nightjumps 1 #51 February 28, 2004 Easy Rule: Black & White Coach - may discuss the generic portions of the FJC and dive flow regarding Cats G & H Instructors - Category A - "A" License Non-rated skydivers - share your experience and close the sentance with - discuss it with your Instructor or Coach first. If you are sharing your exerience to help - good. If you are sharing your experience to make yourself look better - bad. That's all we ask. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
algboy 0 #52 February 29, 2004 Unfortunately I trained at a school w/some pretty taciturn instructors. I got the bulk of my training from reading issue after issue of "Parachuting" and "Skydiving", re-reading Poynter's book and watching every video I could find. I recall that some of my most helpful suggestions DID come from fellow students who were more than willing to share their thoughts/experiences (sans attitude). I feel that I could explain the motions of doing a backflip at least as well as MY instructor did. Of course--I'd still refer them back to THEIR instructor. Seems to me: if a student is roaming around the DZ asking advice, I'd be concerned that they are having a problem with their instructor. Either it was a DZ problem--or maybe my "vibe"--but my AFF instructors seemed to think I didn't need any detailed coaching and I sweated out most of my jumps. I did a lot of "dirt dives" on my living room floor. I guess it helped--some. I'm glad that some of the newbies, with just a few jumps over me, took the time to explain their experiences and re-live their jumps with me. I think a "second opinion" (even from a fellow flailer) can help A LOT--as long as it doesn't replace the instructor's place at the HEAD OF THE LINE. A caveat: I can also recall fellow jumpers telling me I'd be "perfect" for a 150Sq Ft Sabre (I'm 195 lbs.) as soon as I got off student status. I managed not to take THAT advice.“Keep your elbow up!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #53 February 29, 2004 Bruce, You bring up a good point. One of an Instructor's top priorities is to be "Approachable." Nobody learns at the same pace, nor learns the same way. Over the years, we have developed an "off-the-shelf" 6-8 hour First Jump Course. And, while this is good for about 80% of the folks who walk through our doors, there are another 20% that either "don't get" what we're saying or we have a communication barrier. I work at a small drop zone. As such, I have a lot more flexibility of time. We hold classes for those who wish to jump that weekend the Thursday prior to jump day - no matter which level, no matter which learning discipline (IAD, S/L, AFF, AFP). They are then given homework assignments to practice and encouraged to find questions to ask when they come in on jump day. Our goal is to teach for the 20%, not the 80%. On those occcasions that I can see the student's nonverbals that they are not getting me... they first get additional training with me after class. If we are still not communicating, they get handed off to another Instructor. On those occasions, that I feel myself suffering from "Instructor Burnout," I will talk with the DZO about it, take myself out of rotation and go play in someone else's backyard until my batteries re-charge. This is a two-sided coin. Instructors must ensure they are "Approachable" and students have a "responsibility" to communicate to their instructors or someone else on the staff that they "feel" they need more than what they are getting. The DZ's have a responsibility to ensure they provide a climate that encourages questions and that students won't feel "stupid" for asking questions. I will tell you that as I travel to different DZs and observe training to take bits and pieces from each one to include in my training (steal, steal, steal), rarely have I found an environment that you describe. Your situation is the exception, not the rule. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinjackflash 0 #54 March 1, 2004 I think your completely right. I was at the dz this weekend for the first time since shit weather hit the midwest. Ran into one of my favorite jm's. He mentioned how happy he was to see I wasn't posting alot on dz.com, and we talked. I told him that I realized after a while that I had less to say than most. I realized that I needed to sit back quietly and read and learn from those on this site that had experience, etc.... I understand now what he was getting at too though. That was us low timers should really attempt to constrain our mouths when someone is asking a technical question. That our zeal to help could end up injuring someone (or worse). Which was a fine point indeed. I know I very carefully pick and choose those I rely on for information. Even though, if I see something, I'll always go back to them and ask. It's hard though not to jump in when you get excited. But I've managed to do it, and I'll continue to. peace, JackIt's a gas, gas, gas... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #55 March 1, 2004 Your situation is not the norm. And this is the problem with people giving advice.. Quote I can also recall fellow jumpers telling me I'd be "perfect" for a 150Sq Ft Sabre (I'm 195 lbs.) as soon as I got off student status. They don't know, and you don't have all the filters needed to tell. This was a good call on your part...but how many other bad pieces of advice did they give you that you didn't catch?