dgskydive 0 #1 November 8, 2004 I hate dealers that don't give a shit! I hate dealers that would rather make a buck then worry about someone getting hurt. I don't want to say names but, I just had a guy with 60 jumps call me and was shocked to find out that a wing loading of 1.8 on a fully elliptical canopy was not the smartest thing for him to do at this point in his progression. The dealer in question told him he would be ok as long as he wasn't a shit bag! WTF!?!? This same dealer also sold a 107 Stilletto to a jumper with less then 100 jumps that is loaded at over 2.0. On top of that the container the guy has is made for a 190 and he is putting the 107 into it because he was told it would be easier to close the container!!!!!! I don't usually bad talk other dealers to customers. I had to with this guy. I can't believe a person can stay in business for over 20 years and still do shit like that?!?!?! I go out of my mind when I see or hear stuff like this!!!!!!!!!!!! WE need a mad face with smoke coming out of it ears iicon on here!Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kai2k1 0 #2 November 8, 2004 Dude, thatzs fucked up!! There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #3 November 8, 2004 Really? Anyway we can black flag a dealer giving advice like that? Its not a large nation-wide dealer is it? Have you thought about contacting PD, since it seems he's a PD dealer, and seeing what they say? He can't be a dealer if none of the manufactures allow him to be a dealer.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #4 November 8, 2004 I am not for the black listing thing. I think it would hurt good people that just got the wool puled over their eyes. This dealer is well known and has been around for years. The thing is that many jumpers I have talked to know the way the guy is and still buys from him. You don't need to think tohard about who it is, if you have been around for any length of time. Quote He can't be a dealer if none of the manufactures allow him to be a dealer. To be honest, most manufactures know about this person. They still allow him to be a dealer. I don't know if PD knows for sure. If it was as easy as a phone call to stop him, believe me I would have done it way before now. It's just to easy for the dealer to say "Hey, I didn't say that. Not in a million years would I say that." This same dealer sold a Stilletto to a friend of mine a year ago that he said was new. The thing had like 200 jumps on it when she got it. You could tell it was a used canopy without a doubt. SHe sent it back to this person. I few weeks later a friend of hers bought a "NEW" Stiletto from the same deale. He sent her the canopy he had already sent to my other friend. SHe had put 10 or so jumps on it before she sent it back. What a fucker!Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 November 8, 2004 Yeah, I guess I was just grasping in the dark, wanting to see there was something the jumping community could do. I guess unethical practices from manufactures/dealers really burns me. Especially when it puts people in serious danger of death, such as canopy choice, etc.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #6 November 8, 2004 Very frustrating! The day that I quite SQ1, I am going to write a tell all book and name bad dealers in it and tell horror stories from actual customers of this person. I bet it would sell pretty good.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #7 November 8, 2004 Rest assured, that as long as people think its appropriate to shield the names of unscrupulous dealers or unethical manufacturers, they will not fail to disapear, but thrive, prosper, and multiply. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 November 8, 2004 Yeah, these sort of dealers make me want to RALPH all over my keyboard.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #9 November 8, 2004 > Yeah, these sort of dealers make me want to RALPH all over my keyboard. Yep. A good reminder that the best deal may not end up being the best deal, especially from dealers who will do anything to sell gear and advertise suspiciously low prices in the back of Parachutist. There are a great many good gear dealers out there - Square One, Gravity Gear, the Chute Shop to name a few - and it can be foolish to go for price over quality, especially with something as important as a rig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #10 November 8, 2004 I just need to becareful what I say Andy. It sucks. For me to blast a dealer by name in public could get me in trouble in more ways then one. Dave you sick or something?Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 November 8, 2004 QuoteDave you sick or something? Not sure. Maybe I should CALL my doctor due to the RALPH all over my keyboard...--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #12 November 8, 2004 QuoteI hate dealers that don't give a shit! I hate dealers that would rather make a buck then worry about someone getting hurt. What about the people this guy learned from and jumps with? Anyone asking for such a canopy missed a few key points in his training, like how to live! It is a two way road here! (or perhaps three way if the DZ lets this guy get on the bus.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #13 November 9, 2004 QuoteWhat about the people this guy learned from and jumps with? Anyone asking for such a canopy missed a few key points in his training, like how to live! It is a two way road here! (or perhaps three way if the DZ lets this guy get on the bus.) That is a whole different topic. For the record. The guy with the 107 was here with one of his senior instructors from his home DZ. I spent an entire night bowling with them and took every chance I had to tell them both what I thought of the situation. I think the word that Hooknswoop uses is Apathy. I gave this guy shit for over a week. He asked me who was a good packer that he could use. I told him they are all very good. So good that they won't pack you rig because it is so dangerous.