wildchild 0 #1 July 12, 2004 Hopefully not one of those stupid questions!! When doing hop-n-pops, what should be the determining factor in your choice of a poised or dive exit? Is there a significant difference in altitude lost while getting stable? I know that the theory is that a poised exit gets you stable quicker, but I watched someone have an unstable deployment after a poised exit on a hop and pop last weekend, which prompted the question. Or is it whatever you're more comfortable with?____________________________ "If there is doubt, there is no doubt." - Tonto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dougiefresh 0 #2 July 12, 2004 I do diving cuz it's what I'll use if there's ever a real emergency. go go go!Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. --Douglas Adams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
atsaubrey 0 #3 July 12, 2004 I prefer a poised exit...never have done one any other way."GOT LEAD?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #4 July 12, 2004 Think of relative wind. Whether you dive or do poised, the relative wind will always come from the same direction. Therefor you should be able to get stable in the same time. All that's changed is your heading, down the jumprun if you dived, up the jumprun if poised (unless you turn 90 before the pop, recommended).The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #5 July 12, 2004 Most people are more comfortable going out head high, poised, if they need to deploy right away. However, it's not head high or head low to the horizon that matters on a H/P, it's your angle to the relative wind. You can dive out and open right away if you are stable on your dive exits. Notice that I didn't say when you get stable, but that you are stable from the moment you leave the plane. I've used this technique on emergency exits at low altitude, when no one will wait for you to climb out, poise, and go. When you get a few more jumps, you'll get a little more confident in your exits to be comfortable either way. Ask an instructor about the relative wind for a better explanation. I have a hard time explaining it when I can't use my hands to show you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chuckbrown 0 #6 July 12, 2004 I used to love diving out of the door on a hop & pop and dumping on the hill. You're still dumping with the relative wind, only you're on your head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wildchild 0 #7 July 12, 2004 Thanks - that makes sense. I always hated poised exits and prefer the dive exit every time and don't feel uncomfortable at all, but was just wondering why some people insist that if you're getting out low you should do a poised exit. Never made sense to me and I was wondering if there was something major I was missing. The relative wind explanation always worked for me!____________________________ "If there is doubt, there is no doubt." - Tonto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites larsrulz 0 #8 July 12, 2004 QuoteWhen doing hop-n-pops, what should be the determining factor in your choice of a poised or dive exit? Whatever you enjoy and/or feel safest doing. Did a H&P sunday after a FJ student; I dove and did a quick 180 so I was head high for deployment. I generally feel most stable in a dive, but mostly the pilot thought I was landing with the plane and JM, so we were going rather quick and it was safest to dive down. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #9 July 12, 2004 I like the "frog" exit (at least, that's what it was called when it was taught to me. dunno if that's its real name). squat down in the door, hand on the bar, and hop out like a frog (out not up) into the relative wind. been rock solid stable every time I've tried it. easy and fast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,072 #10 July 12, 2004 > but was just wondering why some people insist that if you're getting > out low you should do a poised exit. For lots of people getting out low this makes sense; you open facing the next person to get out, who is the biggest risk of collision. However, for a solo C+P (or for a few people who leave time between exits) it's not a big deal either way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #11 July 12, 2004 Getting out... either works. If I am taking anything more then a 4-5 second delay I'll normally hop out on my back and backfly the exit while looking back into the plane. Quick flip or roll and I'm tossing.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hazarrd 1 #12 July 12, 2004 i prefer the back loop out the door into a 180 turn followed by a triple barrell roll into a headdown. actually, i agree with phree, backflying is usually the way i go. .