The "First Person Down" Rule

[Fast 0]

I think that a lot of the problems stem from how much attention you can pay to who is landing when.

There is a lot to be looking out for under canopy be it the first man down or others flying around. When you compound that with situations that occur at many smaller DZ where swoopers and everyone else are somewhat mixed it becomes hard to determine what is the right way to land. Who is the first one down? Did everyone else see the "right" first man down? Ok now someone has landed what should my pattern be? Where am I in the pattern? Someone just landed wrong is everyone else going to do that too because they didn't see what the FMD did? Or maybe I have to start my pattern before the FMD is on the ground, well where to set up, is he gonna land that way or turn some? The point I am making is there is a ton of variables in the FMD situation and it leads to lots of confusion. You have to be evaluating all this stuff and still accomplish whatever goals you have set for the canopy flight on every jump. Should the average skydiver be able to do this? Yes, but I worry more about the one guy that fucks up and kills me.

I personally prefer picking a direction just before boarding the plane rather than the FMD situation. Everyone knows before the plane is even off the ground what the pattern will be. Just like a day with enough wind to make the windsock usefull. If the wind is low enough that there is some question about what the landing direction is going to be, everyone on the load should be able to handle the cross or downwind landing if it shifts some.

I don't know, I am capable of doing it but the ability of everyone around me to follow the FMD makes me a little more concerned.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I jump a larger canopy and spend a lot of time riding brakes, frequently landing long after most everyone else has touched down. If the DZ is dictating the landing direction (presumeably as a measure to avoid collisions), would it be a big deal for me to land in the opposite direction, in the absence of traffic, if the winds should change?

While visiting Perris I was on a load where nearly every person was flagged for a wrong way landing as apparently the first person landed on the grass downwind. I apparently was exempted for being the last down, and one other guy landed on the dirt next to the grass, the proper proceedure if you want to stick to your direction.

But it seemed like a no win situation - I was in the last group out the door and since I pulled at 4k, I turn off jump run as Perris requests. I'm pretty sure that first person was down before I got a look at the LZ and all I saw was a stream of people landing the "wrong" way. Certainly at that point nothing would have been gained by landing the "right" way. At that point the safer answer looks to be go with the flow and if you're written up, so be it. ??

[Shark 0]

Works at Elsinore, too. FPD lands into the wind to set the pattern. If you do not agree with this directions land at one of the alternate areas. There are 3 of them. If in a no-wind condition, land towards the lake.

If one continues to violate these safety procedures they will not be skydiving there long or will be restricted to the student landing area.

If you want to swoop, take advantage of our high-performance landing area. There, anything goes.

[pilotdave 0]

From what I'm reading here, it sounds like following the first person down works well at big DZs with alternate landing areas. Don't like the pattern set by the first guy, land somewhere else. See people landing in multiple directions, land somewhere else. Want to avoid swoopers, land somewhere else.

Problem is, that philosophy doesn't work at smaller DZs. Where I jump, for example, the landing area is pretty small, and narrow. There is no designated alternate landing area. When the winds are light, we land either to the north or to the south. We pick a direction before boarding (super otter... lots of canopy traffic), but someone will always chase the windsock no matter how light the winds are. And since we prefer north or south, that often means shifting the landing direction 180 degrees.

Only outs are some small fields, back yards, and the grass next to the runway (where the otter lands and student helicopter pilots learn to hover...no thanks). Nothing I'd prefer over a downwind landing. But when an entire otter load is set up to land one way, except for one person who happens to be lowest, it can work best to let him land the wrong way (probably a swooper that'll be setting his brakes by the time the last jumpers land) and let the rest of the load land the right way. I've been yelled at for landing in the same direction as the first guy down and for landing in the other direction. It just doesn't work well. I'd much prefer a big arrow or tetrahedron, set before we get on the plane, and only moved if the wind picks up enough to warrant it.

It just isn't always possible to follow the first person down. When you are flying a velocity or something, you have many more options than when you're flying a lightly loaded canopy. On a long spot, I can't always adjust my pattern once I've commited to a plan. There just isn't enough altitude to turn around sometimes. And with no alternate landing area, people WILL land in different directions when someone changes the predetermined landing direction. I think we need a new beer rule... anyone that changes the landing direction when it isn't necessary should owe a case.

Dave

[purplened 0]

Bill Wrote:
"Yet having them do exactly the same thing due to variable winds is better? The "first canopy down sets landing direction" works if everyone pays attention. "Land into the wind" never works when winds are shifting - such a plan virtually guarantees people crossing on landing. "

I totally agree, but what I don't know is I have seen (on more than one occasion) 2 people doing high performance landings opposite of each other, landing almost simultaneously, or within seconds of each other. SO now who do I follow? When alternate landing areas present themselves (such as Eloy) I will land out/away/alternate, but sometimes I can't. So now I need to get set up for landing, and who do I choose to follow in a situation like that? Especially when jumper # 3 and 4 do the same as #1 and #2 and there is no real alternate landing area?

And do places like Perris and Eloy have a rule that there are no 180/360/540 landings allowed on certain occasions to prevent situations like this potentially happening?

Safety is key, and I will do a downwind landing if i have to, but at the same time, how do we prevent the first person down from doing it on purpose, which affects the entire load?

Thanks!
Ned

I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

[billvon 2,991]

>how do we prevent the first person down from doing it on purpose . . . .

The easy answer is to warn him and ground him if he does it again. Doing a downwind landing at a DZ with "first person down" rules is at least as dangerous as doing a downwind landing into a crowded landing area.

In most cases, the problems arise on very light wind days. At Perris, for example, the danger area is winds from the south at say 3kts - not enough to move the windsocks much but enough to be perceptible. Do you use the wind blades, or the default "zero or light wind" direction? First person down doesn't solve this problem completely, because two people may land at the same time in opposite directions, but it at least gives you a clue. At a DZ without a first-person-down rule, though, every single landing could be in a different direction - and that seems worse.

[skybill 22]

Hi Breeze,
I prefer the last person down rule myself. Me and my Stilleto 190 usually out float all the postage stamps on the load and after I watch all of them crash, I have a good fix on wind direction and turbulance and I adjust my landing accordingly. By that time, enough time has elapsed that I am the "First Person Down!!!" My landings are nice and conservative. If you don't believe me, then just ask Kate!!!

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out