Can't get through AFF - I can't turn :(

[rob 0]

Hi all. I'm going nuts here... I've been wanting to do AFF since 1999 when the place I was doing static line closed down. Now i've had to repeat AFF stage 2 (now modified to do only turns from 12k) four times! I can't afford to go on much more, and its a bit like thrashing a dead horse. I'm doing it all right on the ground.... its just in the air my arch collapses and it feels really wrong... but when i see other ppl turn, they barely seem to move! I'm seriously considering travelling internationally to get to a wind tunnel to work this out (I'm in Australia)... is that a realistic solution?? I REALLY want to skydive... just watching people run out the back of an Otter (?) and diving into the sky makes me so pumped its incredible!

[Brodes 0]

What do your instructors say? Have you seen video of yourself in freefall that you can work with? It sounds like you're almost trying 'too hard'. Im only a student, but you shouldn't need to make big movements to turn, its just a slight shift of your body position and the wind will do the rest. I had the same problems for two jumps but once i relaxed and 'let it flow' it became second nature. Where in oz are you?

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[rob 0]

My instructor says just that - its easy, relax, use the broomstick technique, let the air turn you, don't try to hard, don't overthink it. All this sounds fine, and I understand the priciples all to well. However, in the air it doesn't work. On the table I have gravity and the table keeping my hips level, but in the air as soon as I try to turn, my hips turn but my upper body hardly moves, which drops on leg and elevates the other (its much measier than that). I know once I get it (if I ever do) I'll say "thats so easy.. what was the problem", which makes it all the more frustrating. I really don't want to give up, but I don't want to throw good money after bad either.


Where am I? I'm in Coffs Harbour at the moment - a great place by the way. Rather than saying "turn up at 9 an we'll see", they book you into a time to jump, so there's much less hanging about.

[cloud_monkey 0]

You need to relax there bubba - The hardest thing to do, and one of the most important things to do when learning to skydive is to simply relax your body. Jumping out of a plane can be quite overwhelming for most people in the begining and the tendency is to tense up and your body doesn't fly well when it's stiff. Concentrate on relaxing yourself both on the ground and on your way to altitude. Go over the instructions you've been given by your instructors and try not to worry about failing the skydive. That's gonna trip you up every time. Think about it - you said yourself that when you've seen other people turn their bodies barely seem to move - that's becuase it takes surprisingly small movements to turn your body in freefall because the slip stream does most of the work for you. Just a little tip- turn your head in the direction you want to turn - your body's natural tendency is to follow your head. Talk to your instructors - I'm sure they have lots of experience dealing with problems just like this - it's quite common. Most people don't make it though the entire student progression without a slip-up or two. Once you learn how to relax yourself in freefall I'm sure you'll do just fine.

Good Luck and Blue Skies
Z

[Brodes 0]

It's relaxing both your mind AND your body too. On yesterdays jumps i closed my eyes, deep breathed and sang a song in my head on the way to altitude and it did amazing things for me, i pretty much overcame similar problems to yours. Dont forget to breath in freefall too!

[nael 0]

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Rather than saying "turn up at 9 an we'll see", they book you into a time to jump, so there's much less hanging about.

In that "hanging about" time you can learn so much just by talking to other skydivers around you. Today, for example, I spent a good 6 hours at the dz and didnt even get to jump (low clouds that never lifted) but I chatted to so many different people all day and learnt so much. Last sunday I spent the day learning to pack after they stopped putting loads up due to high winds. I think hanging around the dz before and after jumps is half the fun......skydivers are such great people!

Hang in there with your AFF - you'll get the turns, and until then, each jump is more experience for you. I know how expensive it is, I just repeated stage 7, but when it comes down to it, I'd rather repeat and be confident about going to the next stage, than pass the stage and feel like I shouldnt have (which has happened to me twice!).

I found turns hard at first too, and something that really really helped me was practicing on the ground, actually lying down on the ground, because I found when i stood up on the ground in an arch position I ended up doing the wrong thing for a turn. If you're already lying on the ground (or a table!) to practice, keep it up, because it really does help (in my experience). Good luck!

www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store

[jannas 0]

if you're turning right, look to the right find a reference point, be relaxed and just push your right elbow slightly down. Doesn't have to be as distinct as the "broom stick". Looking where youre going and "thinking" your way there helps.

And don't worry, it will get more expensive...

[Nightingale 0]

hmm....

can you get to a wind tunnel?

sometimes, people have a lot less anxiety in the tunnel, so you can work on what you need to work on. then, once your body knows how its supposed to feel, its easier to reproduce it on a skydive.