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SeaKev 0 #13 July 12, 2004 I love door dives....whether from a 182, caravan, or otter. Try a door dive at a higher altitude and see if you're stable out the door. You just need to get your front side facing the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ZegeunerLeben 0 #14 July 12, 2004 Quote When doing hop-n-pops, what should be the determining factor in your choice of a poised or dive exit? >>One should take into consideration the aircraft as well when making this decision. In my experience doing a poised exit from 2800ft from a beech w/ no cut is a bad idea because of the possibility of a tail-strike (seeing it whiz by your head is not fun), so a diving exit w/feet on your butt is a better option in that case (I feel). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites damion75 0 #15 July 12, 2004 Quotei prefer the back loop out the door into a 180 turn followed by a triple barrell roll into a headdown. actually, i agree with phree, backflying is usually the way i go. You jest my friend, but if we are doing H&P for fun then I do like to come out of the door in a sit with my back to the relative wind and backloop before turning 180 so that I don't open towards the last jumper. If it is more serious then I prefer poised as you can see the plane and flick the next guy the bird. By the time you have done that you are far enough away from the plane to safely toss out the PC. I have seen too many videos of people jumping and tossing straight away and almost getting the PC back into the plane...*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Kramer 0 #16 July 12, 2004 QuoteGetting out... either works. If I am taking anything more then a 4-5 second delay I'll normally hop out on my back and backfly the exit while looking back into the plane. Same here. I love hop and pops where you have enough altitude to feel comfortable enough to take a 5-10 second delay~thus having a fun, unstable, sweet-looking exit. Exiting in a hard track can be fun too. The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #17 July 12, 2004 Quote Exiting in a hard track can be fun too. If I am doing a low exit, this is my style. No matter what position I am in the door, I pivot with one foot off the frame back into the prop blast and go right into a track with my hands behind my back. I wait one second for the tail to clear and I pull right from the track. Gotta love that sub term opening of the canopy behind you on the hill!_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites littlestranger 0 #18 July 12, 2004 I did a hop n pop a week or so ago for fun. I tried a poised exit but because the pilot doesn't slow down I was unable to get out the door. The relative wind kept pushing me into the the back of the door frame. I finally threw myself out. Next time I'm diving. Blues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites teason 0 #19 July 13, 2004 I agree! You're head down on the slide and you fell that gentle tugging pulling you forward. By the way, my favorite hop'n'pop position from a cessna is hanging upside down from the step by my legs. Pilot gets all weird about "brake lines" and stuff. Fun! I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dterrick 0 #20 July 13, 2004 When you learned the sport doing low level IAD's it doesn't relly matter in terms of altitude lost because from 3k, I have about 8 seconds before hard deck (2200 AGL). Sometimes I even use it all . As for maximizing canopy time, go poised definitely! You should be able to have snatch force inside of about 3 seconds from a poised exit (a true hop n pop) - costing you maybe 150 ft of altitude... That said, my DZO (who has a very long history in the sport) suggests that dumping during a diveout is, um, rather exciting. Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #21 July 13, 2004 Quote By the way, my favorite hop'n'pop position from a cessna is hanging upside down from the step by my legs. Pilot gets all weird about "brake lines" and stuff. Fun! Get your pilot to go slow... shimmy out on the strut and try and get your legs up past the relative wind and do it from the wing. Pictorial to your left.(That wasn't a hop & pop though) But what's the dif if your at 10 grand or 3? -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Icon134 0 #22 July 14, 2004 I haven't done my H&P for my A yet but I have been practicing my rear floater to get out stable only at 14k so far then do a Practice touch... I don't think it would qualify as a diveout does it qualify as a poised exit... only done it from a twin otter... although I have also jumped from a Porter as well... ScottLivin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Erroll 80 #23 July 14, 2004 Quote I have seen too many videos of people jumping and tossing straight away and almost getting the PC back into the plane You mean like CRW exits, where there are (at the very least) two jumpers exiting in quick succession and dumping very early? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites themitchyone 0 #24 July 14, 2004 QuoteI like the "frog" exit (at least, that's what it was called when it was taught to me. dunno if that's its real name). squat down in the door, hand on the bar, and hop out like a frog (out not up) into the relative wind. been rock solid stable every time I've tried it. easy and fast. This is the position I'm most comfortable and it seems to be a good way to get stable. Hop out like a frog and put your belly to the relative wind. I did my first hop 'n pop this way."If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl's sports such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites andyflylife 0 #25 July 14, 2004 I love trying as many crazy solo exits as possible! So hop & pops are great practice. I find that being relaxed and staying (lookin') cool is the quickest way of getting stable for the pull. Thinking to much about poising it used to worry me a bit when i first got my A license, then i watched 'Swoop 2001' at the Ranch on video...so many groovy exit ideas captured from the strut camera on the Otter!!! Might sound sad but its one of my favorite parts of the sport!! My personal favorite exit is rear facing layout into a backloop then 90' turn and then pitch. Ive been thinking of trying pitching the p/c whilst still coming out of the loop but looks abit scary to me Have fun, Blue skies "swooper 24/7, 365!" ME on Myspace My Project playlist Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
chuckbrown 0 #6 July 12, 2004 I used to love diving out of the door on a hop & pop and dumping on the hill. You're still dumping with the relative wind, only you're on your head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildchild 0 #7 July 12, 2004 Thanks - that makes sense. I always hated poised exits and prefer the dive exit every time and don't feel uncomfortable at all, but was just wondering why some people insist that if you're getting out low you should do a poised exit. Never made sense to me and I was wondering if there was something major I was missing. The relative wind explanation always worked for me!____________________________ "If there is doubt, there is no doubt." - Tonto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
larsrulz 0 #8 July 12, 2004 QuoteWhen doing hop-n-pops, what should be the determining factor in your choice of a poised or dive exit? Whatever you enjoy and/or feel safest doing. Did a H&P sunday after a FJ student; I dove and did a quick 180 so I was head high for deployment. I generally feel most stable in a dive, but mostly the pilot thought I was landing with the plane and JM, so we were going rather quick and it was safest to dive down. I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #9 July 12, 2004 I like the "frog" exit (at least, that's what it was called when it was taught to me. dunno if that's its real name). squat down in the door, hand on the bar, and hop out like a frog (out not up) into the relative wind. been rock solid stable every time I've tried it. easy and fast. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,072 #10 July 12, 2004 > but was just wondering why some people insist that if you're getting > out low you should do a poised exit. For lots of people getting out low this makes sense; you open facing the next person to get out, who is the biggest risk of collision. However, for a solo C+P (or for a few people who leave time between exits) it's not a big deal either way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #11 July 12, 2004 Getting out... either works. If I am taking anything more then a 4-5 second delay I'll normally hop out on my back and backfly the exit while looking back into the plane. Quick flip or roll and I'm tossing.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazarrd 1 #12 July 12, 2004 i prefer the back loop out the door into a 180 turn followed by a triple barrell roll into a headdown. actually, i agree with phree, backflying is usually the way i go. .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SeaKev 0 #13 July 12, 2004 I love door dives....whether from a 182, caravan, or otter. Try a door dive at a higher altitude and see if you're stable out the door. You just need to get your front side facing the relative wind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZegeunerLeben 0 #14 July 12, 2004 Quote When doing hop-n-pops, what should be the determining factor in your choice of a poised or dive exit? >>One should take into consideration the aircraft as well when making this decision. In my experience doing a poised exit from 2800ft from a beech w/ no cut is a bad idea because of the possibility of a tail-strike (seeing it whiz by your head is not fun), so a diving exit w/feet on your butt is a better option in that case (I feel). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