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #14 November 9, 2004 >What about the people this guy learned from and jumps with? One of the problems here is that new jumpers hear "you have to ask questions and keep learning!" So they get an unscrupulous gear dealer on the phone, and he feeds them some line of bull about how everyone is jumping Novas, and they're really safe. And this guy thinks "Gee, I've never heard of the Nova, but this guy's been in the business for 20 years and I only have 20 jumps; I should take his advice." New jumpers are vulnerable to this sort of thing until they have enough jumps that they trust their own instincts when it comes to things like this. Once the gear comes in, generally someone experienced will catch them before they do something stupid. But by that time, often it's too late. If Ralph the Unscrupulous Gear Dealer (note that I picked that name completely at random, really) already has his money, he might be out of luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #15 November 9, 2004 QuoteI go out of my mind when I see or hear stuff like this!!!!!!!!!!!! Hey brother, you want me to cap him for you? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VectorBoy 0 #16 November 9, 2004 Take it easy Dom it could just be some of the boys back in the stock room crank calling you...... again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VanillaSkyGirl 6 #17 November 9, 2004 Got it, Dave. Thanks for the info, Dom. Good to know! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #18 November 9, 2004 Hee hee hee hee hee Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #19 November 9, 2004 did you actually pick that name at random.. when I was looking for gear I remember talking to a dealer whos name sounded a lot like that, and he spouted a bunch of crap, didn't have what I was looking for and told me it wasn't what I needed any way .. and he had in stock JUST WHAT I NEEDED .. which he proceded to tell me what I needed.. I thanked him and said I'd call back .. he never said anything really out of line but I just got a "used car salesmen at a lemon lot" sort of feeling Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #20 November 9, 2004 Quotedid you actually pick that name at random.. when I was looking for gear I remember talking to a dealer whos name sounded a lot like that, and he spouted a bunch of crap, That must be pure coincidence.... really, it must be the only explanation.... I'd buy a lottery ticket if I were you, that much coincidence is a sign!Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 0 #21 November 9, 2004 QuoteQuotedid you actually pick that name at random.. when I was looking for gear I remember talking to a dealer whos name sounded a lot like that, and he spouted a bunch of crap, That must be pure coincidence.... really, it must be the only explanation.... I'd buy a lottery ticket if I were you, that much coincidence is a sign! Alot of coincidences in this thread! I once ordered a container from a place with a familiar sounding name mentioned above and got screwed. Luckily only out of 10 weeks of order time and several phone calls but no money! Yes sir alot of coincidences here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LittleOne 0 #22 November 9, 2004 Would it be possible to add a Dealer Review section to dropzone.com? For that matter, could a section be added to rate/review Classifieds sellers and buyers, a la ebay? I recently purchased a few items through the Classifieds and after contacting the sellers, we were all somewhat concerned about each other's integrity. Luckily, my transactions were completed successfully but who knows if there are some bogus sellers out there. These are services that I would be willing to pay for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 333 #23 November 9, 2004 I recently bought some new gear, mail order, from a dealer in Florida. They don't know me, didn't ask my experience, were happy to sell me a 107 Katana. In my case, it was okay, but I was a bit surprised that they didn't ask any questions regarding my experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #24 November 9, 2004 QuoteI recently bought some new gear, mail order, from a dealer in Florida. They don't know me, didn't ask my experience, were happy to sell me a 107 Katana. In my case, it was okay, but I was a bit surprised that they didn't ask any questions regarding my experience. As a dealer you make a lot of calls by instinct. You can tell if a guy has been around by the questions they ask, by the answers they give. They should have asked your jump numbers, what type of canopies have you been jumping things like that to gage where you stand. No one dealer is perfect. I myself have probably sold something to someone that wasn't qualified for it. We are all human, we may not ask all the right questions that day. Or our radar might be jammed up. That is why I am against any type of black list or things of that nature. I can honestly say that we always try our best to find out if the gear you want is the gear that is suited for you, but shit happens from time to time. Now the dealer in question in this thread, had all the right info and still choose to sell this his future pain and suffering. To me it shows a complete lack of respect for human life and our sport and the image that it gets when a D.G.I.T goes in. The only way we can be 100% sure would be to have some sort of license for different canopy sizes and wingloadings. Customer- "Hey, I really want a Stiletto 107!" Dealer- "Sure. Send me a copy of your canopy rating card from the USPA and I will be happy to send you that canopy if you are so rated for it." Ahh, a perfect world. Wouldn't that be nice.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #25 November 9, 2004 QuoteHey brother, you want me to cap him for you?Cool I love ya more everyday Spark!Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
