Ron 10 #101 February 9, 2004 QuoteThey are designed to be deployed by anyone who pulls on them, whether by accident or on purpose. I saved an experienced jumper at Rantoul this year by pulling her reserve handle while she was spinning on her back. And if it would have killed you I would have said thats too bad, but it happens when a reserve is not deployed as it is designed. QuoteNo, it's not. It fires at 750 feet at a speed of 78mph or greater. That's how it works; those are the parameters it uses. It doesn't care what else you're doing (i.e. deploying or not.) That can injure or kill you. Decide on your own if you want to take the risk. I (usually) accept that risk because I like the additional protection an AAD affords. An AAd is NOT designed for the jumper to pull a main at 1,000 feet. QuoteTwo weeks ago in Thailand a cypres fired when Willy landed close to an air traffic control radar, as another example. Ok, I bet they were not designed to be around high power radar either. Quote>Sure as long as you eliminate the RSL accidents that were not used >as designed....Find some, I'll wait. Racer fatality - jumper did not disconnect RSL before cutting away from a two-canopy-out scenario. If I recall Racer tells you to release it...This jumper did not. He didn't do as it was designed. And he is dead...you are proving my point here Bill."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimDave 0 #102 February 9, 2004 Are you a lawyer that is bored or something? Quote An AAd is NOT designed for the jumper to pull a main at 1,000 feet. You are right. But I think that you are missing the point in this whole discussion. Think about this. If seat belts and airbags save 1000 lives but kill 10 people are they worse than having non at all. The net savings were 990 people. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,070 #103 February 9, 2004 I give up. I can't even figure out what the point is anymore. To everyone else - I recommend all newer jumpers use an RSL until they have at least a cutaway or two under their belts, and then make their own decisions. RSL's save far more people than they injure or kill, and several people die every year in incidents where an RSL could have saved them. Before getting rid of an RSL for the wrong reasons I recommend you read this. Also, check out the skyhook - it's a new sort of RSL that solves some of the problems of older ones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #104 February 10, 2004 QuoteAre you a lawyer that is bored or something? No, but I am taking a critical thinking class. And I play a lawyer on Daytime TV. QuoteYou are right. But I think that you are missing the point in this whole discussion. Think about this. If seat belts and airbags save 1000 lives but kill 10 people are they worse than having non at all. The net savings were 990 people. No, Im not missing the point. The point is that a good number of folks don't think an RSL can kill you. They would be wrong. It can."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #105 February 10, 2004 QuoteTo everyone else - I recommend all newer jumpers use an RSL until they have at least a cutaway or two under their belts, and then make their own decisions agreed, and I have said this before. QuoteRSL's save far more people than they injure or kill, and several people die every year in incidents where an RSL could have saved them Yes, but if they had pulled the other handle they would have been fine as well right? All I want folks to understand is that an RSL is not an excuse for not training...And there are several stories of a people pulling the cutaway an not even going for the reserve...That is device dependency...And thats bad. QuoteBefore getting rid of an RSL for the wrong reasons I recommend you read this. Also, check out the skyhook - it's a new sort of RSL that solves some of the problems of older ones. agreed...But I really wish you would have gone into device dependency and the dangers of it....Such as the myths that an RSL is a perfect device, and that you don't need to pull the reserve if you have an RSL... Both of these I have heard before, and I bet you have as well.. I just don't want folks to buy cool toys to replace training. And like it or not people do. QuoteMay 1991: Klatovy, CSFR - Expert CYPRES: A skydiver with 200 jumps cut away from her malfunction, but did not pull the reserve Quote30. April 1997: USA - Expert CYPRES: Having a line over problem, a jumper cut away his main. Instead of pulling his reserve, he took no further action until his CYPRES activated his reserve QuoteFebruary 2002 Australia: A jumper with 80+ jumps deployed the main canopy, had line- twists and elected to cutaway. The jumper said she gripped both handles of the cutaway pad and reserve handle and pulled the pad. On release she felt the sudden drop and thought she had done something wrong – she thought she had cutaway her reserve, even to the extent of trying to reach up and grab the canopy back. She thought all was lost, freefalling in a stable position towards the ground from 2000 feet. She thought she had no options left and using her words, „I prepared myself to die“ The CYPRES fired and the reserve ride was approx. 7 seconds. Quotepulled cutaway handle at 2200`. Immediately accelerated, also immediately noticed that the RSL was not doing anything, QuoteThe TM pulls the cutaway handle. At this moment, observers on the ground see the disconnected main going off, at approx. 1700 Meters. The RSL is disconnected. The TM reported that he had difficulties to find the reserve handle and to remain stable. QuoteTandem master pulled the Cutaway, and did not attept to pull the reserve thinking that the RSL would pull it. However the RSL had become disconnected. The TM realised this, but could not beat the CYPRES fire. In all of these the jumper just didn't pull the reserve. All of these people lacked the proper training....Some just relied on a CYPRES or RSL. Thats wrong as hell. I like the "Saftey Toys" as I call them, but they are NOT an excuse to not train the correct procedures... Please add. "I don't have to pull my reserve if I have an RSL", and "RSL's are perfect devices" to your little list. I just want folks to have ALL the information, both the good and the bad. And then make an informed choice."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimDave 0 #106 February 12, 2004 Finally, the point Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