damion75 0 #15 July 12, 2004 Quotei prefer the back loop out the door into a 180 turn followed by a triple barrell roll into a headdown. actually, i agree with phree, backflying is usually the way i go. You jest my friend, but if we are doing H&P for fun then I do like to come out of the door in a sit with my back to the relative wind and backloop before turning 180 so that I don't open towards the last jumper. If it is more serious then I prefer poised as you can see the plane and flick the next guy the bird. By the time you have done that you are far enough away from the plane to safely toss out the PC. I have seen too many videos of people jumping and tossing straight away and almost getting the PC back into the plane...*************** Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kramer 0 #16 July 12, 2004 QuoteGetting out... either works. If I am taking anything more then a 4-5 second delay I'll normally hop out on my back and backfly the exit while looking back into the plane. Same here. I love hop and pops where you have enough altitude to feel comfortable enough to take a 5-10 second delay~thus having a fun, unstable, sweet-looking exit. Exiting in a hard track can be fun too. The FAKE KRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMER!!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #17 July 12, 2004 Quote Exiting in a hard track can be fun too. If I am doing a low exit, this is my style. No matter what position I am in the door, I pivot with one foot off the frame back into the prop blast and go right into a track with my hands behind my back. I wait one second for the tail to clear and I pull right from the track. Gotta love that sub term opening of the canopy behind you on the hill!_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littlestranger 0 #18 July 12, 2004 I did a hop n pop a week or so ago for fun. I tried a poised exit but because the pilot doesn't slow down I was unable to get out the door. The relative wind kept pushing me into the the back of the door frame. I finally threw myself out. Next time I'm diving. Blues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teason 0 #19 July 13, 2004 I agree! You're head down on the slide and you fell that gentle tugging pulling you forward. By the way, my favorite hop'n'pop position from a cessna is hanging upside down from the step by my legs. Pilot gets all weird about "brake lines" and stuff. Fun! I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #20 July 13, 2004 When you learned the sport doing low level IAD's it doesn't relly matter in terms of altitude lost because from 3k, I have about 8 seconds before hard deck (2200 AGL). Sometimes I even use it all . As for maximizing canopy time, go poised definitely! You should be able to have snatch force inside of about 3 seconds from a poised exit (a true hop n pop) - costing you maybe 150 ft of altitude... That said, my DZO (who has a very long history in the sport) suggests that dumping during a diveout is, um, rather exciting. Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #21 July 13, 2004 Quote By the way, my favorite hop'n'pop position from a cessna is hanging upside down from the step by my legs. Pilot gets all weird about "brake lines" and stuff. Fun! Get your pilot to go slow... shimmy out on the strut and try and get your legs up past the relative wind and do it from the wing. Pictorial to your left.(That wasn't a hop & pop though) But what's the dif if your at 10 grand or 3? -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Icon134 0 #22 July 14, 2004 I haven't done my H&P for my A yet but I have been practicing my rear floater to get out stable only at 14k so far then do a Practice touch... I don't think it would qualify as a diveout does it qualify as a poised exit... only done it from a twin otter... although I have also jumped from a Porter as well... ScottLivin' on the Edge... sleeping with my rigger's wife... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Erroll 80 #23 July 14, 2004 Quote I have seen too many videos of people jumping and tossing straight away and almost getting the PC back into the plane You mean like CRW exits, where there are (at the very least) two jumpers exiting in quick succession and dumping very early? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themitchyone 0 #24 July 14, 2004 QuoteI like the "frog" exit (at least, that's what it was called when it was taught to me. dunno if that's its real name). squat down in the door, hand on the bar, and hop out like a frog (out not up) into the relative wind. been rock solid stable every time I've tried it. easy and fast. This is the position I'm most comfortable and it seems to be a good way to get stable. Hop out like a frog and put your belly to the relative wind. I did my first hop 'n pop this way."If the Bible has taught us nothing else, and it hasn't, it's that girls should stick to girl's sports such as hot oil wrestling and foxy boxing." - Homer Simpson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andyflylife 0 #25 July 14, 2004 I love trying as many crazy solo exits as possible! So hop & pops are great practice. I find that being relaxed and staying (lookin') cool is the quickest way of getting stable for the pull. Thinking to much about poising it used to worry me a bit when i first got my A license, then i watched 'Swoop 2001' at the Ranch on video...so many groovy exit ideas captured from the strut camera on the Otter!!! Might sound sad but its one of my favorite parts of the sport!! My personal favorite exit is rear facing layout into a backloop then 90' turn and then pitch. Ive been thinking of trying pitching the p/c whilst still coming out of the loop but looks abit scary to me Have fun, Blue skies "swooper 24/7, 365!" ME on Myspace My Project playlist Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