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kat1221 0 #56 March 4, 2004 Its sad to see how many posts are being answered by people with well under 100 jumps, when there are so many people on this forum with thousands of jumps, years of experience and instructor ratings. Just because your instructor told you the answer, doesn't mean you need to share it! Its hard to remember, but to people with really low jumps number or whuffos, 30 jumps is a lot. When I had 30 jumps I was asked by a tandem student if, with all my wisdom and experience, I was taking people stapped to me too, just like her TM with 5000 jumps. Another time I was talking to a guy, who I didn't recognise as a regular and he said that he was going to get a little more experience skydiving, and then switch to BASE, because that was really what he was interested in. I assumed he was from another DZ then, so I asked how many jumps he had and his reply was 'Well, I haven't jumped yet, but....' He was a tandem student - never came back, so I guess he got all the experience he needed! My point is that when you are so new to the sport it seems as if 20, 50 or 150 jumps are a lot. With the exception of people on DZ.com everyday, a lot of newbies don't know that 50 jumps doesn't mean you know everything, and we have to be careful in what we tell them. Same for whuffo friends who are thinking about jumping. Share experiences, but keep in mind that these people don't know to take what you say with a grain of salt.... to a lot of people 50 or 5000 jumps are both 'a lot', and the person with 50 jumps may seem a bit more approachable... Sorry for the length - its an excellent thread that I agree with vonSanta 100%. Its funny - I think I knew most about skydiving around jump #30 - since then I keep seeing how little I know, and how much I have to learn. Thats the best thing about this sport. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #57 March 5, 2004 I wanna thank everone for their replies - it's much appreciated and I thik that at least I personally have learned a bit more about what to/what not to do/say, and about the skydiving culture in general. Thanks dudes. And dudettes. Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #58 March 5, 2004 I agree with you... I'm still very much a newbie myself, but people with one or two jumps think 32 jumps is a lot. I'll answer questions about stuff I know, like "how do you work through door fear?" or "how do you know what order to get on the plane in?" and stuff like that. If they ask me for landing tips or freefall stuff, the answer's always "ask an instructor. I don't know a whole lot more than you do." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Decibel 0 #59 March 6, 2004 QuoteMy point is that when you are so new to the sport it seems as if 20, 50 or 150 jumps are a lot. With the exception of people on DZ.com everyday, a lot of newbies don't know that 50 jumps doesn't mean you know everything, and we have to be careful in what we tell them. Heh, maybe that's one piece of advice that everyone can give... yet again tonight someone was astounded by my 45 jumps and said something like 'wow, that's a lot!'. My advice to them was that no, 45 isn't very many at all... 15,000 is ' a lot'. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kate1973 0 #60 March 6, 2004 i only have 50 jumps and overall, the only thing i know for definate about skydiving is the more i learn, the more i know i have to learn. its a good feeling "Work to live, dont live to work" http://www.valkyrie4way.co.yk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #61 March 6, 2004 Keeping ones mouth shut is of course very true...referring people to their instructors is also the right thing to do....but Ron...not just in this post but in several others I have read, you tend to emphasise the skygod quality that makes students not 'dare' ask instructors for fear or ridicule. Nobody doubts your experience /qualifications as being excellent......but IMHO you are lacking what is a very admirable quality in a person as well as an instructor.....non confrontational approachability... Yes you do know more than most of us....but then share the experience you have with us freely....or if you dont want to do that....bite your tongue, so to speak. Telling people...me included ( In a different post) that you expect them to 'bounce ' sub 100 jumps is NOT the responsible, motivational 'chat' you should be expressing to low time jumpers. Im of the firm believe...if someone asks me a question...of course refer them to an instructor, but if they specifically ask for your help ,share YOUR experience with them as well...... Ron non one is trying to say that someone with < 100jumps is qualified to 'teach' people....they are not....but dont insult people by saying they shouldnt share their experiences with them as well. I apologise if this sounds like a prsonal attack...it is not intended to be....its observational commentry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #62 March 7, 2004 QuoteKeeping ones mouth shut is of course very true...referring people to their instructors is also the right thing to do....but Ron...not just in this post but in several others I have read, you tend to emphasise the skygod quality that makes students not 'dare' ask instructors for fear or ridicule. You read what you want to read. I have many people ask me questions every day...At the real DZ and here on DZ.com. I am VERY approachable, if you are willing to actually listen. If you act like you know it all....Then I will act in a way that seems to have gotten your panites in a wad. Quotebut IMHO you are lacking what is a very admirable quality in a person as well as an instructor.....non confrontational approachability... Then its quite clear you don't know me at all. Or you have VERY thin skin. QuoteTelling people...me included ( In a different post) that you expect them to 'bounce ' sub 100 jumps is NOT the responsible, motivational 'chat' you should be expressing to low time jumpers. Yeah....Um its a little thing called a joke...Look up "joke" in a dictonary. Its black humor....Skydiving is full of dark humor. And the whole qoute goes something like this...."Congrats on your 100th jump. Me and the boys now think you will at least bounce with something pulled...You will pull something, but it won't be the right thing or in time to do