dragon2 2 #26 October 1, 2003 Quote Why the hell would anyone want something not for teminal? The Lightning is a CRW (Canopy Formation) canopy... Ya don't want to go terminal if you want to build a formation quick So all you do is c&p's. Hey, freefall is for pussies heh heh CRW canopies open QUICK, and are usually packed different too (with a tailpocket instead of a bag). You CAN freefall with the larger Lightnings (F111 or hybrid) if you put a big slider on it and put it in a bag. Seen it done. However, taking my ZP Lightning 126 (with bag but with a spider instead of a slider) to terminal equals OUCH . Just might make a decent BASE canopy (just kidding)... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #27 October 1, 2003 QuoteWhy the hell would anyone want something not for teminal? A lot of CRW dawgs never take more then a 3-5 second delay no matter what the altitude is. You're still very subterminal at 3 seconds so its a great canopy for that. A lot of ZP Lightnings also have mesh sliders, tail pockets, and retractible (not collasable) pilot chutes. I think a lot of people are having altimeter paralax, coupled with the lag in the altimeter, and the general adrenline time warp makes people think things are happening longer then they are. I'm yet to have a snivel on video last more then about 3.5 seconds. Thats only about 500-600 feet. Thats on Spectres, Cobalts, Jedei's, Firebolts, Sabre2's, and Stilettos. I've had tandem canopies take about 800-900 before. But sport canopies don't seem to snivel more then about 3 seconds or so. Just remember for a 1000 foot snivel it would have to do that for 7+ seconds. Are you really going to look up at something for 7 full seconds and not wonder if its a streamer at that point?Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #28 October 1, 2003 Quote I've had tandem canopies take about 800-900 before. But sport canopies don't seem to snivel more then about 3 seconds or so. Of course, tandem canopies are made to open safely at tandem terminal(much faster than a single skydiver at terminal), so that accounts for that difference..(I know YOU know that, but many people probably don't) Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #29 October 1, 2003 I thought tandem speeds were only slightly higher speeds, due to the drogue just being released (the whole "trapdoor" thing). --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 2 #30 October 1, 2003 QuoteI thought tandem speeds were only slightly higher speeds, due to the drogue just being released (the whole "trapdoor" thing). Yeah but what if they have a mal and there is no drogue to slow the pair down before opening ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #31 October 1, 2003 QuoteI thought tandem speeds were only slightly higher speeds, due to the drogue just being released (the whole "trapdoor" thing). The canopies need to have openings that are survivable and will not damage the gear when at tandem terminal....meaning nothing out(no drogue). This translates to slow openings when the speeds are lower, such as then there is a drogue out. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pegasus 0 #32 October 1, 2003 I jump a Pisa (aerodyne Research) SR-71 170 and it snivels for about 1000', my s/o rolls the hell out the nose or it snatches the poop outta ya... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #33 October 2, 2003 When I was learning to pack and had somewhere under 30 jumps, I forgot to roll the nose on an F111 canopy I later jumped. Practically killed me. "Thwack" is not the word. My current main, a Triathlon takes somewhere between 700-1000 feet. Hop-n-pops, don't know the distance, but the amount of time it takes is about twice as long...So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonigravity 0 #34 October 2, 2003 [email]The Snivel can cause you a problem when you get close to the ground particularly if you are going to have a cut away under a spinning capanpy. It can be very wild. I had one of the lowest saves in the dz's brief history. People can die in this sport snd dying is very uncool.. I want my original rig back... TonigravityQuote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jiggs 0 #35 October 3, 2003 Dee; Snivel is the time that the canopy is actually out of the bag. The 1000ft that you describe would be how long in total it takes you to deploy. For example that would include wave off, reach, throw, inflate, etc. Many people say that their canopy takes 1k or more to open, generally speaking there is a host of factors that make people say this. (as noted by Phree)"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Rainbo 0 #36 October 3, 2003 I jump a safire 135. My dytter bottom end is set at 2500 and I wave right after that. Pack openeing is 2000 normally and I am usually in the saddle by 1700. you guys can do the math. BSBD, Rainbo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dterrick 0 #37 October 3, 2003 My Raven (tired, F-111, 1:1 loading) very rarely gives me a chance to see it unfold. Still, despite pro packing (really trash packing), a larger slider and a slider pocket as well to help tame the openings, 400 ft from toss to reaching for brakes is about my interval. Consistency, more than anything, is comforting. Reserve ride? EVERY jump I make is s reserve ride. Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelel01 1 #38 October 13, 2003 Quote Triathlon 190 propacked and i snivel 1000-1500 feet Does that ever frighten you? After reading about the Perris fatality, I started thinking about the snivel on the two student canopies I've been jumping. This past weekend, the snivel was really small (smaller than usual), but I was thinking "Oh, it always snivels", so I let it keep going. It took about 1500 feet for it to open. This relates to the Perris fatality because the jumper apparently thought the problem was fixable and lost altitude awareness. I'm concerned that with such a long snivel that I might become complacent, assuming it will open, as I blow through my hard deck. Sorry if this is not an appropriate thread for this comment/question. Blue Skies, Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumper03 0 #39 October 14, 2003 Quote I think a lot of people are having altimeter paralax, coupled with the lag in the altimeter, and the general adrenline time warp makes people think things are happening longer then they are. I'm yet to have a snivel on video last more then about 3.5 seconds. Thats only about 500-600 feet. Thats on Spectres, Cobalts, Jedei's, Firebolts, Sabre2's, and Stilettos. I've had tandem canopies take about 800-900 before. But sport canopies don't seem to snivel more then about 3 seconds or so. Just remember for a 1000 foot snivel it would have to do that for 7+ seconds. Are you really going to look up at something for 7 full seconds and not wonder if its a streamer at that point? I invite you to come video my snivel then fastest ever was 5 secs - longest was 8 and part of nin.... average is just a little over 6 to a little less than 8. I got nervous the first few times, but that's how it is and I pitch high because of it. I wouldn't mind if it sped up a little though.Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mouth 0 #40 October 14, 2003 Phree, You've seen my spectre take forever to open. I can generallly look at it in the saddle for 3+ seconds before I'm sure she will open all the way. That is time to sit me upright before I even attempt to look. If a packer accidentally rolls anything the hang time is 4-5 seconds easily. I say yes, you can get a 1000 foor snivel from a Spectre if it is lightly loaded. -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kris 0 #41 October 14, 2003 QuoteYou've seen my spectre take forever to open. I can generallly look at it in the saddle for 3+ seconds before I'm sure she will open all the way. That is time to sit me upright before I even attempt to look. If a packer accidentally rolls anything the hang time is 4-5 seconds easily. I say yes, you can get a 1000 foor snivel from a Spectre if it is lightly loaded. 4-5 seconds isn't 1000' feet. I regularly get that much snivel on my Stiletto and my most snivelly of openings are barely hitting 700'. The norm is 450-600'. Remember, you've got a big wad of fabric over your head trying to catch air and open. And even though it isn't all the way open it's still slowing you down a lot.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Aviatrr 0 #42 October 14, 2003 QuoteRemember, you've got a big wad of fabric over your head trying to catch air and open. And even though it isn't all the way open it's still slowing you down a lot. And for those that don't believe it.....watch a video of somebody deploying while the videographer is still in freefall. The jumper will fall at the same rate until the canopy STARTS to come out of the bag, then they are yanked upright and it looks like they damn near stopped. That's just the initial deceleration...it continues. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #43 October 14, 2003 Lisa, I'd say your's is no more then 600 feet on any of the jumps I've seen. As soon as the slider is presented to the air flow you are not going 120 anymore, you might be doing 75ish, once the center cells are fully inflated your into the 40-50 mph range. You might spend 2-3 seconds in that stage then the canopy fully inflates. No more then about 600-700 feet is spent from the Dbag leaving the back till your under a full canopy. I had a great experience this weekend where 3 of us all threw our pilotchutes with in about a second of each other and all opened on level with each other. Watching the others decellerate even while I was in snivel was very cool.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sunnydee123 0 #44 October 14, 2003 OK...I did the "snivel test" this weekend and have to say....................I was wrong . The actual snivel is not 1,000 feet for my Sabre2 but closer to 700. By the time I am in the saddle, check to make sure the canopy is good over my head, get the slider down and THEN look at my alti again is what takes about 1,000 feet. So I was wrong but it was fun to pay that close of attention to what was going on..... Still - my openings are nice and soft with my Sabre2 and I just love the canopy! What was this thread about again? Dreams become reality, one choice at a time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumperconway 0 #45 October 14, 2003 When I was newer I jumped an Omega 7 cell(very snivelly) then a Crossfire( again very snivelly) then a Xaos 21 cell(moderately snivelly until the reline, then very snivelly) now a Xaos 27 cell(snivelly). The longest snivel my protrack has ever recorded was under 700 feet. Even as long as I thought some were, my jump track usually says 350-500'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpgod 0 #46 October 15, 2003 not certain but my spectre is a ZP and it takes roughly 600'. i can adjust this by the way i pack though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpwally 0 #47 October 16, 2003 As usual,,it was about you,,see playng with Uncle Wally is educational....... ;-)smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sundevil777 102 #48 October 16, 2003 My old Para-Flite Astrobe seemed like it would not open until I released the brakes.