Chest strap save on load, How common is this?

[skydonkey 0]

I was Jumping in Empuriabrava yesterday and we were just climbing to around 2000 feet in the Twotter. An AFF instuctor calls over to the guy facing me and asks him if he got checked before he got on the plane, the guys hesitates and says No. The instructor then says "Check your chest strap, you are now dead"

He had looped the webbing around the outside of the tension bar and through the bungy! He corrected it and then sat there looking stressed for the rest of the climb. I think he decided not to exit and came down in the plane.

I have heard stories about other DZ's having saves likes and have got into the habit of having a look round at as many other chest straps as I can see, but I usually do it later on the ride before it's time to goggle up. It would have freaked me out to actually spot one though. I would like to think that if the instructor had not spotted it, then I or someone else would have before the exit. I would have found it hard to take if he had gone in, as I was the last person to talk to him before he got in the plane, and almost asked him if he wanted a check.

In the UK we are, some would say a little over the top on checks and it is mandatory to check each other and get signed off before going out to the plane. However when going abroad to jump in larger DZ's with lots of very experienced jumpers around I think there is a tendancy for newbie jumpers to feel that it is un-cool to ask for a check as they see lots of the "big boys" not doing so.

How often do these 'near misses' occur?

How many people make a concious check of those around them on every lift?

Do you think the AFF instructor should have forced the guy to stay in the plane, just in case he had missed something else critical (not cocked PC etc.)

If this kind of thing happens, should the guy be grounded and have some retraining to re-emphasise
the importance of chest strap routing/getting checked.

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

Grounded? No. Maybe persuade him to get a kit check yeah. I like the whole thing over here where you have to have a kit on check. It's not infallible but it can pick up a lot of stuff. But that again can lead to complacency though (i've not really bothered myself a couple of times knowing I'm going to get a flightline check )

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[AggieDave 6]

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Do you think the AFF instructor should have forced the guy to stay in the plane

Not sure about your rules, over here, that AFF instructor has no power over any jumper besides his student. Unless that guy was also the S&TA or DZO.

Chest strap misroutings happen, I've personally caught a couple folks over the last few years, although usually I have a lot more tact then the guy in your story, saying something like "hey, check your chest strap" etc.

I guess I'm a goofy bastard, but if you're sitting near me, I'm giving your gear a visual once over in the plane. You may not know I'm doing that, but I am, if I see something that looks amiss, I'll mention it to you.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[CornishChris 5]

On my AFF my brother was given a gear check on the ground and his chest strap was exctly the same.

I would be interested to know if the guy was an AFF student because if he was then it is the responsibility of his instructors to ensure that this has been checked prior to the jump. - IMHO

I have seen various things caught in the UK on the gear check and a few in Australia in the plane so these things do happen. Make your own guidelines and follow them to ensure they don't happen to you.

I found it odd at 35 jumps not having a compulsary gear check when I got to Aus and I actually think it is a good thing but I now ensure that all my shit is checked by the person I trust - me.

Put it this way that guy will never do that again and nor will you so lesson learnt with no badness attached.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[Hooknswoop 19]

I have caught dozens of mis-routed chest straps. At LP 2002, I caught the same guy twice. It happens.

Derek

[jaybo 0]

I have taken to looking around at those close to me. This is a habit I picked up from observing others do the same. As un-common as it is, there is the occasional adjustment I've witnessed. After all, there is the case of the veteran cameraman loading and jumping sans parachute.
This is a personal choice, one I hope others take up. Thankfully, it seems a prominent occurrence in Florida.

[skydonkey 0]

No, he was a qualified jumper, but I not sure how experienced he was. When it was pointed out to him he looked at the chest strap and couldn't see instantly what was wrong.

Iv'e had it drilled into me that much that I know exactly the picture I want to see when I look down at my own or other straps.

I also dont like the fact that some people jump rigs with so much excess chest strap that they fold it back and forth over the buckle, thus making it real hard to spot.

From the look on his face I don't think he will forget to double check it again.

[CornishChris 5]

I actually fold mine back over...

I go through the ctach and back (correctly) then stow the excess through the bungy bit. then I go back round the outside of the catch and stow any remainder underneath the bungy bit inside the chest strap. Chances of coming undone by accident - v. low. Tried to draw this in paint but looked shit so just imagine.

