matters. This is very important information. I don't think that my instructor ment to downgrade immediatly to a small parachute... I will rent the equipment or use a demo-parachute. So... if i want to buy something... I guess I will have to wait a bit longer... my aim was just to buy a parachute so that I would already have it when time is ready, but I will first do some downsizes before buying one... But of course... all your tips and tricks are welcome!------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GTAVercetti 0 #15 December 23, 2004 Well, I bought my gear right off of student status. But that was because I knew the size and type I wanted. So yes, you should wait until you fly a canopy you like and then buy it instead of buying one that you think you will eventually get to. Because you may buy a 120 but decide that you are comfortable at a 135 and then you would be stuck with a 120 you cannot fly.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Fast 0 #16 December 23, 2004 I love threads like this for the rampant abundance of people who are giving advice and don't know what they are talking about. Please, try to refrain from telling another living person (esspecially a student) what canopy they should or should not buy if you aren't qualified to do so. A 120 is a VERY small canopy regardless of how much you weigh.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skycat 0 #17 December 23, 2004 I agree with Kris on this. I'm also a very small jumper 125 exit weight, and the jump from the 200 sq ft range to the 150 range is HUGE. The problem is on the 200 sq ft canopies you never really learned how to fly a canopy, because other than pointing it into the wind there isn't much you could do with it. So you will need to jump something in the 150 range that is forgiving so you can learn how to do things such as flat turns, flare turns, front riser turns, and such. From there you should be able to decide for yourself where you canopy skills are at. Either way be sure you just some canopies inbetween the 200 sq ft and the 150 such as 190 and 170 range to make the transition into the 150 easier.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,314 #18 December 23, 2004 Quotei do trust my instructor... but my colleague jumpers always confuse me and that makes me a bit insecure... Your answer is right here.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #19 December 23, 2004 Well if you want to jump over the border (The Netherlands), you will not be allowed to jump a 120 with so little jumps, I'm sure. Over here you need 100 jumps to be allowed to go smaller then a 170, no matter what you weigh (there's a wingload limit too but not applicable in your case), and you need 500 (!!) jumps to be allowed to go smaller then a 150, and you still have to jump at least a 120 till 1000 jumps! Although personally I think keeping very light people on 150's for 500 jumps is a bit overboard, I started jumping a 135 way before that, I definately do agree that a 120 is a damn small canopy, and the 2 light girls I'v seen that had a 120 as their first own canopies both had a LOT of trouble landing decently, even though their wingload isn't even 1:1. They took about 200 jumps each I do believe to learn to land their own canopy standing up and accurately!!! I know belgium doesn't have quite as many rules as we have (understatement), but, be careful... i even noticed a big change going from a skymaster 230 to a merit 190, because that canopy actually FLEW. And my own spectre 150 (at 1:1) was FAST!!! Well not so fast now, but at 50 jumps, it had me pretty nervous every jump, at first... Whatever you decide to do, please do some jumps on a 190, 170, 150, 135 first and see if any of those scare you, if so, don't buy a 120 Or maybe I'm just a wuss and you'll do fine... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Avion 0 #20 December 23, 2004 Just wondering why eveybody avoided suggesting add weight so that he will load the bigger wing more heavily. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 2 #21 December 23, 2004 It's a she And a very light one. Do the math... The point however is a good one, since if you're ligthweigth you may want/need to wear lead, which adds to the wingload. But adding weight just for the sake of increasing your wingload is not what I would suggest to a beginner. I did it for crew, some swoopers do it too, but would you suggest a beginner wear more then a few pounds of lead? She'd need a LOT to bring her wingload up if she's flying a fury... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Belgian_Skygirl 0 #22 December 23, 2004 Hi, Thank you for all your reactions. My aim is not to start to jump immediately with a 120. ... it is just that I need to think about buying a parachute... and many people say different things and that confused me... But this topic already helpt me to see things in perspective. Sometimes it is great to read other people's opinions, as people that know you in person are not neutral all the time. F.i. some people told me that I should not take a parachute smaller than a 170... then my instructor told me that the difference with a 210 for my weight is not that huge and that in some circumstances I would still be blown away... I think the problem is that the smaller parachutes react faster and that I am not experienced enough to react on that. But let's put it that way... I want to jump safely... a parachute that is too big is not safe... but a parachute that is too small neither...