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites imdskydiver 0 #49 October 17, 2003 I jumped a Hornet 150 this weekend , It took slightly less than 3 sec. from p/c toss till the slider was all the way down ,(video jump) My h-mod Cobalt takes about 5-6 sec. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tfelber 0 #50 October 17, 2003 I have a Turbo ZX 165 and when I first got it, having jumped Sabre's til then, I was getting 1200-1800 ft openings. That was a bit nerve racking, I've found my hand on the cutaway handle multiple times. I got to the point I didn't like to pull below 3000'. One guy, when I got to the ground, said he couldn't believe I didn't cut it away. I even added a brake line, but the openings were so brisk that I removed it at Rantoul in 2002. A friend advised me to pull the rear risers if it was taking too long and that seems to work every time.Lately, I've been just releasing the nose from between my legs, quartering the slider, and rolling the tail just enough to keep it cacooned and it takes about 6 seconds to open from the time I release the pilot chute. I'm still nervous about opening below 3000, but I know how to deal with issue should there be one. BTW, I wear a camera and always video my openings. Nothing seems to be awry it just takes time to inflate. Could be the panels in front of the nose at the ribs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Jiggs 0 #35 October 3, 2003 Dee; Snivel is the time that the canopy is actually out of the bag. The 1000ft that you describe would be how long in total it takes you to deploy. For example that would include wave off, reach, throw, inflate, etc. Many people say that their canopy takes 1k or more to open, generally speaking there is a host of factors that make people say this. (as noted by Phree)"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rainbo 0 #36 October 3, 2003 I jump a safire 135. My dytter bottom end is set at 2500 and I wave right after that. Pack openeing is 2000 normally and I am usually in the saddle by 1700. you guys can do the math. BSBD, Rainbo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #37 October 3, 2003 My Raven (tired, F-111, 1:1 loading) very rarely gives me a chance to see it unfold. Still, despite pro packing (really trash packing), a larger slider and a slider pocket as well to help tame the openings, 400 ft from toss to reaching for brakes is about my interval. Consistency, more than anything, is comforting. Reserve ride? EVERY jump I make is s reserve ride. Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelel01 1 #38 October 13, 2003 Quote Triathlon 190 propacked and i snivel 1000-1500 feet Does that ever frighten you? After reading about the Perris fatality, I started thinking about the snivel on the two student canopies I've been jumping. This past weekend, the snivel was really small (smaller than usual), but I was thinking "Oh, it always snivels", so I let it keep going. It took about 1500 feet for it to open. This relates to the Perris fatality because the jumper apparently thought the problem was fixable and lost altitude awareness. I'm concerned that with such a long snivel that I might become complacent, assuming it will open, as I blow through my hard deck. Sorry if this is not an appropriate thread for this comment/question. Blue Skies, Kelly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumper03 0 #39 October 14, 2003 Quote I think a lot of people are having altimeter paralax, coupled with the lag in the altimeter, and the general adrenline time warp makes people think things are happening longer then they are. I'm yet to have a snivel on video last more then about 3.5 seconds. Thats only about 500-600 feet. Thats on Spectres, Cobalts, Jedei's, Firebolts, Sabre2's, and Stilettos. I've had tandem canopies take about 800-900 before. But sport canopies don't seem to snivel more then about 3 seconds or so. Just remember for a 1000 foot snivel it would have to do that for 7+ seconds. Are you really going to look up at something for 7 full seconds and not wonder if its a streamer at that point? I invite you to come video my snivel then fastest ever was 5 secs - longest was 8 and part of nin.... average is just a little over 6 to a little less than 8. I got nervous the first few times, but that's how it is and I pitch high because of it. I wouldn't mind if it sped up a little though.Scars remind us that the past is real Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #40 October 14, 2003 Phree, You've seen my spectre take forever to open. I can generallly look at it in the saddle for 3+ seconds before I'm sure she will open all the way. That is time to sit me upright before I even attempt to look. If a packer accidentally rolls anything the hang time is 4-5 seconds easily. I say yes, you can get a 1000 foor snivel from a Spectre if it is lightly loaded. -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #41 October 14, 2003 QuoteYou've seen my spectre take forever to open. I can generallly look at it in the saddle for 3+ seconds before I'm sure she will open all the way. That is time to sit me upright before I even attempt to look. If a packer accidentally rolls anything the hang time is 4-5 seconds easily. I say yes, you can get a 1000 foor snivel from a Spectre if it is lightly loaded. 