mazevedo 0 #1 November 19, 2004 Do you know the percentage of students who quit skydiving after AFF, ASL AFP ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tink1717 2 #2 November 19, 2004 Most of them. The fact is that most people make only one or two jumps and then never jump again. I don't understand it, I just know about it. Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mazevedo 0 #3 November 19, 2004 I guess it is from human nature and survival instinct. People want to test their limits but why take more risk if they felt the free fall feeling? Thats what I felt in my second jump... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #4 November 19, 2004 The vast majority of students only want to do one jump, so they can brag in the bar afterwards. A good school can train 5% of its first-timers to A-level. Half of those A-holders will buy gear and stick around for 3, maybe 4 years. The majority of posters on dz.com are just not normal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #5 November 19, 2004 QuoteThe vast majority of students only want to do one jump, so they can brag in the bar afterwards. I only partially agree - from my perspective. While bragging in the bar is important, I think a lot of people want to “brag to themselves” and know they accomplished something, living life to it’s fullest… That is why I did my first tandem 6 years ago… But then I returned as an AFF student this year - and now am working on my A. Here is my perspective: I have tried a lot of new adventurous sports, ranging from snowboarding, wakeboarding, kayaking, rock climbing, mountaineering, motorcycles, dirt bikes, mountain biking, jet skis, snowmobiling, bungee jumping, paragliding, etc... I have stuck with EVERY sport above, participating a few times a year EXCEPT paragliding - because the currency requirements are so strong... Work got in my way, and I decided I did not have the passion to return after a 3-month break. A HUGE factor in my loss of passion were the people in paragliding who did not open their closed doors to me as a friend or peer - so I was alone in my passion... I hope to stay with Skydiving longer (right now feel as though I am hooked for life, I already feel I have some friends in the sport, but ask me in two years), as I am enjoying it more than any of the activities I have done before... But, I know I might “burn out” in a few years as I did in snowboarding, where I only go up to the mountains 3 times a year or so… And while I am going snowboarding tomorrow because I can’t skydive due to weather – if snowboarding required the same currency as skydiving, I would not be current enough to go… And my snowboard does not need a reserve repack either… The fact remains - flying in any fashion (general aviation, paragliding, hang gliding, skydiving, etc) has to be more than a recreational sport, but a lifestyle, to remain current. How many people are willing to make a lifestyle change to participate in a sport? Not many… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #6 November 19, 2004 QuoteThe majority of posters on dz.com are just not normal. No. Really?illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #7 November 19, 2004 Quote I have stuck with EVERY sport above, participating a few times a year EXCEPT paragliding - because the currency requirements are so strong... Work got in my way, and I decided I did not have the passion to return after a 3-month break. A HUGE factor in my loss of passion were the people in paragliding who did not open their closed doors to me as a friend or peer - so I was alone in my passion... Currency requirements are a big part of why many try it, but stick to it. I never thought about more skydiving after the tandems I did. I just didn't have time and a great enough interest to fit it into every thing else I do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccowden 0 #8 November 19, 2004 Last I knew, it was a less than 1% retention rate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeth 0 #9 November 19, 2004 The original post was about how many quit after AFF, not after a tandem. I am sure there are many 1000's who come to do a tandem for the bragging rights or self satisfaction, as mentioned. And only a tiny portion of those people go on to AFF/AFP (like me! But I am curious as to how many of the people who go thru AFP end up quitting the sport. (As was the original question) It definitely takes a lot of time and money to become a licensed skydiver. I know I thought long and hard before doing it, and I would think others do, too. (But I could still see some people quitting due to difficulty in training, lack of time, lack of money, etc. But boy, that would sure be a waste of all that money and time! )"At 13,000 feet nothing else matters." PFRX!!!!! Team Funnel #174, Sunshine kisspass #109 My Jump Site Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #10 November 19, 2004 QuoteQuoteThe majority of posters on dz.com are just not normal. No. Really? The few normal ones are in Speakers Corner.