any good." QuoteRon non one is trying to say that someone with < 100jumps is qualified to 'teach' people. Bull shit...It happens here all the time. I know of one person with under 100 jumps that got kicked off of two DZ's that was on here giving canopy advice. I know of plenty of 100 jump wonders giving advice on here. And frankly not only is it stupid, but it can also be dangerous. You may not like what I say or how I say it...guess what? I could not give a shit what you think. I get PM's every mth from folks that thank me. I got one last week from a guy just last week. Here it is: (With permission) QuoteHey Ron. As corny as this may sound, I think that you deserve to know that I have a new appreciation for you. I've agreed with what I've seen you post on these forums 99% of the time. One thing I always thought, though, was Man, Ron does come off some times like a jerk the 'way' he makes his point. I don't feel that way anymore. Anyway, I just wanted you to know that I'm beginning to understand how you and other people can become so sick of beating your head against a wall trying to help people. I hope I haven't come off as sounding like I think I'm in some position of great authority and experience, but as I said, I'm starting to get a taste, and I really appreciate all the crap you must've seen and been through over the last 10 years. Well, Ron, keep up the good work and stay safe. I also get the "You are a jerk" PM's....Ya wanna know something funny? The same guy that sent me the PM above...sent me a "You are a jerk" PM a year ago. Cool huh? And I just got another PM today...I can't post it since I don't have permission yet from the guy. So while you may not like how I say the things that I say....remember I don't care, and others still learn from it. The ones that have the biggest problem with me...seem to have the biggest egos and already "know" what they are doing. Ask anyone from Zhills if I am approachable. Have a nice day...Stay safe, and I really do hope you make it to 100 jumps"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MarkM 0 #63 March 7, 2004 The whole point of the safety and training forum isn't a feel good conversation or even to be "right" in an arguement, but to have discussions that challenge people's ideas and preconceptions. To get people to think about things in a way they wouldn't have before. The important point isn't whether or not you agree with Ron or how Ron discusses things, but whether Ron puts forward a position that makes you think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #64 March 8, 2004 Yes but there is a 'right way' of doing it. Ive never met Ron...but I have read alot of his advice and 'comments' and my opinion of him from these is that he is a very informed and experienced skydiver ....but arrogant. Im not sure I have ever read a post Ron has replied to...where he actually 'takes on' points or advice....most is..well confrontational and sometimes insulting....and yes I do learn stuff from what Ron posts....but then again...I learn from alot of other people who are alot more easygoing to chat/post with And Ron...yes I will make it to/past 100jumps ....I dont think I need to have several thousand jumps to have an opinion on that Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #65 March 8, 2004 QuoteYes but there is a 'right way' of doing it. "Right" for you may not be "right" for someone else. Sometimes it takes someone being non-politically correct to get a point across to someone else. Some people learn and react best to a "positive motivational coach"; some people learn and react best to a more gruff, almost confrontational style. Assholes are common in this sport. Looking back, I learned more from one asshole than I've learned from any other one person in this sport. I didn't realize it at the time though. Now I wish I'd been able to thank him before he died. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #66 March 8, 2004 QuoteYes but there is a 'right way' of doing it Different people have different learning styles. Touchy, mushy BS has no place in skydiving. It is a harsh sport. People die. The ground does not care how you feel, and I don't either. QuoteIve never met Ron...but I have read alot of his advice and 'comments' and my opinion of him from these is that he is a very informed and experienced skydiver ....but arrogant. Well, you are entitled to your opinion....Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one, but I don't want to hear it. And since you have never met me...You are going off of very little info. I would suggest you: A. Meet me, then decide. B. Ignore me. C. Read what I write, ignore how I present it and shut up about me being a jerk. (It's not like anyone cares, and I'm not going to change to make you happy). From what I have read of you...You seem to be a cry baby that needs people to care about them, and try not to hurt your feelings.....Don't look to me for that. You want the harsh truth as told by a guy that has been around a while, and done some stuff? Call me then. QuoteIm not sure I have ever read a post Ron has replied to...where he actually 'takes on' points or advice I suggest you read more/and post less then. Quote....and yes I do learn stuff from what Ron posts Well, then what I do works huh? QuoteAnd Ron...yes I will make it to/past 100jumps ....I dont think I need to have several thousand jumps to have an opinion on that Every person who died skydiving...ALL thought they were not going to. Edit to add: And if you think I'm an arrogant asshole...The simple fix is to just quit whining and quit reading anything I write. Posting I'm an arrogant asshole is just stupid, and a waste of bandwidth. Just send me a "your a Jerk" PM and move on with your life."