Again - depends where you are but as I am responsible for my kit I am happy with it this way.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[bmcd308 0]

>>How common is this?<<

Not uncommon. I only have 280 jumps, and I have pointed out two. Ask people you trust to check your gear. Unobtrusively check the gear of those around you.

Point out things that look odd to you, maybe even by asking a question about it. As long as it is done right, you won't offend anyone, and you might learn something. For example, if you point out that someone has the RSL shackle unfastened, they might explain to you that since they have a camera they are choosing not to use an RSL. Something learned and no harm done. They also might say, "Sh!t. I can't believe I missed that. Thanks."

Brent

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

[gerryfuss 0]

I've caught a chest strap before. A member of my DZ noticed his undone in ff and went onto his back and did it up before deploying. I've also personnaly forgot to turn on my Cypres and it just so happens that the DZ owner was on that load and happened to ask me if I had turned it on . I stared back at him for a sec then said "No, I didn't". The plane hadn't started to take off yet so I loosened my gear and he turned it on for me. I didn't need the cypres for that particular jump but thats really not the point. I could have. Bottom line is that it's good to double check yourself and check others and no one will think bad of you if your being safety conscientious. You may very well save someones life.

[skymama 37]

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How many people make a concious check of those around them on every lift?

I caught someone's reserve flap open on Saturday. Since we've had such an uproar on the forums about people not wanting their rigs touched without permission, I made sure to tap him on the shoulder to tell him about it and then I fixed it. He was most appreciative.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[WeakMindedFool 0]

I did it! Right off AFF and doing solos. I was in the process of asking one of my instructors for a gear check. He was talking to another student when he looked at me, stopped in mid sentence and asked, "Are you ready to skydive?" I said "Yes" He grabbed onto my chest strap and pulled...It took twice but the thing came loose. What he may have lacked in "tact" he made up for by illustrating what could and probably would of happened on deployment. Needless to say now I gear check constantly. I wake up at night and look over at my rig and think, "gear check". I really don't want to die lying "next" to my perfectly good rig...Yes I got him a case of beer.

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[labrys 0]

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I also dont like the fact that some people jump rigs with so much excess chest strap that they fold it back and forth over the buckle, thus making it real hard to spot.

I sort of agree... I agree that it's harder to spot a misrouting when the strap is folded back over the buckle. What I'm not sure I agree with is that this is always done because there is excess strap.

My rig's chest strap doesn't have a "foldback" at the end of the strap and the manufacturer's (Javelin) recommendation is to fold the strap back over the buckle and into the keeper. That does make the routing harder to see. I keep that in mind when I see someone else wearing a rig like mine.

But I don't do it because I have excess strap.

Owned by Remi #?

[DBCOOPER 5]

I've caught three in 570 jumps. One was mine.I've questioned people if that was the way their stuff usually was and nobody ever had a problem with me asking.

Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon

If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea.

[swoosh 0]

I am a firm believer in Check, Check, and reCheck. Learned this lesson on my 98th jump, when, after being checked both on the ground and in the air I went to dump at about 3k to find my hacky still tucked into the sleave. Dug it out, all was well, but learned a valuable lesson. I now do a six point check, in this order......Cutaway, Reserve, Leg strap, Leg strap, Chest, Hacky. Much better to overCheck than to underCheck just once.

The Sky is NOT the Limit, the Dirt Is!!

[Synapse 0]

This is totally a newbie question here, but since thats what I am, I guess thats acceptable.

What exactly would happen if ones chest strap was either not fastened at all or if it was pulled out of the buckle during deployment?

-syn

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty
nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

[swoosh 0]

Dude, picture a nice 'belly to earth' arch, reach back to throw, your rig stops and you fall out. NOT NICE.

The Sky is NOT the Limit, the Dirt Is!!

[masher 1]

You can fall out.

If you notice it undone in freefall, you can dump "safely". All you have to do (aren't those words magic?)(This was read here at dz.c) is reach across and grip the right MLW with your left hand as you go into pull (keep symmetric) and after you dump out your PC, bring your right hand in to grip your left MLW. Then, hopefully, you won't fall out. or have a mal. Then do up your chest strap.

