freakflyer9999 1 #1 September 12, 2004 Because he knew that I was a pilot and had a Third Class Medical, a Tandem Rating Candidate, during a break in the Tandem course asked me whether or not they did drug testing as part of the Medical that is required to have a Tandem rating. My initial response was I don't remember but the FAA publishes their guidelines and procedures for everyone. Later that week after some soul searching I contacted the DZO and the Course Instructor. The DZO followed up with the individual and told me that his story was that he doesn't do drugs often, but does occasionally and was worried that a test might show positive for trace amounts even though he hadn't done anything recently. He also assured the DZO that he doesn't jump while impaired. What would you do? Leave it up to the DZO? Inform the FAA? or something in between. If his story is right and he really doesn't jump impaired then I feel comfortable leaving it in the DZO's hands. I'd really hate to see him bounce and cause the DZ major legal problems just because he smoked a joint 3 days ago, but that's the DZO's decision. On the other hand, I'd never be able to forgive myself if he bounced with an innocent tandem passenger while impaired and I thought that I could have done something to stop it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpinfarmer 0 #2 September 12, 2004 Your in a tough position and one I've been in before as well. I don't like sniching on others so I don't unless I think there is a real danger to others. It seems there's a fair amount of drug use around most DZs. I don't like it but who am I to judge, I just pass when it's offered to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 September 12, 2004 If your Tandem Master candidate is worried about the FAA medical, he shouldn't be. The FAA 3rd Class Medical does include a urine sample, but it's not tested for illegal drugs (that I was ever aware of). http://www.leftseat.com/AME/health4pilots/default.htm The sampling procedures for urine sample drug testing is a bit more secure. Some DZs require drug testing of their staff, some do not. If the DZ does require drug testing, it will be part of the employment screening process and then perhaps randomly thereafter.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #4 September 12, 2004 You Americans are so paranoid about drugs! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #5 September 12, 2004 I'm not paranoid at all. I was a flight instructor and have had quite a few FAA medical exams, so, I'm kinda familiar with what they do and don't include. I also jump at a drop zone that does test its staff.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #6 September 12, 2004 QuoteI also jump at a drop zone that does test its staff. which really changes nothing... lol....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crwmike 0 #7 September 12, 2004 QuoteBecause he knew that I was a pilot and had a Third Class Medical, a Tandem Rating Candidate, during a break in the Tandem course asked me whether or not they did drug testing as part of the Medical that is required to have a Tandem rating. My initial response was I don't remember but the FAA publishes their guidelines and procedures for everyone. Later that week after some soul searching I contacted the DZO and the Course Instructor. The DZO followed up with the individual and told me that his story was that he doesn't do drugs often, but does occasionally and was worried that a test might show positive for trace amounts even though he hadn't done anything recently. He also assured the DZO that he doesn't jump while impaired. What would you do? Leave it up to the DZO? Inform the FAA? or something in between. If his story is right and he really doesn't jump impaired then I feel comfortable leaving it in the DZO's hands. I'd really hate to see him bounce and cause the DZ major legal problems just because he smoked a joint 3 days ago, but that's the DZO's decision. On the other hand, I'd never be able to forgive myself if he bounced with an innocent tandem passenger while impaired and I thought that I could have done something to stop it. Let me see if I got this. Guy asks you whether or not drug testing was included in the medical and after searching your soul you plant the seeds of suspicion and doubt in the minds of at least two people. Not happy with your course of potential destruction thus far, you now seek advice about further reporting him to a govt agency? Is that about it? Damn dude! Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #8 September 12, 2004 Well, no matter how occasional it is, if a fatality or serious injury with a lawsuit happens, then a toxology report will most likely be run. Especially in the case of a fatality. So if you had done drugs fairly recently or were still a bit rough from the beer the night before, well it'll probably show up and wouldn't help out too much in a lawsuit. --"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakflyer9999 1 #9 September 12, 2004 Quote Let me see if I got this. Guy asks you whether or not drug testing was included in the medical and after searching your soul you plant the seeds of suspicion and doubt in the minds of at least two people. Not happy with your course of potential destruction thus far, you now seek advice about further reporting him to a govt agency? Is that about it? Damn dude! Michael Yes. That's about it. The original conversation was a little more than a brief question. It lead me to believe that the jumper wasn't just an occasional drug user. I myself have used drugs in the past and it wasn't just occasionally either. When the DZO spoke to him about it, he did confirm that he was a drug user, though he did claim that it is only occasional. If he were just another jumper at the DZ, I wouldn't give a rat's ass what he did as long as he didn't kill me because of it. But this guy is going for a Tandem rating. Tandems are not just another skydive. They require that you be ready and able to react to emergency situations quickly and properly. Tandem masters are also directly responsible for the life of their passenger. I for one don't think that impairment by drugs or alchohol should be tolerated in this particular situation. Would you want to know that the Tandem Master who is jumping with your sister or your mom or your spouse or significant other was a drug user? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #10 September 12, 2004 QuoteI'm not paranoid at all. I was a flight instructor and have had quite a few FAA medical exams, so, I'm kinda familiar with what they do and don't include. I also jump at a drop zone that does test its staff. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My contempt for Perris's drug testing policy is based on first-hand experience. Four years after I quit doing any recreational drugs, I scored a false positive. Ironically, back in the days when I got drunk ever night and smoked pot every weekend, no-one asked me to pee in a bottle. Let's face it, this sport attracts thrill-seekers and addictive type personalities. I have worked with dozens of chronic "users." They were all hard-working professionals, who rarely let their hangovers interfere with their work. If you eliminated all the druggies and drunks, most DZs would be severely short-staffed. Drug testing is just a modern-day American witch hunt! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crotalus01 0 #11 September 12, 2004 QuoteQuote Would you want to know that the Tandem Master who is jumping with your sister or your mom or your spouse or significant other was a drug user? i really wouldnt care as long as he wasnt on drugs or suffering the aftereffects when he was doing the tandem. and as long as he was good. does it bother anyone that most tandem masters drink? whats the difference as long as hes not doing tandems with a massive hangover? As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #12 September 12, 2004 Quote...Perris's drug testing policy... What do they do whan a Dutch jumper shows up looking for a staff position? Not hire him because he shows that he smoked a legal substance last week at home?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skymedic 0 #13 September 12, 2004 Quotelegal substance Legal does not equal safe....as alchohol is legal...but not safe to go drinking and jumping Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TomAiello 26 #14 September 12, 2004 Sure. But I'm not saying that those folks will skydive drunk or stoned. Some skydivers like to drink beer when they're not jumping. We don't test them for alchohol abuse and refuse to hire them. Why should we be testing to see if someone smoked out a week ago? In either case, the impact on their jumping is very minimal. I just don't think it's fair to penalize (i.e. not hire) someone who tests positive because they (legally) smoked pot weeks ago.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #15 September 13, 2004 Quote If you eliminated all the druggies and drunks, most DZs industries including the military would be severely short-staffed. Drug testing is just a modern-day American witch hunt! fixed your statement for you God forbid we base our suspicions and hold off accusations until performance gives reason...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites argon 0 #16 September 13, 2004 FYI, the 3rd class medical has a urine test which only purpose is to check for abnormal amounts of chemicals(its just a quick dip stick) for the prupose of determining if the applicant has diabetes. Nothing more,nothing less. But be aware if you admit to have taken or have taken any anti-depressant drugs including the SSRI class such as Prozac,Zoloft,Paxil,Welutrin etc. you WILL ABSOLUTELY BE DENIED. The vision test is not critical UNLESS they use the cards with the colored dots. If you are at all color blind to any degree you will not be certified for night flight. the regs say you must recognize aviation colors : red,white,green. Drug test are not part of the exam----unfortunately there are plenty of other ways to get denied.*********** Freedom isn't free. Don't forget: Mother Earth is waiting for you--there is a debt you have to pay...... POPS #9329 Commercial Pilot,Instrument MEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites youngin17 0 #17 September 13, 2004 KENNY WTF??!?!?! The "tandem master candidate" in question is my best friend. I know him like the back of my hand. I will not jump with someone who is impaired and me and "tandem boy" have made at least 300 freefly jumps together and he could not be any safer. There are a few problems I have with this discussion. A. What is your deal? I mean why are you gonna go post something on the internet about something thats no business of yours. He asked if they did a drug test and you are gonna go around making assumptions and going over his head with "concerns". Thats crap. B. Have you ever seen him make an unsafe jump or jump impaired? I will put all the money I have on the fact that you haven't. If he wants to smoke or drink, that is his FREE choice. He doesn't do it impaired so it isn't a problem. C. You considered going to the FAA. Are you freaking kidding me!?!? This could not only jeopordize his chances of becoming a SAFE tandem master, but also the dropzones credibiilty. I can't even freaking believe this. These people and dropzone have been nothing but nice to you and this is the way you can repay them. You suck. You need to think before you act and stop jackin with peoples credibility. Dude YOU SUCK!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #18 September 13, 2004 Quote If he wants to smoke or drink, that is his FREE choice. He doesn't do it impaired so it isn't a problem. he doesnt drink or smoke while impaired? isnt the point in drinking or smoking to become 'impaired'? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Eiley 0 #19 September 13, 2004 Done a bit of soul searching myself... I'm going to my DZ this weekend to insist that they drug test every person who gets in the plane every single time. I want to know whether Freddy Freeflyer had a joint a month ago or whether Bertha Bellyflyer drank to the point of inebriation last night. I will demand that any cigarette-smoking instructors are taken off the roster immediately. Everybody knows smokers are more prone to hypoxia. This could possibly one day lead to a dangerous situation. We must act immediately to ensure that there is never an accident caused by a jumper who may possibly have become slightly hypoxic as a result of his dirty little habit. While I'm at it, I'm going to ensure no diabetics jump at my DZ. I've heard they faint. That's an accident just waiting to happen. Of course, I'll be looking around for any overweight instructors or camera flyers. Overweight people tend to have more heart attacks. Imagine how I would feel knowing I could have saved someone's life by simply stopping them from getting on the plane until they had shed those excess pounds! I could never forgive myself. Oh, I know that I could make a couple of people angry by standing at the door and demanding everybody weigh in... but a true friend will of course understand that by telling them they are fat I may be saving theirs and other people's lives. If not, well they were never a true friend, were they? Of course, anybody who doesn't have 20/20 vision will be precluded from jumping in the vicinity of another person - imagine they lost their contact lenses - that's just BEGGING for a midair collision! Males, especially those between 18-25, should all have regular psychological screenings. Studies have shown that this group is most at-risk of suicide. In fact, it may just be easier to ban 18-25 yo males from jumping at all to ensure we don't have to worry about them suddenly deciding to top themselves using one of our planes to do the job. I hope your DZ has put safety procedures for all of the above POTENTIALLY DEADLY SITUATIONS. All are obviously easily avoidable. You may not wind up with the most popular DZ, but boy-oh-boy will it be the SAFEST! nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites youngin17 0 #20 September 13, 2004 i said he doesn't do it while hes skydiving... what are you like 4? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites youngin17 0 #21 September 13, 2004 you rock! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #22 September 13, 2004 no that is not what he said, it might be what he meant, but its not what he said... do you have issues with subject verb agreement?____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites youngin17 0 #23 September 13, 2004 dude....you need to put a new pair of tape between your glasses.....i mean why don't you start talking in binary or something..WOW btw...i said he doesn't do it impaired...it as in skydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Layton 0 #24 September 13, 2004 a hangover doesnt interfere with work.damn what kind of hangover are we talking about here.course im one of them step people but when i was using my hangovers were devestating.and it affected everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zenister 0 #25 September 13, 2004 lol if your going to rant at least rant intelligently.. again, for the foaming illiterates out there you might have MEANT that, and we can infer your real meaning from the rest of the post, but that is not what the last two sentences of your paragraph actually say. some language skills would help. Why dont you turn a paper with such poor subject verb agreements into your academy professors, I'm sure they will straighten you out. Last time I checked clarity and accuracy were important writing skills... even for cadets...most people get the and realize its a joke, but I forget they havent issued you a sense of humor yet... but thats ok.. write a few reports like that.. everyone who reads them will laugh at you too... edit to fix preposition... now I understand why your raving... lol....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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TomAiello 26 #12 September 12, 2004 Quote...Perris's drug testing policy... What do they do whan a Dutch jumper shows up looking for a staff position? Not hire him because he shows that he smoked a legal substance last week at home?-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #13 September 12, 2004 Quotelegal substance Legal does not equal safe....as alchohol is legal...but not safe to go drinking and jumping Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TomAiello 26 #14 September 12, 2004 Sure. But I'm not saying that those folks will skydive drunk or stoned. Some skydivers like to drink beer when they're not jumping. We don't test them for alchohol abuse and refuse to hire them. Why should we be testing to see if someone smoked out a week ago? In either case, the impact on their jumping is very minimal. I just don't think it's fair to penalize (i.e. not hire) someone who tests positive because they (legally) smoked pot weeks ago.-- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #15 September 13, 2004 Quote If you eliminated all the druggies and drunks, most DZs industries including the military would be severely short-staffed. Drug testing is just a modern-day American witch hunt! fixed your statement for you God forbid we base our suspicions and hold off accusations until performance gives reason...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
argon 0 #16 September 13, 2004 FYI, the 3rd class medical has a urine test which only purpose is to check for abnormal amounts of chemicals(its just a quick dip stick) for the prupose of determining if the applicant has diabetes. Nothing more,nothing less. But be aware if you admit to have taken or have taken any anti-depressant drugs including the SSRI class such as Prozac,Zoloft,Paxil,Welutrin etc. you WILL ABSOLUTELY BE DENIED. The vision test is not critical UNLESS they use the cards with the colored dots. If you are at all color blind to any degree you will not be certified for night flight. the regs say you must recognize aviation colors : red,white,green. Drug test are not part of the exam----unfortunately there are plenty of other ways to get denied.*********** Freedom isn't free. Don't forget: Mother Earth is waiting for you--there is a debt you have to pay...... POPS #9329 Commercial Pilot,Instrument MEL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
