diablopilot 2 #51 July 29, 2004 I'm not sure what your point is. I agree that a DZO or owner who doesn't follow the rules and regulations for reporting an A/C incident could be indicative of other things going poorly at that DZ. If I hear rumor of an incident, had coroboration of said incident, and then got denials from the DZO, A/C owner, and could find nothing reported to the FAA/NTSB, I might think twice about taking my business there for reason of personal saftey concerns.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #52 July 29, 2004 OK...here goes... A turbine beech westwind was supposed to be in Paxton (north of Rantoul) the week before the WFFC (in case any of us onsite got the urge). This A/C apparently had a belly landing 'several' weeks ago. Paxton DZ contacted last week (or possibly a little sooner, but well after the incident) that the A/C would not be coming. Belly landing was coroborated. Unable to find the incident on the FAA incident site, DiverDriver's assistance was enlisted. He also was unable to find the incident. These are generally listed within a few day, but this has been several weeks. Know a few people at the base of ops for the beech and the belly landing was again coroborated. The A/C owner apparently hustled the plane off to an off airport hangar to fix. A/C owner is also an A&P I believe (can't coroborate). There you have it... Thoughts?----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #53 July 29, 2004 I probably won't get on his plane if I know about it. Any reason forthcoming about mode of failure causeing belly landing? Pilot error? Mechanical failure? Poor maintinence?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #54 July 29, 2004 Who cares? You're not landing with the plane! Seriously, my understanding of the rule is that a gear up landing only needs to be reported if there's "substantial damage" to the aircraft or a serious injury (which is also defined by the NTSB). Many gear up landings do get reported, and most are listed as having minor damage. But I don't know if there's a rule about reporting accidents to the FAA as opposed to the NTSB. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #55 July 29, 2004 QuoteI probably won't get on his plane if I know about it. Any reason forthcoming about mode of failure causeing belly landing? Pilot error? Mechanical failure? Poor maintinence? Agree with your statement. It was on my list of places to visit in the midwest before I moved, but it's be scratched. No information other then it landed with gear up and was spirited away before anyone could see.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #56 July 29, 2004 QuoteAgree with your statement. It was on my list of places to visit in the midwest before I moved, but it's be scratched. No information other then it landed with gear up and was spirited away before anyone could see. You're not missing out on much.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #57 July 29, 2004 QuoteYou're not missing out on much. I keep running into that around here... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilo666 0 #58 July 30, 2004 Ooohhh...sounds like someone is driving the bitter bus, huh Vallerina? If your true motivation is ensuring the safety of your fellow jumpers then kudos to you. Unfortunately, your postings come across as having an ulterior motive or perhaps a personal agenda. Your snide comment about the dz was a dead giveaway. As for your question about our "rights" as jumpers/customers: We do have a Bill of Rights in the US. Its sole purpose is to protect US citizens from actions by the US government. It does not allow citizens the same protections from private companies. It is up to each of us to determine whether to do business with a particular company. McDonalds burned the crap out of an old lady with their 185 degree coffee. Is McDonalds considered dangerous? Does the public have a right to know about this? Skydiving has been fortunate in that the FAA has not tried to overregulate the sport (not yet, at least). USPA has worked hard to ensure that the FAA doesn't attempt to overstep their bounds. Involving the FAA unnecessarily in our sport (in this case, to report an alleged incident, that, according the the previous posts, is not required to be reported to the NTSB) might lead to further attempts to regulate the industry. If you have issues with a business, any business, I think it would be far more effective to deal with them directly rather than handling your problem in the way you have done so. Peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #59 July 30, 2004 hmmm...1 post wonder, no name, no locale, no nada. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilo666 0 #60 July 30, 2004 Chill. Lots of people know exactly who I am and lots of people know why Vallerina is bitter :) (and it has NOTHING to do with dropzone safety) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #61 July 30, 2004 Part of what he said is WAY right though.....---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilo666 0 #62 July 30, 2004 care to elaborate on which part is "way right?" Just curious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #63 July 30, 2004 Nope.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #64 July 30, 2004 QuotePart of what he said is WAY right though..... True, but not always excited when I read a post by a semi new ID and it's their first post and there's no name or anything to back it up. The words lose their steam about the 3rd sylabol.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #65 July 30, 2004 QuoteChill. Lots of people know exactly who I am and lots of people know why Vallerina is bitter :) Uhhh....care to tell me why I'm "bitter"? I'm not. I've jumped there. I think it's alright. But, no, he is not missing out on much. There are plenty of dzs where you wouldn't be missing out on much. Should I list them all out? If you aren't going to be missing out on much by not visiting a dz and there is a long long list of safety concerns, then why bother? I don't know who you are. I don't know what you think my hidden agenda is. I have none. People read far too much into "not missing out on much." (Hell, I would even say that freefliers wouldn't miss out on much if they skipped over my home dz....) Sorry. I was just a little shocked that an event that I heard about almost 4 weeks ago was not brought to the attention of those who deserved to know about it (ie, the dz that wanted to use the plane.) Now, I'm concerned that this may be a common problem throughout dropzones (hiding incidents.) But, keep up with "As the Prop Turns" if it makes it easier for you....There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilo666 0 #66 July 30, 2004 Vallerina, It really is difficult to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person but I will give it my best