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #67 March 8, 2004 Posting I'm an arrogant asshole is just stupid, and a waste of bandwidth. LOL Hey Ron it was your bandwidth you wasted to begin with. blues jerry edit for spelling Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #68 March 8, 2004 Ron everytime you post now...you just continue to prove and reinforce points I have made about you in earlier posts... Hows the air up there in skygodsville ?..Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #69 March 8, 2004 QuoteRon everytime you post now...you just continue to prove and reinforce points I have made about you in earlier posts... Hows the air up there in skygodsville ?.. Its fine here....How is it in Crybaby land? Get a thicker skin. And I really do hope you make it to 100 jumps. Tell ya what, call me when you get 3,000...Lets see if you make that, and then we will see what you think of my attitude. I bet it will change from where you are now."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zoter 0 #70 March 8, 2004 Every post now Ron..... Keep digging...the holes getting bigger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #71 March 8, 2004 QuoteEvery post now Ron..... Keep digging...the holes getting bigger You ramble like a small crying child that can't get his way. Which in this sport you are. diaper change?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zoter 0 #72 March 8, 2004 As Im sure you will do Ron.....I'll let your reply be the last 'word' ....it obviously means alot to ya...and I would not deny a baby his rattle ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 273 #73 March 8, 2004 Knock it off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Shark 0 #74 March 8, 2004 QuoteKeeping one's mouth shut... I guess it can work both ways. As experienced skydivers we can make our point and shouldn't feel the need to debate it. As newbies, we should be doing more listening and less arguing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #75 March 8, 2004 QuoteAs Im sure you will do Ron.....I'll let your reply be the last 'word' ....it obviously means alot to ya...and I would not deny a baby his rattle Uh stud...you were the one that turned this thread into a "bash Ron" thread. Which is fine...Your opinion of me means nothing to me. You are acting like a child. Instead of listening you want to speak. You have tons to learn, but act like you already know it all. You are a true 100 jump wonder. When I started skydiving a guy with 1,000 jumps was a guy that I would listen to. Today guys like you would rather bash the ones that take the time to try and help. Ask yourself one tiny question...Why do you think I even post here? Ya think I just love to type? Or could it be I'm trying to give back to the sport? But I encounter guys like you that instead of listening to the lesson, cry about the delivery. Or they already "know it all" and don't bother to listen. I see these guys get picked up in body bags every year. To busy talking to stop and listen to advice. Already know it all so why bother? You would rather slander me and call me names like a child than listen to what I have to say. You have so much to learn....I really hope you get over your childish nature and open your ears to learn. Another aspect of this sport that has changed...When I started a guy with 1,000 jumps was rare...And most didn't "waste" time trying to help the new guys. But when they did, the new guys shut up and listend....Today the new jumpers already "know it all"...I guess the first jump course has gotten MUCH better. When I went through it I knew just enough to not get killed. And this whole thread is a perfect example of of the topic. You a newbie will not keep his mouth shut. Instead you would rather attack me. this post http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=963352#963352 You started with the slander. Quotebut Ron...not just in this post but in several others I have read, you tend to emphasise the skygod quality that makes students not 'dare' ask instructors for fear or ridicule. Which is wrong...I have people ask me questions every day. But I guess its more fun to call people names than have facts. QuoteNobody doubts your experience /qualifications as being excellent......but IMHO you are lacking what is a very admirable quality in a person as well as an instructor.....non confrontational approachability Again...I am very approachable...If you are not a jerk when you ask, or if you don't act like you already know it all....Or if you don't attack me. QuoteTelling people...me included ( In a different post) that you expect them to 'bounce ' sub 100 jumps is NOT the responsible, motivational 'chat' you should be expressing to low time jumpers. And I already said once that this is a joke...But you still don't get it. Until you have 100 jumps you really don't know anything. You just think you do...And that is even more dangerous. QuoteRon non one is trying to say that someone with < 100jumps is qualified to 'teach' people....they are not. Check here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=935186#935186 Brian realized that he used to give to much advice. Sevral others have said the same thing...And several others have agreed it happens...But of course you don't see it. Here is a good example of a newbie giving bad advice. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=919251#919251 Not loading it enough? Uh, toggle preasure is more planform than wingload. Here is a good thread about just this topic. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=814049#814049 Here is a great example of a person with less than 100 jumps argueing with an instructor. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=805200#805200 So it does happen...People without the skills trying to teach. QuoteI apologise if this sounds like a prsonal attack...it is not intended to be Well it IS a personal attack..It seems to be the only thing you are good at. Again....Feel free to think what you want...You crying just proves the reason for this thread. If I could go back in time to when In had 70 jumps...I'd smack myself for being so dumb and thinking I knew it all."