shunkka 0 #1 February 17, 2004 how dangerous can be for a girl (1,62 cm - 45 kg) jumping a HUUGE canopy (a MANTA 290) it`s not 2 HUUGE? can be 2 huuge be dangerous? she jump that`s canopy because that`s what exist on the DZ ------------------------- "jump, have fun, pull" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #2 February 17, 2004 that brings us to a wingload of approx 0.42 ... which is not much. Lets hope the wind doesn't pick up while she is flying. And teach her how to fly thermals, she might beat a cross country flight record.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velo90 0 #3 February 17, 2004 Quotethat brings us to a wingload of approx 0.42 She must me doing S/L and not AFF. Otherwise the instructors would have loaded her up with lead to get a half decent fall rate and then she is over the 0.42 I seen people land 400 sqft canopies with no problem. Like after the Tandem master unhooked me at 5000 ft Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #4 February 17, 2004 ***the instructors would have loaded her up with lead to get a half decent fall rate ------------------------------------------------------ I'm glad those instructors were not teaching my ex how to skydive. She weighs 105 lbs, and the JM's adjusted themsleves to fall with her, not the other way around. Being a student is hard enough as it is, putting lead on a little girl who is already wearing a huge rig is retarded. To answer the original poster, there's nothing 'wrong' with that wingloading, but it will limit the winds you can jump in, and give you an extra long canopy ride, which isn't always a good thing in a student harness. Your JM's shoud be able to work you down to a 230 ish canopy pretty quickly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #5 February 17, 2004 It depends on winds. In calm winds, large canopies aren't much of a big deal. In stronger winds they won't get any penetration and that can lead to off landings. They're also more affected by turbulence, but this is secondary since the lower speed also mitigates problems from turbulence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #6 February 17, 2004 I've done two jumps on a manta288 loaded at about .45. Winds were pretty light both times so that wasn't a big issue. Problem I had was just unbelievably slow turns and weak flare. I turned final a little too high so I decided to S-turn down. I was literally using full toggle inputs all the way down to maybe 50 feet. It was a little bit scary having so little control. Glad it was my 9th or so jump and not my first, which was on a PD170. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velo90 0 #7 February 17, 2004 QuoteI'm glad those instructors were not teaching my ex how to skydive. She weighs 105 lbs And how tall was she? I was looking at the weight and height. There is nothing wrong with wearing lead. If an AFF instructor decides to add weight to ensure a safe fall rate he should do it. Alas I am not an AFF instructor, but I am sure there are a number out there that would back me up on this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #8 February 17, 2004 I think in most cases they could find instructors who could match the student's fall rate. I don't think wearing lead would be an issue in freefall but I wouldn't want to land with lead at my experience level. I personally fall pretty slow and my JMs have kept up (slowed down) to fall with me. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #9 February 17, 2004 QuoteQuoteI'm glad those instructors were not teaching my ex how to skydive. She weighs 105 lbs And how tall was she? I was looking at the weight and height. There is nothing wrong with wearing lead. If an AFF instructor decides to add weight to ensure a safe fall rate he should do it. Alas I am not an AFF instructor, but I am sure there are a number out there that would back me up on this. Adding lead to a student is an absolute last resort at our dz. If there is no other way to stay with them then put some lead on them, but we've had some really light students and the JM's just dress for success. Haven't had to put lead on a student yet. Student rigs are heavy and uncomfortable enough without throwing weights at them. Judy JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,991 #10 February 17, 2004 >There is nothing wrong with wearing lead. It increases the force on your body during a hard landing and drags you under if you land in water. Not a good thing for first jump students. AFF-I's should have a sufficient range to stay with students using the normal tricks (i.e. skintight student suits, swoop cords, sweatshirts and webbed gloves for the JM.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velo90 0 #11 February 17, 2004 Quotebut I wouldn't want to land with lead at my experience level. When you are jumping a PD mega square feet it does not matter that much if you have 20 lbs of lead with you, at least not if you only weigh 100 lbs. Yes, lead is a last resort, dressing for sucess is the good option. Finding the right instructor for the student is a better option. But surely you cannot compromise saftey just for the sake of a weight vest/belt. Again, I am not an AFF instructor, this is just my intuition speaking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