4-5 seconds isn't 1000' feet. I regularly get that much snivel on my Stiletto and my most snivelly of openings are barely hitting 700'. The norm is 450-600'. Remember, you've got a big wad of fabric over your head trying to catch air and open. And even though it isn't all the way open it's still slowing you down a lot.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aviatrr 0 #42 October 14, 2003 QuoteRemember, you've got a big wad of fabric over your head trying to catch air and open. And even though it isn't all the way open it's still slowing you down a lot. And for those that don't believe it.....watch a video of somebody deploying while the videographer is still in freefall. The jumper will fall at the same rate until the canopy STARTS to come out of the bag, then they are yanked upright and it looks like they damn near stopped. That's just the initial deceleration...it continues. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #43 October 14, 2003 Lisa, I'd say your's is no more then 600 feet on any of the jumps I've seen. As soon as the slider is presented to the air flow you are not going 120 anymore, you might be doing 75ish, once the center cells are fully inflated your into the 40-50 mph range. You might spend 2-3 seconds in that stage then the canopy fully inflates. No more then about 600-700 feet is spent from the Dbag leaving the back till your under a full canopy. I had a great experience this weekend where 3 of us all threw our pilotchutes with in about a second of each other and all opened on level with each other. Watching the others decellerate even while I was in snivel was very cool.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunnydee123 0 #44 October 14, 2003 OK...I did the "snivel test" this weekend and have to say....................I was wrong . The actual snivel is not 1,000 feet for my Sabre2 but closer to 700. By the time I am in the saddle, check to make sure the canopy is good over my head, get the slider down and THEN look at my alti again is what takes about 1,000 feet. So I was wrong but it was fun to pay that close of attention to what was going on..... Still - my openings are nice and soft with my Sabre2 and I just love the canopy! What was this thread about again? Dreams become reality, one choice at a time... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #45 October 14, 2003 When I was newer I jumped an Omega 7 cell(very snivelly) then a Crossfire( again very snivelly) then a Xaos 21 cell(moderately snivelly until the reline, then very snivelly) now a Xaos 27 cell(snivelly). The longest snivel my protrack has ever recorded was under 700 feet. Even as long as I thought some were, my jump track usually says 350-500'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpgod 0 #46 October 15, 2003 not certain but my spectre is a ZP and it takes roughly 600'. i can adjust this by the way i pack though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #47 October 16, 2003 As usual,,it was about you,,see playng with Uncle Wally is educational....... ;-)smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 102 #48 October 16, 2003 My old Para-Flite Astrobe seemed like it would not open until I released the brakes.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
imdskydiver 0 #49 October 17, 2003 I jumped a Hornet 150 this weekend , It took slightly less than 3 sec. from p/c toss till the slider was all the way down ,(video jump) My h-mod Cobalt takes about 5-6 sec. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tfelber 0 #50 October 17, 2003 I have a Turbo ZX 165 and when I first got it, having jumped Sabre's til then, I was getting 1200-1800 ft openings. That was a bit nerve racking, I've found my hand on the cutaway handle multiple times. I got to the point I didn't like to pull below 3000'. One guy, when I got to the ground, said he couldn't believe I didn't cut it away. I even added a brake line, but the openings were so brisk that I removed it at Rantoul in 2002. A friend advised me to pull the rear risers if it was taking too long and that seems to work every time.Lately, I've been just releasing the nose from between my legs, quartering the slider, and rolling the tail just enough to keep it cacooned and it takes about 6 seconds to open from the time I release the pilot chute. I'm still nervous about opening below 3000, but I know how to deal with issue should there be one. BTW, I wear a camera and always video my openings. Nothing seems to be awry it just takes time to inflate. Could be the panels in front of the nose at the ribs? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