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 3 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. 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Ron 10 #69 March 8, 2004 QuoteRon everytime you post now...you just continue to prove and reinforce points I have made about you in earlier posts... Hows the air up there in skygodsville ?.. Its fine here....How is it in Crybaby land? Get a thicker skin. And I really do hope you make it to 100 jumps. Tell ya what, call me when you get 3,000...Lets see if you make that, and then we will see what you think of my attitude. I bet it will change from where you are now."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #70 March 8, 2004 Every post now Ron..... Keep digging...the holes getting bigger Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #71 March 8, 2004 QuoteEvery post now Ron..... Keep digging...the holes getting bigger You ramble like a small crying child that can't get his way. Which in this sport you are. diaper change?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zoter 0 #72 March 8, 2004 As Im sure you will do Ron.....I'll let your reply be the last 'word' ....it obviously means alot to ya...and I would not deny a baby his rattle ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #74 March 8, 2004 QuoteKeeping one's mouth shut... I guess it can work both ways. As experienced skydivers we can make our point and shouldn't feel the need to debate it. As newbies, we should be doing more listening and less arguing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #75 March 8, 2004 QuoteAs Im sure you will do Ron.....I'll let your reply be the last 'word' ....it obviously means alot to ya...and I would not deny a baby his rattle Uh stud...you were the one that turned this thread into a "bash Ron" thread. Which is fine...Your opinion of me means nothing to me. You are acting like a child. Instead of listening you want to speak. You have tons to learn, but act like you already know it all. You are a true 100 jump wonder. When I started skydiving a guy with 1,000 jumps was a guy that I would listen to. Today guys like you would rather bash the ones that take the time to try and help. Ask yourself one tiny question...Why do you think I even post here? Ya think I just love to type? Or could it be I'm trying to give back to the sport? But I encounter guys like you that instead of listening to the lesson, cry about the delivery. Or they already "know it all" and don't bother to listen. I see these guys get picked up in body bags every year. To busy talking to stop and listen to advice. Already know it all so why bother? You would rather slander me and call me names like a child than listen to what I have to say. You have so much to learn....I really hope you get over your childish nature and open your ears to learn. Another aspect of this sport that has changed...When I started a guy with 1,000 jumps was rare...And most didn't "waste" time trying to help the new guys. But when they did, the new guys shut up and listend....Today the new jumpers already "know it all"...I guess the first jump course has gotten MUCH better. When I went through it I knew just enough to not get killed. And this whole thread is a perfect example of of the topic. You a newbie will not keep his mouth shut. Instead you would rather attack me. this post http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=963352#963352 You started with the slander. Quotebut Ron...not just in this post but in several others I have read, you tend to emphasise the skygod quality that makes students not 'dare' ask instructors for fear or ridicule. Which is wrong...I have people ask me questions every day. But I guess its more fun to call people names than have facts. QuoteNobody doubts your experience /qualifications as being excellent......but IMHO you are lacking what is a very admirable quality in a person as well as an instructor.....non confrontational approachability Again...I am very approachable...If you are not a jerk when you ask, or if you don't act like you already know it all....Or if you don't attack me. QuoteTelling people...me included ( In a different post) that you expect them to 'bounce ' sub 100 jumps is NOT the responsible, motivational 'chat' you should be expressing to low time jumpers. And I already said once that this is a joke...But you still don't get it. Until you have 100 jumps you really don't know anything. You just think you do...And that is even more dangerous. QuoteRon non one is trying to say that someone with < 100jumps is qualified to 'teach' people....they are not. Check here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=935186#935186 Brian realized that he used to give to much advice. Sevral others have said the same thing...And several others have agreed it happens...But of course you don't see it. Here is a good example of a newbie giving bad advice. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=919251#919251 Not loading it enough? Uh, toggle preasure is more planform than wingload. Here is a good thread about just this topic. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=814049#814049 Here is a great example of a person with less than 100 jumps argueing with an instructor. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=805200#805200 So it does happen...People without the skills trying to teach. QuoteI apologise if this sounds like a prsonal attack...it is not intended to be Well it IS a personal attack..It seems to be the only thing you are good at. Again....Feel free to think what you want...You crying just proves the reason for this thread. If I could go back in time to when In had 70 jumps...I'd smack myself for being so dumb and thinking I knew it all."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
