bodypilot90 0 #1 June 8, 2004 I've been in contact with the uspa about the issue. John Goswitz has been kind enough to get the issue on the July agenda. I'm not sure the board understands how important a issue it is. Please e mail or call http://www.uspa.org/contact/bod.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #2 June 8, 2004 QuoteI'm not sure the board understands how important a issue it is. What. 4 month or 6 month? Or a change between the two? It's not important at all. The USPA has 120 days, we have 180 days. It's never been a safety issue for you, nor for us. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #3 June 8, 2004 Be careful what you wish for. Changing the repack cycle could have some really bad consequences on a systemic level. I think what you'd see is riggers increasing the price of a repack so their yearly income remains approximately the same, so I think the financial impact of owning a rig would probably be the same. However, rigs would be inspected less frequently (180 day as opposed to 120), so there's more of a chance of a problem happening between cycles that a more frequent I&R might have caught. Further, as you may already know, this isn't really something that the USPA can constantly fight. The FAA is really only going to be interested in changing FAR 105 every so often.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #4 June 8, 2004 QuoteThe FAA is really only going to be interested in changing FAR 105 every so often. And what happens if the FAA look at the sport and decide to change some other things? That's my biggest concern, although skydivers are lazy and tend to let things slip or don't notice them on their gear.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #5 June 8, 2004 Good luck, I think a 6 month cycle would be great and much easier to manage in areas that have off seasons. Like mine. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #6 June 8, 2004 They just rewrote part 105 a few years ago with, in my opinion, all positive outcomes. I think it's pretty clear they won't be making any more changes for a while. I think it'll be very hard to prove a real benefit to going to a 180 day repack cycle. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #7 June 8, 2004 QuoteGood luck, I think a 6 month cycle would be great and much easier to manage in areas that have off seasons. Like mine. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Six month repack cycles make perfect sense in places like Minnesota or Canada where DZs are only open 5 or 6 months out of the year and may make 100 jumps per year. On a practical level, this means the average Canadian skydiver only gets one repack per year. HOWEVER, 6 month repack cycles are dangerous in places like California or Arizona where weekend jumpers skydive 11 months out of the year and put more than 300 jumps worth of wear and tear on their gear every year. Time is insignificant when writing maintenance schedules, wear and tear is the dangerous factor. The FAA is unlikely to change repack cycles because they would need one cycle for Minnesotans and another cycle for Californians. Since aviation is a federal jurisdiction, they can only have one standard within the United States. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #8 June 8, 2004 It's all moot to me. You're never out of date as long as you own a pen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #9 June 8, 2004 Would you have any studies to share on wear and tear vs number of jumps or is this just a best guess based on experience? I trust hard data over experience any day even when the experience is excellent and has tons of history. I jump year around (even in Minnesota) and make over 300/year, just have to dress warmer during some months. Still, 2 packs a year is easier to manage and I have never gotten a direction to approve repairs of any kind during repack in 17 years of the sport (with gear from old and used to brand new). Minor repairs (worn kill line, separating bridle stitching, pockets, velcro) I normally find myself and either get fixed or hold until the next rigger visit. As far as service bulletins, we take care of them as they come out, so they don't apply to the repack cycle either. Six months would save me a few bucks since we have 3 rigs. Edited for the hell of it, addressed to anyone: If you value your rigger, next reserve purchase get a white reserve with red stitching. Heck he's the only guy who sees it anyway and custom colors are just confusing. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #10 June 8, 2004 Here's my throw on it.... It's good for jumpers, and bad for riggers. Those guys gotta get paid too ya know.... Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #11 June 8, 2004 There are two initiatives ongoing. The first is at the request of the FAA to PIA and PIA is supporting that effort. Further details aren't available at this time. The second is a PIA project to acquire data comparing performance at 120 days to 180 days. This project included a request to USPA to help fund the effort, asking for $15,000, 1/2 of the anticipated costs. This request was to be considered at the Winter 2004 USPA BOD meeting. The minutes don't make any mention of the request. Either it wasn't put on the agenda or it was tabled in committee. This effort is currently on hold while the above mentioned FAA initiative is ongoing. Many of the riggers involved with PIA share concerns mentioned above about rig wear and tear voiced by Rob. Rehmwa, you may be conscientious with your rig but most repairs I do are at my suggestion (or insistence). Of course an opposing argument is the wear put on a canopy by packing. PIA as an organization, last time it was voted on, supports going to 180 day inspection cycle. edited for clarity Chairman, PIA Rigging CommitteeI'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 June 8, 2004 That's a nice response. I'll be interested in the results of the study. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 37 #13 June 8, 2004 Don't hold your breath. We're hoping option one accomplishes the change. So were not moving ahead with full design of the study yet. If option one doesn't work, USPA has not yet agreed to share the cost of the study. And, a current reserve manufacturer is conducting their own study, but the protocol takes about 2 and half years. Stay tuned for coming attractions.I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #14 June 9, 2004 QuoteI think it'll be very hard to prove a real benefit to going to a 180 day repack cycle. real easy Dave, it limits wear on my reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #15 June 9, 2004 Hey I believe it. Now do a cost/benefit analysis and show the FAA there is a reason to spend all the money and effort it would take to make the change. You don't have to convince skydivers that there's a good reason for this, you need to convince the FAA. Less wear is meaningless. Prove something they care about. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #16 June 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteHOWEVER, 6 month repack cycles are dangerous in places like California or Arizona where weekend jumpers skydive 11 months out of the year and put more than 300 jumps worth of wear and tear on their gear every year. Time is insignificant when writing maintenance schedules, wear and tear is the dangerous factor. Rob this would imply that ALL Aussie rigs are dangerous We jump year round here in most places and our 6 month repack cycle has not been a safety issue for us.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,989 #17 June 9, 2004 >However, rigs would be inspected less frequently (180 day as >opposed to 120), so there's more of a chance of a problem >happening between cycles that a more frequent I&R might have >caught. To me, a period fixed by the FAA is sorta silly. Should I repack a rig every 120 days that I use once every two months, and spends the rest of the time in a climate controlled closet? Should I put off a repack on a rig that's been exposed to a lot of dampness, dirt and abuse because it's not at 120 days yet? Personally I'd like to see the period fixed by either the gear manufacturers (who know better than the FAA what sort of maintenance their gear needs) or have it left up to the owners, with the exception of rental, student and tandem rigs. Since they are not under the control of their users, a mandated period makes more sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #18 June 9, 2004 Quote>However, rigs would be inspected less frequently (180 day as >opposed to 120), so there's more of a chance of a problem >happening between cycles that a more frequent I&R might have >caught. To me, a period fixed by the FAA is sorta silly. Should I repack a rig every 120 days that I use once every two months, and spends the rest of the time in a climate controlled closet? Should I put off a repack on a rig that's been exposed to a lot of dampness, dirt and abuse because it's not at 120 days yet? Personally I'd like to see the period fixed by either the gear manufacturers (who know better than the FAA what sort of maintenance their gear needs) or have it left up to the owners, with the exception of rental, student and tandem rigs. Since they are not under the control of their users, a mandated period makes more sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe the ideal repack schedule would be 1 year or 200 jumps for sport gear, but more like 100 days or 100 jumps on school gear. The record-keeping would drive school riggers insane! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #19 June 9, 2004 Quote there's more of a chance of a problem happening between cycles that a more frequent I&R might have caught. I am not a rigger and I am 100% against raising the cycle on repacks. Quade nailed it on the head - most people are dolts and don't do proper gear inspection and the 120 cycle probably saves more lives than you think. Yes, a reserve could probably sit in your rig for 6 months or a year and still work like a charm. However, you may very easily see incidents on the increase due to the lack of rigs being looked at by riggers. Why does anyone feel this is an important issue???? So you save a bit of annoyance and have to leave your rig in the loft maybe one less time a year? You might save $40 a year? Wear on your gear? How many people do you know that actually keep a reserve for its entire life cycle of repacks? I don't see the issue and I don't want my membership fees being used to lobby for such a useless and unsafe change._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tonto 1 #20 June 9, 2004 Quote HOWEVER, 6 month repack cycles are dangerous in places like California or Arizona where weekend jumpers skydive 11 months out of the year and put more than 300 jumps worth of wear and tear on their gear every year. Time is insignificant when writing maintenance schedules, wear and tear is the dangerous factor. Oh. All rigs in South Africa are dangerous too then. I'm doing 400 dives a year on a 6 month repack cycle. Not ALL my rigging repairs happen every 6 months. EVERY MONTH I have zippers replaced, student jumpsuits patched, and there are always Alti straps being repaired, canopies relined, kill lines replaced etc well before a reserve repack. There are times my shoelaces need replacing too - and I don't wait for the next reserve repack to do it. I think you're confusing a "reserve repack cycle" with things that have NOTHING to do with reserve repacks. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Squeak 17 #21 June 9, 2004 QuoteQuote I am not a rigger and I am 100% against raising the cycle on repacks. Quade nailed it on the head - most people are dolts and don't do proper gear inspection and the 120 cycle probably saves more lives than you think. However, you may very easily see incidents on the increase due to the lack of rigs being looked at by riggers. I doubt you'll find that South Africa or Australia have a higher rate of incedents than the USA and Both SA & Oz have 6 month cycles. It all boils down to personal responsibility. It's your gear YOU look after itYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #22 June 9, 2004 Which reminds me, I promised a junior jumper that I would host a one-day "Know your gear" seminar this summer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NightJumper 0 #23 June 9, 2004 QuotePersonally I'd like to see the period fixed by either the gear manufacturers (who know better than the FAA what sort of maintenance their gear needs) or have it left up to the owners, with the exception of rental, student and tandem rigs. Bill, you know better than anyone since you have addressed this issue before with the manufactures that this is a bad idea since it would allow gear manufactures to use this as an marketing advantage (buy our container it only has to have the reserve repacked every two years!). Just like aircraft maintenance this is an area that needs to be regulated as it keeps everything consistent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #24 June 9, 2004 QuoteEdited for the hell of it, addressed to anyone: If you value your rigger, next reserve purchase get a white reserve with red stitching. Heck he's the only guy who sees it anyway and custom colors are just confusing. Funny, my rigger (who helped me pick out my gear) said he hates white reserves as they are harder to inspect. He said to get a yellow reserve."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #25 June 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteEdited for the hell of it, addressed to anyone: If you value your rigger, next reserve purchase get a white reserve with red stitching. Heck he's the only guy who sees it anyway and custom colors are just confusing. Funny, my rigger (who helped me pick out my gear) said he hates white reserves as they are harder to inspect. He said to get a yellow reserve. Ask him if it's the contrast in stitching vs the material that bugs him. Then it makes sense. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
billvon 2,989 #17 June 9, 2004 >However, rigs would be inspected less frequently (180 day as >opposed to 120), so there's more of a chance of a problem >happening between cycles that a more frequent I&R might have >caught. To me, a period fixed by the FAA is sorta silly. Should I repack a rig every 120 days that I use once every two months, and spends the rest of the time in a climate controlled closet? Should I put off a repack on a rig that's been exposed to a lot of dampness, dirt and abuse because it's not at 120 days yet? Personally I'd like to see the period fixed by either the gear manufacturers (who know better than the FAA what sort of maintenance their gear needs) or have it left up to the owners, with the exception of rental, student and tandem rigs. Since they are not under the control of their users, a mandated period makes more sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 643 #18 June 9, 2004 Quote>However, rigs would be inspected less frequently (180 day as >opposed to 120), so there's more of a chance of a problem >happening between cycles that a more frequent I&R might have >caught. To me, a period fixed by the FAA is sorta silly. Should I repack a rig every 120 days that I use once every two months, and spends the rest of the time in a climate controlled closet? Should I put off a repack on a rig that's been exposed to a lot of dampness, dirt and abuse because it's not at 120 days yet? Personally I'd like to see the period fixed by either the gear manufacturers (who know better than the FAA what sort of maintenance their gear needs) or have it left up to the owners, with the exception of rental, student and tandem rigs. Since they are not under the control of their users, a mandated period makes more sense. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Maybe the ideal repack schedule would be 1 year or 200 jumps for sport gear, but more like 100 days or 100 jumps on school gear. The record-keeping would drive school riggers insane! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #19 June 9, 2004 Quote there's more of a chance of a problem happening between cycles that a more frequent I&R might have caught. I am not a rigger and I am 100% against raising the cycle on repacks. Quade nailed it on the head - most people are dolts and don't do proper gear inspection and the 120 cycle probably saves more lives than you think. Yes, a reserve could probably sit in your rig for 6 months or a year and still work like a charm. However, you may very easily see incidents on the increase due to the lack of rigs being looked at by riggers. Why does anyone feel this is an important issue???? So you save a bit of annoyance and have to leave your rig in the loft maybe one less time a year? You might save $40 a year? Wear on your gear? How many people do you know that actually keep a reserve for its entire life cycle of repacks? I don't see the issue and I don't want my membership fees being used to lobby for such a useless and unsafe change._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tonto 1 #20 June 9, 2004 Quote HOWEVER, 6 month repack cycles are dangerous in places like California or Arizona where weekend jumpers skydive 11 months out of the year and put more than 300 jumps worth of wear and tear on their gear every year. Time is insignificant when writing maintenance schedules, wear and tear is the dangerous factor. Oh. All rigs in South Africa are dangerous too then. I'm doing 400 dives a year on a 6 month repack cycle. Not ALL my rigging repairs happen every 6 months. EVERY MONTH I have zippers replaced, student jumpsuits patched, and there are always Alti straps being repaired, canopies relined, kill lines replaced etc well before a reserve repack. There are times my shoelaces need replacing too - and I don't wait for the next reserve repack to do it. I think you're confusing a "reserve repack cycle" with things that have NOTHING to do with reserve repacks. tIt's the year of the Pig. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #21 June 9, 2004 QuoteQuote I am not a rigger and I am 100% against raising the cycle on repacks. Quade nailed it on the head - most people are dolts and don't do proper gear inspection and the 120 cycle probably saves more lives than you think. However, you may very easily see incidents on the increase due to the lack of rigs being looked at by riggers. I doubt you'll find that South Africa or Australia have a higher rate of incedents than the USA and Both SA & Oz have 6 month cycles. It all boils down to personal responsibility. It's your gear YOU look after itYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 643 #22 June 9, 2004 Which reminds me, I promised a junior jumper that I would host a one-day "Know your gear" seminar this summer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NightJumper 0 #23 June 9, 2004 QuotePersonally I'd like to see the period fixed by either the gear manufacturers (who know better than the FAA what sort of maintenance their gear needs) or have it left up to the owners, with the exception of rental, student and tandem rigs. Bill, you know better than anyone since you have addressed this issue before with the manufactures that this is a bad idea since it would allow gear manufactures to use this as an marketing advantage (buy our container it only has to have the reserve repacked every two years!). Just like aircraft maintenance this is an area that needs to be regulated as it keeps everything consistent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Reginald 0 #24 June 9, 2004 QuoteEdited for the hell of it, addressed to anyone: If you value your rigger, next reserve purchase get a white reserve with red stitching. Heck he's the only guy who sees it anyway and custom colors are just confusing. Funny, my rigger (who helped me pick out my gear) said he hates white reserves as they are harder to inspect. He said to get a yellow reserve."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #25 June 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteEdited for the hell of it, addressed to anyone: If you value your rigger, next reserve purchase get a white reserve with red stitching. Heck he's the only guy who sees it anyway and custom colors are just confusing. Funny, my rigger (who helped me pick out my gear) said he hates white reserves as they are harder to inspect. He said to get a yellow reserve. Ask him if it's the contrast in stitching vs the material that bugs him. Then it makes sense. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
riggerrob 643 #22 June 9, 2004 Which reminds me, I promised a junior jumper that I would host a one-day "Know your gear" seminar this summer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NightJumper 0 #23 June 9, 2004 QuotePersonally I'd like to see the period fixed by either the gear manufacturers (who know better than the FAA what sort of maintenance their gear needs) or have it left up to the owners, with the exception of rental, student and tandem rigs. Bill, you know better than anyone since you have addressed this issue before with the manufactures that this is a bad idea since it would allow gear manufactures to use this as an marketing advantage (buy our container it only has to have the reserve repacked every two years!). Just like aircraft maintenance this is an area that needs to be regulated as it keeps everything consistent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #24 June 9, 2004 QuoteEdited for the hell of it, addressed to anyone: If you value your rigger, next reserve purchase get a white reserve with red stitching. Heck he's the only guy who sees it anyway and custom colors are just confusing. Funny, my rigger (who helped me pick out my gear) said he hates white reserves as they are harder to inspect. He said to get a yellow reserve."We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #25 June 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteEdited for the hell of it, addressed to anyone: If you value your rigger, next reserve purchase get a white reserve with red stitching. Heck he's the only guy who sees it anyway and custom colors are just confusing. Funny, my rigger (who helped me pick out my gear) said he hates white reserves as they are harder to inspect. He said to get a yellow reserve. Ask him if it's the contrast in stitching vs the material that bugs him. Then it makes sense. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
