The111 1 #1 March 4, 2004 Reading the post about tandem mals, I got a crazy idea when someone mentioned cutting away a step through. With regards to a normal solo jumper (i.e. not a tandem), could you grab your risers and do some sort of crazy monkey flip through them to undo a step-through? Or would you risk entanglement and/or stalling the canopy depending on how you grab the risers? I said with regards to a normal jumper because I'd imagine that idea is even crazier and less plausible with a tandem, unless you're massive and your student is a 100lb girl.www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #2 March 4, 2004 I'd say you'd be much better off getting rid of that than trying to fix. You spend too much time and risk further entanglement if it could even be done, which i kinda doubt. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #3 March 4, 2004 Meh, I know it can be done (see Greg Gasson (I think) in Good Stuff), I'm just curious how difficult it is, and how stupid it would be for someone untrained in that type of "stunt" to try it. Honestly, it doesn't seem like it would be too hard, but I could be very wrong...www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #4 March 4, 2004 QuoteMeh, I know it can be done (see Greg Gasson (I think) in Good Stuff), I'm just curious how difficult it is, and how stupid it would be for someone untrained in that type of "stunt" to try it. Honestly, it doesn't seem like it would be too hard, but I could be very wrong... Yeah, that untrained "stunt" part is what I'm goin with. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stacy 0 #5 March 4, 2004 my main opened with a step through (a spectre 150 loaded at about 1.2 at the time) It was perfectly steerable and controllable. I landed it without any incident. __ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wzettler 0 #6 March 4, 2004 I think you should try and hook up your rig to a hanging harness and try! I think when Jesus said "love your enemy" he probably meant don't kill them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #7 March 4, 2004 Quotemy main opened with a step through (a spectre 150 loaded at about 1.2 at the time) It was perfectly steerable and controllable. I landed it without any incident. Same here on a Spectre 170 at about 1.1. The twists in the risers had me a bit freaked, but it turned, flared, flew and landed fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pullhigh 0 #8 March 4, 2004 A buddy of mine landed his Stiletto 120 with a step through. First things first, is it landable? If it is, just land it! Ganja Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #9 March 4, 2004 Quotemy main opened with a step through (a spectre 150 loaded at about 1.2 at the time) It was perfectly steerable and controllable. I landed it without any incident. Had one on an Impulse 135 @ 1.6. The worst thing were the few choice words about the person who packed it that I uttered when the canopy opened and I noticed what had happened. But it flew and landed without a problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #10 March 4, 2004 I've had 2 step throughs ( I still love my packer) on my stiletto. Not a problem landing it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #11 March 4, 2004 Quotecould you grab your risers and do some sort of crazy monkey flip through them to undo a step-through Sure, start carrying some E-thread and a needle incase you need to patch up your canopy in flight. Ok, seriously. What your suggesting would be incredibly dangerous. Especially since just about every single stepthrough I've seen on a sport rig, it rolls down to the base of the risers. All it really is is annoying, the canopy still flies fine, etc. The problem on tandems is the much thicker risers and the MUCH longer toggles. They get wrapped up and you can't work the stepthrough down far enough to get the toggles released. And you do NOT land a tandem pair on rear risers.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #12 March 4, 2004 Landed my Jedei at 1.65 (had lead on) with a step through. Did some tests up high to see how it flew and it was fine so I even did a nice 90 riser turn to final and swooped some. I used to do partial handstands on my Spectre's slider all the time once I learned how. Doing a roll through is an issue because you can snag lines as you roll through and now you've got a one person wrap going on.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #13 March 4, 2004 QuoteI'd say you'd be much better off getting rid of that than trying to fix. You spend too much time and risk further entanglement if it could even be done, which i kinda doubt. And I would not, Benny. A pure step-through poses incredibly little danger to a skydiver once it is open. You, as a very-inexperienced skydiver, passing that "advice" onto someone is terribly wreckless, so please refrain from doing so in the future. Seriously. Having landed several rigs that were packed for me by different people, I have never experienced any problem in landing one. Generally, the twists end up showing themselves down in the risers, yet do not hamper you from unstowing your brakes or flying your canopy. Getting rid of a straight-flying canopy with a pure step-through is asinine. Chuck Blue D-12501 AFF/SL/TM-I Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #14 March 4, 2004 I misunderstood the question and do apologize. I was just really thinking about the swinging out thing. Sorry sorry. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdctlc 0 #15 March 4, 2004 QuoteThe problem on tandems is the much thicker risers and the MUCH longer toggles. They get wrapped up and you can't work the stepthrough down far enough to get the toggles released. And you do NOT land a tandem pair on rear risers. Dave, Even with the snazy new workout you posted you cant do Rears for landing a Tandem, whimp The tandem Cut I had last fall was a bad tension knot on the right side that held the slider up. I could stear but it took a lot to keep it straight. Played to get slider doiwn a bit, nothing worked. Leg wrapped the passanger and said to cross your arms and away we went. Tandem reserves open sloooowwwwww Landed and the guys wife who was up next was freaked a bit. Came back into the building, tightened her harness up and we went to the plane before she had a chance to chicken out. Told here we were in great shape since I just had a cutaway, she was very comforted . Ended up having a great time though! Scott C. Scott C."He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #16 March 4, 2004 Not a strength issue, a safety issue, but you know that.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dbagdrew 0 #17 March 4, 2004 I hooked up twists in my risers for my first night jump. (switching canopies, last minute, in a rush, etc) The twists tripped me out and I had to shine my flashlight on the canopy a couple times to make sure it was going forward. But it steered and flared fine ( once I got the brakes released, which were pinched off a bit) Landed it fine. Never even considered trying to flip back through. Seems like a bad idea to me, unless you're at 10'000 or something, then it sounds like fun.Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge. - Mark Twain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #18 March 4, 2004 Your first jump course should have been very clear on how to correctly identify and deal with a basic malfunction. Most people teach a simple formula, but that formula is frequently a little bit different. Exactly what that formular is isn't terribly important, as long as its generally inline with the other ones. The one that I teach is the "3 S's". Is your canopy Square, Stable, and Steerable? If so, then thats the canopy you're going to land. A step-through is most likely going to satisfy this rule. Given a simple step through, I would evaluate if its square (probably), if its stable (probably), and if its steerable (probably. If this is the case I would land it. I would certainly not try to "correct" a Square, Steerable, and Stable canopy just for the fun of it. If the canopy is not Square, Steerable, or Stable I would make no more then two attempts to fix it, then cut away and deploy my reserve. That said, I would most definately NOT try to flip myself through the lines to correct a step-through. Since by definition we've got a canopy that isn't square, stable, or steerable - the odds of success here seem incredibly small. Actually, the likelihood of things getting really ugly really quickly seem quite high... _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sammer 0 #19 March 4, 2004 I had a friend that tried that last summer. He actually flipped the worng way and made a controllable canopy uncontrollable. I think I have also heard of an incident report about a guy doing this and getting his foot stuck in the lines. That would be my biggest concern. Also, now that I am thinking about it: Whats to keep you from falling out of the harness? That would really suck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
f1shlips 2 #20 March 4, 2004 QuoteGetting rid of a straight-flying canopy with a pure step-through is asinine. Bah, whats the fun in that? It all depends on how close you are to your repack. Remember to spot your stuff...-- drop zone (drop'zone) n. An incestuous sesspool of broken people. -- Attributed to a whuffo girlfriend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #21 March 5, 2004 Quote Also, now that I am thinking about it: Whats to keep you from falling out of the harness? That would really suck. the straps. you can hang upside down in your harness just fine, you won't fall out unless you somehow get the shoulder straps off of your shoulders. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
taz9420 0 #22 March 5, 2004 Paying attention to detail, when packing, will most likely prevent step-throughs. I pack my own, so I have nobody to blame but myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #23 March 5, 2004 Quotethe straps. you can hang upside down in your harness just fine, you won't fall out unless you somehow get the shoulder straps off of your shoulders Yes and no.. I used to be able to take my rig off by sliding under the main pack tray while leaving everything tighten with the main out. Sliding out from a rig is a conversation thats in the archives of the fourm, Kelli (Skykat) and I argued for a week over that one years ago Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,027 #24 March 5, 2004 QuoteQuotemy main opened with a step through (a spectre 150 loaded at about 1.2 at the time) It was perfectly steerable and controllable. I landed it without any incident. Same here on a Spectre 170 at about 1.1. The twists in the risers had me a bit freaked, but it turned, flared, flew and landed fine. I landed a Stiletto 150 with a step through. It was fully controllable.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #25 March 5, 2004 QuotePaying attention to detail, when packing, will most likely prevent step-throughs. I pack my own, so I have nobody to blame but myself. Same here, 99.9% of my jumps have been on my own pack jobs, and I always check the lines for a step through. Just a curious thought which spawned my question... www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