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #11 November 19, 2004 Quotethat would sure be a waste of all that money and time! No, because they walk away from it with a bunch of life lessons and experiences.... Now, if they blew that money on a drug habit, that would be a waste. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lootcorp 0 #12 November 19, 2004 As a newbie student, here's my take on it. I went on my first skydive on a whim, after being asked by my gf's family because they needed one more person to get a group rate. I've always felt life is about racking up as many experiences as possible, so that fit the bill. I don't know what brought me back - was it the adrenaline rush of freefall, or just the newness of it all? The fact that there was this whole community of people out there doing stuff I had no idea about? I'm not sure, but all I knew was that I wanted to jump solo. I didn't feel a tandem really counted as skydiving - it was more like observing skydiving. I wanted to save my own life while plummeting from 13K. Now, why have I had a two-month lapse since my last IAD jump? Mostly money and time. I have a pretty busy life what with work and gf and all. For me, skydiving does not easily fit into my lifestyle - it is something I have to dedicate time and money to. It makes me a bit sad that I will probably never have the time to rack up thousands of jumps like some of you have. So, I think many people go tandem for the experience. Those who like it may come back for more. Only those who really love it will be able to spend the time and money to continue. There's one other factor which comes into play: FEAR. When I went on my tandem, there was very little fear. Sure, I was scared jumping out of a plane, but I knew nothing about mals or what could go wrong on the way down. I knew nothing about incident numbers or safety regs or any of that. Once we were out of the plane, it never crossed my mind that there would actually be a problem. Now, after ground school and much studying, I know a lot more about what can go wrong. Reading the incidents forum and seeing very experienced divers die because of a small mistake makes me nervous :) After all, I make mistakes all the time. I consider myself a good driver, but I have had an accident. In skydiving, a mistake can be and often is fatal. This might be enough to knock out the rest of the students. Personally, I don't think AFF prepares you enough to jump solo. Students might make it partway or all the way through AFF, realize they don't really know all that much, and without the security of having a JM there might not have the confidence to jump. Sorry for rambling, just my $0.02 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 150 #13 November 20, 2004 Well said..... Apart from a couple of bits.....a mistake in skydiving is rarely fatal......because fatalities are actually quite rare......I've seen heaps of people get away with major mistakes.....but one or two others die thru tiny errors....... Basically, I think, if your number is up......you're gonna go....whatever you're doing at the time........ I 've never considered anyone a skydiver/parachutist until they've jumped solo......tandem is just a passenger ride.....just like a flight in a commercial aircraft doesn't make a person a pilot....however tandems are really important in introducing people to the sport............ Skydiving didn't become "normal" till tandems came along......winning a 50 year battle for acceptance by the public and politicians as something normal to do, as opposed to an activity previously perceived as something only for lunatics or the military...... Seeing an 82 year old doing a tandem in 1989, realising he was born about the same time the Wright brothers flew, just blew me away.....an impossibility made real......hugely good stuff.... Amazingly, it the first time I've ever seen a statement that concurs with a belief I've always held.... That AFF doesn't prepare you to jump solo..... The intensive training about the freefall part of the jump dominates, (with good reason), but, at the same time, doesn't cover in depth some of the other aspects (canopy control, emergency drillls, self reliance) to the degree it could do.......... The evidence for this opinion, apart from my own observation, is the evidence I see on these boards every day......an appalling level of ignorance about skydiving by people who have a mostly AFF background......it regularly shocks me... As an instructor, its always been my mission to make sure people do at least TWO jumps on their first day if at all possible......retention rates are huge if it happens......and its actually very little extra work......95% of which is done before jump #1 anyway........... At a wild, rough, guess however, just to throw some numbers around, out of 10,000 solo first jumpers I've trained.....probably 3,000 did a second jump, and about 500 got to "A" licence (25 jumps). 