youngin17 0 #17 September 13, 2004 KENNY WTF??!?!?! The "tandem master candidate" in question is my best friend. I know him like the back of my hand. I will not jump with someone who is impaired and me and "tandem boy" have made at least 300 freefly jumps together and he could not be any safer. There are a few problems I have with this discussion. A. What is your deal? I mean why are you gonna go post something on the internet about something thats no business of yours. He asked if they did a drug test and you are gonna go around making assumptions and going over his head with "concerns". Thats crap. B. Have you ever seen him make an unsafe jump or jump impaired? I will put all the money I have on the fact that you haven't. If he wants to smoke or drink, that is his FREE choice. He doesn't do it impaired so it isn't a problem. C. You considered going to the FAA. Are you freaking kidding me!?!? This could not only jeopordize his chances of becoming a SAFE tandem master, but also the dropzones credibiilty. I can't even freaking believe this. These people and dropzone have been nothing but nice to you and this is the way you can repay them. You suck. You need to think before you act and stop jackin with peoples credibility. Dude YOU SUCK!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #18 September 13, 2004 Quote If he wants to smoke or drink, that is his FREE choice. He doesn't do it impaired so it isn't a problem. he doesnt drink or smoke while impaired? isnt the point in drinking or smoking to become 'impaired'? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eiley 0 #19 September 13, 2004 Done a bit of soul searching myself... I'm going to my DZ this weekend to insist that they drug test every person who gets in the plane every single time. I want to know whether Freddy Freeflyer had a joint a month ago or whether Bertha Bellyflyer drank to the point of inebriation last night. I will demand that any cigarette-smoking instructors are taken off the roster immediately. Everybody knows smokers are more prone to hypoxia. This could possibly one day lead to a dangerous situation. We must act immediately to ensure that there is never an accident caused by a jumper who may possibly have become slightly hypoxic as a result of his dirty little habit. While I'm at it, I'm going to ensure no diabetics jump at my DZ. I've heard they faint. That's an accident just waiting to happen. Of course, I'll be looking around for any overweight instructors or camera flyers. Overweight people tend to have more heart attacks. Imagine how I would feel knowing I could have saved someone's life by simply stopping them from getting on the plane until they had shed those excess pounds! I could never forgive myself. Oh, I know that I could make a couple of people angry by standing at the door and demanding everybody weigh in... but a true friend will of course understand that by telling them they are fat I may be saving theirs and other people's lives. If not, well they were never a true friend, were they? Of course, anybody who doesn't have 20/20 vision will be precluded from jumping in the vicinity of another person - imagine they lost their contact lenses - that's just BEGGING for a midair collision! Males, especially those between 18-25, should all have regular psychological screenings. Studies have shown that this group is most at-risk of suicide. In fact, it may just be easier to ban 18-25 yo males from jumping at all to ensure we don't have to worry about them suddenly deciding to top themselves using one of our planes to do the job. I hope your DZ has put safety procedures for all of the above POTENTIALLY DEADLY SITUATIONS. All are obviously easily avoidable. You may not wind up with the most popular DZ, but boy-oh-boy will it be the SAFEST! nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
youngin17 0 #20 September 13, 2004 i said he doesn't do it while hes skydiving... what are you like 4? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #22 September 13, 2004 no that is not what he said, it might be what he meant, but its not what he said... do you have issues with subject verb agreement?____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
youngin17 0 #23 September 13, 2004 dude....you need to put a new pair of tape between your glasses.....i mean why don't you start talking in binary or something..WOW btw...i said he doesn't do it impaired...it as in skydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Layton 0 #24 September 13, 2004 a hangover doesnt interfere with work.damn what kind of hangover are we talking about here.course im one of them step people but when i was using my hangovers were devestating.and it affected everything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #25 September 13, 2004 lol if your going to rant at least rant intelligently.. again, for the foaming illiterates out there you might have MEANT that, and we can infer your real meaning from the rest of the post, but that is not what the last two sentences of your paragraph actually say. some language skills would help. Why dont you turn a paper with such poor subject verb agreements into your academy professors, I'm sure they will straighten you out. Last time I checked clarity and accuracy were important writing skills... even for cadets...most people get the and realize its a joke, but I forget they havent issued you a sense of humor yet... but thats ok.. write a few reports like that.. everyone who reads them will laugh at you too... edit to fix preposition... now I understand why your raving... lol....____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