benny 0 #12 February 17, 2004 QuoteQuotebut I wouldn't want to land with lead at my experience level. When you are jumping a PD mega square feet it does not matter that much if you have 20 lbs of lead with you, at least not if you only weigh 100 lbs. Yes, lead is a last resort, dressing for sucess is the good option. Finding the right instructor for the student is a better option. But surely you cannot compromise saftey just for the sake of a weight vest/belt. Again, I am not an AFF instructor, this is just my intuition speaking. Yeah, I guess in the context of this thread you have a point. I was thinking of my own experiences, my bad. Never go to a DZ strip show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velo90 0 #13 February 17, 2004 QuoteIt increases the force on your body during a hard landing Good point, I did not think of that. Quoteand drags you under if you land in water. Yep, but if there is a chance of landing in water they should have a life vest, if not, the point is mute. Even so, do your instructors sometimes use wing suits? Also I can see, freefly suit and swoop cords would be enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velo90 0 #14 February 17, 2004 Quoteskintight student suits I can also see the advantage in this when one considers what type of student tends to fall slowly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #15 February 17, 2004 As a newbie I cannot really answer this question, but I see the REAL issue as HOW can they possibly get the harness small enough to stay on her. I had trouble with the harness on the 280 for my first skydive. . .Even on small it was still quite loose. . .And the dang rig is HEAVY. . .it would be nearly 1/3 her weight in rig. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricTheRed 0 #16 February 17, 2004 QuoteWhen you are jumping a PD mega square feet it does not matter that much if you have 20 lbs of lead with you, at least not if you only weigh 100 lbs. I very firmly disagree. Lead can be dangerous, and can lead to much greater injuries on landing, despite the canopy size. A misstep that would only be a stumble without lead can easily be a broken ankle with 20# of lead.illegible usually Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kate1973 0 #17 February 17, 2004 im 126lbs and used to jump 280...seemed to spend my whole ride going abckwards.....even in 8-10mph winds. didnt think that i was in any particular danger, just hasnt helped me with my canopy control much now im starting to downsize. seems im learning from scratch again "Work to live, dont live to work" http://www.valkyrie4way.co.yk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
velo90 0 #18 February 17, 2004 QuoteI very firmly disagree. Lead can be dangerous, and can lead to much greater injuries on landing, Yep, you are right, I sort of forgot that students can't land. If you can land then it does not make any difference (on big canopies), unless you land in water. Glug glug glug.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 5 #19 February 17, 2004 As a student,I would get hollered at for taking wraps.That was the only way I could control it.Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #20 February 17, 2004 Yeah I wore weight for my first release dives. AFF got a lot easier when I finally switched to jumping with instructors that could just fall with me. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #21 February 18, 2004 QuoteYeah I wore weight for my first release dives. AFF got a lot easier when I finally switched to jumping with instructors that could just fall with me. Dave Me, too. I weighed about 125 and wore like 10-15lbs of weight once I did my release dives. It is funny cuz one of the tandem masters made fun of the aff instructor, , told him he should learn to fly. I was under a 190sf canopy at the time. Hey, now I can blame my botched student landings on lead. j/k Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #22 February 18, 2004 we once had a girl like this doing a S/L jump at our DZ, and we had to have someone stand behind her when she did her practice arches geared up... the weight of the big student rig would pull her over. she did fine on the jump though. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #23 February 18, 2004 QuoteIt depends on winds. In calm winds, large canopies aren't much of a big deal. In stronger winds they won't get any penetration and that can lead to off landings. They're also more affected by turbulence, but this is secondary since the lower speed also mitigates problems from turbulence. I have a nice video of one of my students on final. Winds were light and variable. Some of that "variable" came through when she was 50 feet off the deck. The right side of her canopy folded under. About three cells worth. All I could do on radio is say, "Keep flying, keep flying, feet and knees together." That was scary to watch. She was on a Manta 288. Her body weight was about 100 - 105. Most drop zones now have smaller gear to accomodate smaller students. It's hard to believe we used to put student varrying from 100 - 230 lbs on the same rig! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #24 February 19, 2004 Quotewebbed gloves for the JM This can make it very hard for the student to interpret some hand signals, so those using them should be sure to go through them with the gloves on to ensure the student understands. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygirl1 1 #25 February 20, 2004 I jumped a manta which if i remember right was a little bigger than yours..........I am 5'5" and 120 pounds.................my landing approaches were iffy depending on winds........and flaring was harder under such a big canopy........I never got hurt but I was always on radio.........and my dzo would be screaming in that radio if the winds got iffy......I also found that turns under canopy were a little harder and not such a quick response.............i have had jumps where i flared too soon and just kept the toggles down and landed safely........I have had elevator rides under the manta...........ohhhhhhh...what a rush........ now i jump a vector 3 220..................and I love it. If you jump with student wind rules you should be fine...........mantas are old canopies, but you need to feel safe...........so sit down with JM and go through your concerns..........and remember to fly your canopy.....do not let it fly you......... good luck and safe landings skygirl1" Mean people SUCK!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