23 became tandem masters, 15 became instructors, and 5 now own and run their own DZ's. None of them died skydiving. A couple smacked themselves up pretty good thru simple brainlocks, and did hospital time for it...... 4 had mals on their first jump, and dealt with properly.... A lot did only one jump, "to see what it was like". Fine by me........its all they intended to do.... I'm quite proud of these figures.. The problems preventing retention are pretty standard......weather, money, family pressure. Fear was never really a factor.......testament to my brilliant training.....and awesome personality...... I'd be interested to see a few other figures, but I would be surprised to see any that are better...which shows that retention rates aren't that great................ Over 30 years though, I think retention rates have improved......but its a lot easier to skydive today than it used to be....... I think everyone should do one.....its a life changing experience..... NOTHING else compares.......My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #14 November 20, 2004 our DZ trains roughly 100 S/L and tandem students a semister... about 1 will stick with it and get their license. mind you, it can't be the expense because its about $500 to get your A license at my DZ MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grlsgotalot2lrn 0 #15 November 20, 2004 I completely agree. Sept 11 I did a tandem for my 30th, and knew it had changed me forever. After that day, I knew that I've never longed for something like I was longing for another jump. So of I quickly signed up. I shelled out $600 over the course of a month for one more tandem, gound school, and aff jump I and II. And now, it's Nov 19, I've opened all the bills, and realized that I need to really need to get my finances in order as I enter this not so cheap addiction. . In the meantime I'm reading the sims, checked out every skydiving book my library offers, watched videos, and lurked and posted here (kind of like masturbating when you really want intercourse). As I gain knowledge, I feel very inexperienced and wonder if I'll ever really notice other people in the sky, much less do rw. I don't think I fear jumping out of an airplane, I think I fear not jumping out of airplane. I know knowledge is powerful, but experience is priceless. So while I try to catch up and budget, may an unusually sunny day sneak in(hopefully right after payday) and give me the wonderful oppurtunity to jump! Can anyone offer advice on how to practice and prepare if i do lose currency? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob.dino 1 #16 November 20, 2004 Everyone quits skydiving some time . At my DZ, about 8% of those that do the first jump course finish their AFF. In Australia AFF doesn't start with tandem jumps, so this figure excludes all those who got given gift certs, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
treeman 0 #17 November 20, 2004 i just started aff i did 2 tandems then 1&2aff the only reason i aint jumpin is the weather is terrible. where can you jump during the week? i had a terrible fear of falling ( im a tree climber by trade) and it is the best thing that ive ever done. dont know how i went this long without skydiving. its greeeaat! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brodes 0 #18 November 20, 2004 I had a 4 month break between my AFF1 And AFF2 and i really cant say why, it's weird. I dont remember what stopped me from doing stage 2 straight away, OR what made me do it 4 months later. Anyway Im here for good now! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #19 November 20, 2004 In my case.. I made my first jump in 1977 - static line, T10, belly reserve, capewells...the old stuff. You old-timers will remember that emergency procedures were very complicated. I did 14 jumps and quit because I was never confident that I could handle emergency procedures if the need arose. Since technology has progressed so well, today's emergency procedures are rather tame by comparison so I rejoined the ranks after a short 27-year layoff. I would venture that a lack of confidence contributes heavily to a jumper's decision to quit although the ego may prevent admitting it.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites justaflygirl 0 #20 November 20, 2004 QuoteThe vast majority of students only want to do one jump, so they can brag in the bar afterwards. A good school can train 5% of its first-timers to A-level. Half of those A-holders will buy gear and stick around for 3, maybe 4 years. Just with my expierence in life and the world, I know you are correct on this, however I still do not understand it, from my first jump to now, skydiving is such a huge part of my life and I can not concieve how someone can only make 1 jump or even more than that leave the sport after 3 or 4 years. It just doesnt make in any sense to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mayberry 0 #21 November 20, 2004 Quoteweather, money, family pressure. Agreed. I did my first tandem in Nov. 2002 & was immediately hooked. Since then I've saved my pennies & tried to learn all I could about jumping & was finally able to start AFF this year. So far it has been a juggling act to try & keep all the balls in the air & get myself in the air as well. I sometimes get a little disappointed with myself when I read the "Weekend Numbers" posts in Bonfire & see everyone out jumping, going to boogies, having fun & learning, wondering to myself "What am I doing wrong?" I wish I could spend all day every day at the dz jumping, but my life away from it and my family have to be & still are my top priorities. I'll get there someday...it will just take me a little longer which I don't mind. DonDon Here's to friends! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GQ_jumper 4 #22 November 20, 2004 I know a good number of people who have started and never finished even the student program. I couldn't give you any stats, but for reasons, i am guessing money is one of the big ones. me personally i made my first freefall and was hooked, and ended up digging into my retirement account in a desperate effort to make more jumps.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #23 November 20, 2004 Quoteit can't be the expense because its about $500 to get your A license at my DZ AM I the only one to think this is a bargain? From jump #1? 25 jump tickets alone would cost me $500! "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Dougiefresh 0 #24 November 20, 2004 QuoteFrom jump #1? 25 jump tickets alone would cost me $500! Yes, this is the patented "train yourself" program. You tie the corners of a bedsheet together and jump off the roof. Bedsheet: $15 Hospital bill: $485 The USPA recommends AFF. More expensive but less painful. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 1naFLYhi 0 #25 November 21, 2004 Ditto and I can't help Just living the addiction Skydiving: Gravity-powered flight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
popsjumper 2 #19 November 20, 2004 In my case.. I made my first jump in 1977 - static line, T10, belly reserve, capewells...the old stuff. You old-timers will remember that emergency procedures were very complicated. I did 14 jumps and quit because I was never confident that I could handle emergency procedures if the need arose. Since technology has progressed so well, today's emergency procedures are rather tame by comparison so I rejoined the ranks after a short 27-year layoff. I would venture that a lack of confidence contributes heavily to a jumper's decision to quit although the ego may prevent admitting it.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justaflygirl 0 #20 November 20, 2004 QuoteThe vast majority of students only want to do one jump, so they can brag in the bar afterwards. A good school can train 5% of its first-timers to A-level. Half of those A-holders will buy gear and stick around for 3, maybe 4 years. Just with my expierence in life and the world, I know you are correct on this, however I still do not understand it, from my first jump to now, skydiving is such a huge part of my life and I can not concieve how someone can only make 1 jump or even more than that leave the sport after 3 or 4 years. It just doesnt make in any sense to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mayberry 0 #21 November 20, 2004 Quoteweather, money, family pressure. Agreed. I did my first tandem in Nov. 2002 & was immediately hooked. Since then I've saved my pennies & tried to learn all I could about jumping & was finally able to start AFF this year. So far it has been a juggling act to try & keep all the balls in the air & get myself in the air as well. I sometimes get a little disappointed with myself when I read the "Weekend Numbers" posts in Bonfire & see everyone out jumping, going to boogies, having fun & learning, wondering to myself "What am I doing wrong?" I wish I could spend all day every day at the dz jumping, but my life away from it and my family have to be & still are my top priorities. I'll get there someday...it will just take me a little longer which I don't mind. DonDon Here's to friends! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GQ_jumper 4 #22 November 20, 2004 I know a good number of people who have started and never finished even the student program. I couldn't give you any stats, but for reasons, i am guessing money is one of the big ones. me personally i made my first freefall and was hooked, and ended up digging into my retirement account in a desperate effort to make more jumps.History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #23 November 20, 2004 Quoteit can't be the expense because its about $500 to get your A license at my DZ AM I the only one to think this is a bargain? From jump #1? 25 jump tickets alone would cost me $500! "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougiefresh 0 #24 November 20, 2004 QuoteFrom jump #1? 25 jump tickets alone would cost me $500! Yes, this is the patented "train yourself" program. You tie the corners of a bedsheet together and jump off the roof. Bedsheet: $15 Hospital bill: $485 The USPA recommends AFF. More expensive but less painful. Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1naFLYhi 0 #25 November 21, 2004 Ditto and I can't help Just living the addiction Skydiving: Gravity-powered flight Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