------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #23 December 23, 2004 Quote I love threads like this for the rampant abundance of people who are giving advice and don't know what they are talking about. Please, try to refrain from telling another living person (esspecially a student) what canopy they should or should not buy if you aren't qualified to do so. A 120 is a VERY small canopy regardless of how much you weigh. I agree 100%. It's not a given that every new skydiver will want to downsize in their first couple hundred jumps. Some jumpers will never feel a need to exceed 1.0:1 wingloading, ever. People who know WTF they are talking about when it comes to choosing canopy types and sizes know this. They don't encourage jumpers to downsize faster (ie large gaps in canopy sizes) or sooner (ie at 50, 100, 200 jumps) than the jumper feels confident and capable of doing safely. For the original poster on this thread - if you haven't already, check out the articles on PD's website, especially the one that discusses wingloading. You may also find the articles here to be helpful as you decide what gear will work best for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Avion 0 #24 December 24, 2004 From what I've read, beginners should load their wing at 1.0 or less. Also the smaller the wing the faster it will turn because the control lines are shorter. That means if two different sized canopies are loaded the same, generally the smaller one will turn faster. This should be kept in mind. In my bearly educated opinion, I have read a good amount of PD's and Aerodyne's material on their designs and recommendations, you should probably choose a wing that will load lighter than 1.0lbs/sqft, so that you have a more mild mannered ride. Then, as you ability improves add some weight up to 15-20lbs in small increments, say 5lbs at a time. To get an idea of how a more heavily loaded wing will handle before you downsize. I think, I read some where that Joey Jones jumped each of his canopies 800-1000 times before downsizing. According to him, most everybody downsizes way before they can fly their present canopy to its full potential. I have read enough in the incidents forum, to take Joey's example to heart. Doing the math 46kg =101lbs Plus rig 25lbs =126 exit weight. 126/150 = 0.85 lbs/sqft 126/135 = 0.94 lbs/sqft In view of what I said the 150 loaded at 0.85 might be as responsive as 170 loaded 1.0, and the 135 loaded at 0.94 will most likely be noticably more responsive than a 170 loaded at 1.0. Manufacturers say comparisions like this are diffucult, although in general smaller canopies tend to be more responsive to pilot input than larger ones when loaded at the same ratio. Also keep in mind you can jump rental equipment before you buy your own. Jump a 170 see if it feels different than the 210. If you feel comfortable with the 170, try a 150, then decide. Being conservative, I'd rather err on the safe side. If you can even call that an err Hope this helps. Blue Skies... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GravityGirl 0 #25 December 24, 2004 First of all Tom with your one year in the sport and one hundred jumps and you most likely don't weight 100 pounds. WHY ARE YOU OFFERING ADVISE? Secondly. Here. Read this.http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/wingload.pdf I have a REALLY hard time with instructors or individuals who push small girls into jumping really small parachutes. And yes, a 120 is really small. Which do you think more unsafe: - You go up in 20 mph winds and find yourself coming straight down or backing up a bit because your canopy is too lightly loaded. - You go up in 20 mph winds and as soon as you turn downwind you are hauling ass and loose more altitude than you intended. You have NO time to think about your reaction. I'm not saying jump a canopy that will back you up in 20 mph. But find the sweet spot. Because based on personal experience and experience as an instructor, it is senario #2 that injurs and kills. If a person is intimidated by speed, that persons learning curve will be VERY slow as well as unsafe. Then the guys will sit back and watch her biff and say, "Oh, chix can't land very well." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Kris 0 #7 December 23, 2004 QuoteI am currently (but not after I get my new container!) and at a wingload of about .9. I found this to be a very good wingloading at which to learn my canopy. Even so, I would have had little problem jumping 1:1. Personally, I would stick to 1:1 and below for the first 150 jumps or so. 1:1 on a 210 canopy is a huge difference than 1:1 on a 120 canopy. Honestly, as an instructor, and without knowing her canopy control skills, I'd recommend no smaller than a 135, and I'd prefer to see her on a 150. From what she wrote, the smallest canopy she's jumped is a Fury so that's a large downsize to a 150 already. I recommend getting a demo 150 Sabre 2, Spectre, Pilot, or Safire 2. Jump the piss out of it for two weeks then decide if you really want to go smaller. I'll almost bet you'll find the 150 enough of a challenge to enjoy jumping one for a couple of hundred jumps.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #8 December 23, 2004 QuoteMy instructor told me that I have to start to jump with a 170. Is there a huge difference with a 210? I think it is a big step for me. Starting with a 170 just to try it out is even better. At your size, you won't notice a huge difference between it and a 210, but you will notice some difference. Especially if that 170 is a more modern ZP canopy. Listen to what your instructor has to tell you for now, as he's your instructor, but also listen to that voice in your head and don't be afraid to take things slower, and at your personal comfort level.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tnscorcoran 0 #9 December 23, 2004 Gradual downsizing and a canopy control course are VERY advisable, though with them you should be able to reach say a 135 before you get to 100 jumps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #10 December 23, 2004 1:1 on a 210 canopy is a huge difference than 1:1 on a 120 canopy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes! She would be wise to make a dozen jumps on the 170 (recommended by her instructor) before down-sizing any more. Also, remember that parachutes do not scale exactly. Smaller parachutes have shorter lines and turn quicker. That is why we see few small women loading parachutes much more than 1.5. Most women are far too smart to load canopies anywhere near the 2.2 preferred by testosterone-advantaged young men on the Pro pond-swooping tour. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWPoul 1 #11 December 23, 2004 QuoteMy instructor told me that I have to start to jump with a 170. Is there a huge difference with a 210? I think it is a big step for me. i do trust my instructor... but my colleague jumpers always confuse me and that makes me a bit insecure... I think, that you should more trust your instructor than guys who confuse you. During my AFF progression I did note olny positive difference between PD Navigator 260 and Navigator 220 (more confident and soft landings and of course more fun on turns:)). Difference between Navigator 220 and spectre 170 was a litlle bit more significant, but my weight is litle bit higher than yours:).Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #12 December 23, 2004 You need to go to the PIA symposium and listen to John LeBlanc's presentation. The same wingloading on a small parachute is much less forgiving than on a large parachute. Many things come into this. The length of the pendulum (skydiver hanging under canopy) is shorter so reactions are faster. There is less drag so speed and response may be faster. It is a BAD idea for anybody with 30 jumps to be going down to a 120 or 130, no matter what their weight. I know some old timers that learned this the hard way by suggesting too small of canopies to light weight newbies. Some one this size bought a 135 triathlon and was way in over his head. And ended up broken up. While I suggested it was too small, he listened to someone else. WL of 1.0 that MIGHT be okay at 170 lbs is not the same as WL of 1.0 at 120 lbs.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #13 December 23, 2004 Quote1:1 on a 210 canopy is a huge difference than 1:1 on a 120 canopy. Of course you are correct. I neglected to mention the difference.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Skygirl 0 #14 December 23, 2004 OK, It is not only the wingload that matters. This is very important information. I don't think that my instructor ment to downgrade immediatly to a small parachute... I will rent the equipment or use a demo-parachute. So... if i want to buy something... I guess I will have to wait a bit longer... my aim was just to buy a parachute so that I would already have it when time is ready, but I will first do some downsizes before buying one... But of course... all your tips and tricks are welcome!------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GTAVercetti 0 #15 December 23, 2004 Well, I bought my gear right off of student status. But that was because I knew the size and type I wanted. So yes, you should wait until you fly a canopy you like and then buy it instead of buying one that you think you will eventually get to. Because you may buy a 120 but decide that you are comfortable at a 135 and then you would be stuck with a 120 you cannot fly.Why yes, my license number is a palindrome. Thank you for noticing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #16 December 23, 2004 I love threads like this for the rampant abundance of people who are giving advice and don't know what they are talking about. Please, try to refrain from telling another living person (esspecially a student) what canopy they should or should not buy if you aren't qualified to do so. A 120 is a VERY small canopy regardless of how much you weigh.~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycat 0 #17 December 23, 2004 I agree with Kris on this. I'm also a very small jumper 125 exit weight, and the jump from the 200 sq ft range to the 150 range is HUGE. The problem is on the 200 sq ft canopies you never really learned how to fly a canopy, because other than pointing it into the wind there isn't much you could do with it. So you will need to jump something in the 150 range that is forgiving so you can learn how to do things such as flat turns, flare turns, front riser turns, and such. From there you should be able to decide for yourself where you canopy skills are at. Either way be sure you just some canopies inbetween the 200 sq ft and the 150 such as 190 and 170 range to make the transition into the 150 easier.Fly it like you stole it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,314 #18 December 23, 2004 Quotei do trust my instructor... but my colleague jumpers always confuse me and that makes me a bit insecure... Your answer is right here.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #19 December 23, 2004 Well if you want to jump over the border (The Netherlands), you will not be allowed to jump a 120 with so little jumps, I'm sure. Over here you need 100 jumps to be allowed to go smaller then a 170, no matter what you weigh (there's a wingload limit too but not applicable in your case), and you need 500 (!!) jumps to be allowed to go smaller then a 150, and you still have to jump at least a 120 till 1000 jumps! Although personally I think keeping very light people on 150's for 500 jumps is a bit overboard, I started jumping a 135 way before that, I definately do agree that a 120 is a damn small canopy, and the 2 light girls I'v seen that had a 120 as their first own canopies both had a LOT of trouble landing decently, even though their wingload isn't even 1:1. They took about 200 jumps each I do believe to learn to land their own canopy standing up and accurately!!! I know belgium doesn't have quite as many rules as we have (understatement), but, be careful... i even noticed a big change going from a skymaster 230 to a merit 190, because that canopy actually FLEW. And my own spectre 150 (at 1:1) was FAST!!! Well not so fast now, but at 50 jumps, it had me pretty nervous every jump, at first... Whatever you decide to do, please do some jumps on a 190, 170, 150, 135 first and see if any of those scare you, if so, don't buy a 120 Or maybe I'm just a wuss and you'll do fine... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #20 December 23, 2004 Just wondering why eveybody avoided suggesting add weight so that he will load the bigger wing more heavily. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #21 December 23, 2004 It's a she And a very light one. Do the math... The point however is a good one, since if you're ligthweigth you may want/need to wear lead, which adds to the wingload. But adding weight just for the sake of increasing your wingload is not what I would suggest to a beginner. I did it for crew, some swoopers do it too, but would you suggest a beginner wear more then a few pounds of lead? She'd need a LOT to bring her wingload up if she's flying a fury... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Belgian_Skygirl 0 #22 December 23, 2004 Hi, Thank you for all your reactions. My aim is not to start to jump immediately with a 120. ... it is just that I need to think about buying a parachute... and many people say different things and that confused me... But this topic already helpt me to see things in perspective. Sometimes it is great to read other people's opinions, as people that know you in person are not neutral all the time. F.i. some people told me that I should not take a parachute smaller than a 170... then my instructor told me that the difference with a 210 for my weight is not that huge and that in some circumstances I would still be blown away... I think the problem is that the smaller parachutes react faster and that I am not experienced enough to react on that. But let's put it that way... I want to jump safely... a parachute that is too big is not safe... but a parachute that is too small neither...------------------------------------------------- No dive, like skydive... wanna bet on it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #23 December 23, 2004 Quote I love threads like this for the rampant abundance of people who are giving advice and don't know what they are talking about. Please, try to refrain from telling another living person (esspecially a student) what canopy they should or should not buy if you aren't qualified to do so. A 120 is a VERY small canopy regardless of how much you weigh. I agree 100%. It's not a given that every new skydiver will want to downsize in their first couple hundred jumps. Some jumpers will never feel a need to exceed 1.0:1 wingloading, ever. People who know WTF they are talking about when it comes to choosing canopy types and sizes know this. They don't encourage jumpers to downsize faster (ie large gaps in canopy sizes) or sooner (ie at 50, 100, 200 jumps) than the jumper feels confident and capable of doing safely. For the original poster on this thread - if you haven't already, check out the articles on PD's website, especially the one that discusses wingloading. You may also find the articles here to be helpful as you decide what gear will work best for you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Avion 0 #24 December 24, 2004 From what I've read, beginners should load their wing at 1.0 or less. Also the smaller the wing the faster it will turn because the control lines are shorter. That means if two different sized canopies are loaded the same, generally the smaller one will turn faster. This should be kept in mind. In my bearly educated opinion, I have read a good amount of PD's and Aerodyne's material on their designs and recommendations, you should probably choose a wing that will load lighter than 1.0lbs/sqft, so that you have a more mild mannered ride. Then, as you ability improves add some weight up to 15-20lbs in small increments, say 5lbs at a time. To get an idea of how a more heavily loaded wing will handle before you downsize. I think, I read some where that Joey Jones jumped each of his canopies 800-1000 times before downsizing. According to him, most everybody downsizes way before they can fly their present canopy to its full potential. I have read enough in the incidents forum, to take Joey's example to heart. Doing the math 46kg =101lbs Plus rig 25lbs =126 exit weight. 126/150 = 0.85 lbs/sqft 126/135 = 0.94 lbs/sqft In view of what I said the 150 loaded at 0.85 might be as responsive as 170 loaded 1.0, and the 135 loaded at 0.94 will most likely be noticably more responsive than a 170 loaded at 1.0. Manufacturers say comparisions like this are diffucult, although in general smaller canopies tend to be more responsive to pilot input than larger ones when loaded at the same ratio. Also keep in mind you can jump rental equipment before you buy your own. Jump a 170 see if it feels different than the 210. If you feel comfortable with the 170, try a 150, then decide. Being conservative, I'd rather err on the safe side. If you can even call that an err Hope this helps. Blue Skies... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #25 December 24, 2004 First of all Tom with your one year in the sport and one hundred jumps and you most likely don't weight 100 pounds. WHY ARE YOU OFFERING ADVISE? Secondly. Here. Read this.http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/wingload.pdf I have a REALLY hard time with instructors or individuals who push small girls into jumping really small parachutes. And yes, a 120 is really small. Which do you think more unsafe: - You go up in 20 mph winds and find yourself coming straight down or backing up a bit because your canopy is too lightly loaded. - You go up in 20 mph winds and as soon as you turn downwind you are hauling ass and loose more altitude than you intended. You have NO time to think about your reaction. I'm not saying jump a canopy that will back you up in 20 mph. But find the sweet spot. Because based on personal experience and experience as an instructor, it is senario #2 that injurs and kills. If a person is intimidated by speed, that persons learning curve will be VERY slow as well as unsafe. Then the guys will sit back and watch her biff and say, "Oh, chix can't land very well." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