shot... You have a long history of trashing dropzones for seemingly inane reasons. It is well known that you refuse to jump at certain dropzones in Florida for some "catty" reasons. It is certainly your right to choose where to jump, but logic doesn't seem to play into that decision. meow. Your quote: "...not brought to the attention of those who deserved to know about it..." : someone posted earlier that the dropzone who was to lease the aircraft does, in fact, know well in advance as to enable them to secure another aircraft. Why do you give a sh*t about that other dropzone unless you were going to be there to jump this "dangerous" aircraft? If the aicraft had a "non-reportable incident" as some of the previous postings have indicated, who "deserves to know?" You state, "there is a long list of safety concerns....": Unless you can substantiate this comment about a dropzone you are at serious risk for a libel or slander or defamation action. Vallerina, you don't seem to have a grasp of the reality of our industry. It's tough. I would guess that most dzs are just hanging on after 9/11. Postings such as yours and others bashing dzs for a personal agenda, whatever that may be, aren't helpful to any of us. Consolidation in any industry is detrimental to the consumer. Decreased competition generally leads to higher prices for the customer. If someone is doing something dangerous, by all means, address the issue. If you are sniping, think twice before you open you mouth about it. As for the bitter comment: 2 hints: 1. Hell hath no fury.... 2. weren't you recently dumped by one of this dz's regular jumpers Hmmm...the dz was perfectly safe for you to jump at until your boyfriend thought he "wasn't missing out on much" without you. If you are truly concerned about safety issues in our industry, perhaps you should apply for a job with the FAA and add something positive to our industry. (I sincerely mean this. DZs need good, capable Feds to work with for safety compliance and a jumper would be perfect for the job). I really don't want to come across by being nasty, Vallerina, I just think that you are being unfair to everyone in the dz business with your agenda. Peace. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #67 July 30, 2004 QuoteYou have a long history of trashing dropzones for seemingly inane reasons. If I don't like something, I will say so. I don't call it trashing. If something happened, and I say that it happened, how is that trashing? No dropzone is perfect. We've had problems at my home dz, but I see the owners actively trying to resolve them. They are willing to listen to any comments, and they'll try to accomodate people as best as they can. They realize they can't please everyone all the time, but they do their best in making sure they're dropzone stays safe (nice planes, great student gear, I've seen them talk to certain individuals who were having landing issues...etc etc etc.) QuoteWhy do you give a sh*t about that other dropzone unless you were going to be there to jump this "dangerous" aircraft? I have two really good friends who jump frequently at Paxton. I care what they jump. QuoteYou state, "there is a long list of safety concerns....": Do you really want me to list them out? Quote2. weren't you recently dumped by one of this dz's regular jumpers Not that either one of us wants our business in the public forums, but yeah, it really seems like that's it. (I'm sure if you search the forums, you will find many posts made between the two of us showing that we are still good friends, and we still flirt.) And, no, I didn't jump there much while I was dating him. I didn't really want to. Thanks for trying to make it personl. Please try again. QuoteI just think that you are being unfair to everyone in the dz business with your agenda. Once again, what agenda do I have?????There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kilo666 0 #68 July 30, 2004 As I see it you have two options here: 1. Admit you have an agenda, apologize, then drop it. Or better yet, just drop it, no apology needed. 2. Take the low road, keep up the facade of being "concerned for everyone's safety" and continue on your pilgrimage to save all of us. Option #2 is the easy choice. You save face. You save the world. It's your call, but whining is so unattractive. I will not post again on the matter. I posted only because I believe that what you did was patently unfair to everyone involved. In all fairness, I thought it was important to shed light on the matter. Peace Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #69 July 30, 2004 Quote1. Admit you have an agenda, apologize, then drop it. Or better yet, just drop it, no apology needed. I still don't know what my agenda is! If I knew what it was, then I could apologize for it! I'm still just completely unsure on what that agenda is. Do you want me to post the long list of safety concers?There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #70 July 30, 2004 QuoteIn all fairness, I thought it was important to shed light on the matter. Bawaaahaaa! In all fairness, you implied some agenda that Val has, that hinges on her relationship to WB..... considering we're all sick to hear about his ass, I dont think they are about to claw each other's eyes out. You shed no light. Sheding light would have been to report to incidents.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #71 July 30, 2004 QuoteChill. Lots of people know exactly who I am Well I don't, and I'd like to know. To help me discover the answer to that question, perhaps you should grow a pair and stop cowering behind an anonymous name. Just a friendly suggestion. However, if you don't have courage in your convictions, at least pm me and let me know. Thanks, and have a nice day. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #72 July 30, 2004 Quote You state, "there is a long list of safety concerns....": Unless you can substantiate this comment about a dropzone you are at serious risk for a libel or slander or defamation action. Since you are intent on bringing Val's personal matters into this completely unrelated matter and take all of her statements as the rantings of a madwoman, I'll state here and now that I can substantiate that claim with proof on many accounts. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #73 July 30, 2004 QuoteDo you really want me to list them out? Yes. Don't "hush" them. If they are brought out into the open maybe the cause can be found, or the misunderstandings can be solved.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #74 July 30, 2004 Pushing pause on this thread for now . . . it may be back shortly.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #75 July 30, 2004 It's back to the conversation, folks . . . please don't let this one elevate to personal attacks.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