--This post has been brought to you by a non-instructor, 180 jump wonder. Please take with a grain of salt, and consult your instructor as soon as possible--

--
Arching is overrated - Marlies

[Synapse 0]

Thanks for the info guys. I of course assumed that falling out of the rig was what would be the ultimate result, but didn't know if anyone had some more info or possibly a story of some dude hanging by his legs or something. I think if I ever found myself in that situation I'd try to hook that bad boy while I was flying on my back and give that MLW grab a try on top of it just to make sure... altitude permitting.
-syn

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty
nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

[nbblood 0]

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How often do these 'near misses' occur?

Unfortunately they happen more often than they should. I only have 230ish jumps and I have 3 chest strap saves, a PC nearly out of BOC (would've almost certainly been a premature) save, and ......yes......1 did not wear rig at all save. Unbelievable, the last one. I'm sure somebody would've noticed if I hadn't, but you never know. I also carry a spare pair of goggles and have given them and my wrist altimeter a couple times to jumpers that forgot. I too, am always checking whether people realize it or not. And, I must confess, I've forgotten goggles and altimeter a time or two myself (hence the extra pair in the pocket of my jumpsuits). Never something like a chest strap, though. I'd never feel dimed out by somebody wanting to check me out. I always check myself out, but it never hurts to double-check.

Blues.
Nathan

Blues,
Nathan

If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute.

[Synapse 0]

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I'd never feel dimed out by somebody wanting to check me out. I always check myself out, but it never hurts to double-check.

Ditto. If anyone EVER wants to check my gear, feel free. Hell even if I'm not jumping... if my rig is just sitting on the bench next to me at the dz and you want to check it well then have at it. Nothing about trying to save my life is going to offend me.
Maybe its just the DZ I jump at, but almost everyone there gets a check from someone else on the plane before exit and sometimes a check on the ground before boarding. Most of the time this is just a main pin check and a quick look at the PC handle, but since my jumpsuit and rig screams student they usually add a reserve pin, cypress, and sometimes harness check when checking me. So far no one has caught anything life threatening, but I still welcome the checks because they might just save me one day.

-syn

They who can give up essential liberty to obtain
a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty
nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

[rdesilets 0]

Not to change the subject, but to expand on your concept of gear checks:

Last fall at our DZ a person was getting on the plane (super otter) and did not have a rig on. In all the hustle and bustle they simply forgot to put their rig on and someone pointed it out to the LO (Load Organizer). They were actually climbing up the ladder to get in the otter..

Holy crap..

Edited to fix spelling error

[Pia 0]

I've noticed 2 chest straps looped around the outside of the tension bar and through the bungy

**Those who refuse to live and learn simply exist**

[3ringheathen 0]

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You can fall out.

If you notice it undone in freefall, you can dump "safely". All you have to do (aren't those words magic?)(This was read here at dz.c) is reach across and grip the right MLW with your left hand as you go into pull (keep symmetric) and after you dump out your PC, bring your right hand in to grip your left MLW. Then, hopefully, you won't fall out.

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If you simply put yourself in a head high position prior to deployment, opening force should be channeled through your leg straps, and the loose chest strap won't be much of a concern.

Of course, I'd prefer not to test either method.
It's far easier to incorporate multiple gear checks into your routine.

Ideally, you should be ready to exit the plane before you even get on board. I generally give myself and those around me at least a visual check upon boarding, after undoing seatbelts, and just prior to jump run.

If something doesn't look right, ask. I've never been offended or offended anyone by doing so.
-Josh

If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me*
*Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams.

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[winsor 236]

A) I never undo any straps. I loosen them to take the rig off, and tighten them when I put it on.

B) I always request that everyone on the load perform a final gear check two minutes before jumprun.

I have had a number of improperly attached chest straps and inaccessible handles show up when I asked people to check their gear. I really don't give a rat's ass if the truly hip people roll their eyes when I ask them to do so (actually, most don't).

I know of too many cases where people were maimed or killed, and would have been just fine if they had performed that final check. Thus, I request that people do so every time I'm on a load.

Actually, if Orly King is on the load he usually beats me to it and gives his standard safety briefing. Since his is more elaborate than is mine, I'm more than happy to defer.

Sometimes being reminded of what you already know right before the jump can make the difference between pulling it off and being hosed. Having others look out for me has saved my ass on more than one occasion.


Blue skies,

Winsor