[joeybob9 0]

Like everyone else is saying... take it easy and relax ( I know its easier said than done sometimes) I failed my Level 2 as well, but thats because I couldnt get my damn legs out. I live a little under 4 miles from the wind tunnel, so I have easy access to it. After i failed, I went down there, paid the 30 bucks for the 2 one minute jumps an just practiced turns and getting my legs out. Seeing that I was able to do it boosted my confidence enough for me to go back to level 2... I had everything done before I hit 8000 feet and got to play around... If you arent able to make it to the tunnel, which seems to be the case...see if maybe the instructor can even assist you w/ the turn. Maybe then can push your elbow, which would give you the feel of what its like.. I was worried as well, I had that feeling like.."so moving my elbow is going to turn me..?? yeah right".. It does, and its amazing how so little movement can turn you.... good luck and blue skys that turn..

"When once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." ~da Vinci

[riggerrob 643]

Hee! Hee!
Sounds like your instructor is trying to teach you shoulder turns while your body instinctively wants to do leg turns.
We all learn different ways.
Maybe you should tactfully suggest to your instructor that he teach you leg turns. Leg turns are a perfectly acceptable technique, it is just that most humans are arm-oriented - so it is easy for them to learn arm turns - and they take longer to learn leg turns.
Maybe you are built upside down.
Hee! Hee!

Speaking of upside down ... maybe you can practice relaxing by laying - on your back - on a giant Swiss exercise ball.
Good freefall requires relaxing most of the muscles on the front of your body while gently pulling with most of the muscles on the back of your body.

Just a general explanation, your local AFF instructor will be glad to fill in the details.

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

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I'm doing it all right on the ground.... its just in the air my arch collapses and it feels really wrong... but when i see other ppl turn, they barely seem to move! I'm seriously considering travelling internationally to get to a wind tunnel to work this out (I'm in Australia)... is that a realistic solution??

Rob, I am a fairly new skydiver (one year ~159 jumps), but I must say that your idea of going to a wind tunnel is the best alternative, in my opinion. I suggest taking one of the Skyventure tunnel camps in either Florida or California. Most camps are 1 hour of tunnel time spread out over 3 days or so. The overall tunnel camps are designed with lectures, dirt-diving, tunnel sessions, video debriefs, etc. and, yes, I have seen AFF students in these camps, not just experienced flyers. They cater the camps to help each person individually with his/her level of skills.

The tunnel in Orlando, Florida is less expensive per minute, but the one in Perris, CA is actually on the DZ...so maybe you can both fly in the tunnel and go through AFF all at once. You can also call Skydive Elsinore www.skydiveelsinore.com, which is only 20 minutes away from Perris' tunnel and can offer AFF (perhaps slightly cheaper) and tunnel time and/or Perris, of course, at www.perrisvalleyskydiving for their AFF program and tunnel prices.

Call and speak to the wind tunnel people in Orlando and Perris and/or e-mail Brannan through the Skyventure website www.tunnelcamp.com about your problems with turns. Be specific about what your goals are. Be sure to tell them how limited your funds are...perhaps you can get some kind of deal. Good luck and let me know if you decide to come out to California!

Btw, my first time in the tunnel was when I had about 100 jumps...and I LOVED IT

[ltdiver 3]

Damn, I remember asking the same question of my instructor many moons ago. 'How do you turn in the air?' (I had learned to skydive through S/L).

He chuckled at me and said, "Just fly there!"

It wasn't until I attended 'Skydive University" that I finally got it. Oh, I could turn before then, but not the 'proper way'...

You have some terrific advice here on your thread. I support the wind tunnel idea, if you can afford it. Wish it had been around when I was a newbie!

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[rob 0]

I'm in Australia, which doesn't have a single wind tunnel, otherwise I'd be there. To go to a wind tunnel I'd have to go to a Malaysian fun park, or to America or Paris (I'm sure there are others). I'd love to go to Orlando.. and will do if I have to. I'm detirmined to do this.
Thanks to everyone for taking the time and effort to reply. I imagine it is difficult to really take seriously something so trivial once you're experienced. Cheers.

Rob

[nael 0]

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I'm in Australia, which doesn't have a single wind tunnel, otherwise I'd be there. To go to a wind tunnel I'd have to go to a Malaysian fun park, or to America or Paris (I'm sure there are others).

I live in Australia aswell, so I know you're frustration with wind tunnels. Theres a wind tunnel in NZ, which is kinda close (well, close compared to the US!). I've heard its pretty good.

www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store

[wmw999 2,447]

I realize it's more jumps, but something to consider that's less expensive than traveling to a wind tunnel is another level 1 jump or even a tandem, just relaxing and arching. And then don't arch super hard -- just let the wind blow your arms and legs back. The instructors will keep you in position, and it begins to become clear how the body can want to stay stable. It's when you try too hard to stay arched that you get unstable half the time.

For turns, my "patented" technique was to look OVER your shoulder in the direction you want to turn. It turns your upper body into a propeller, and your legs tend to want to counter. But you have to look OVER (which isn't hard if you're letting the wind do the work).

Either way, good luck. Relaxing is hard sometimes, but it can work in the long run.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Phillbo 11]

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Leg turns are a perfectly acceptable technique, it is just that most humans are arm-oriented - so it is easy for them to learn arm turns - and they take longer to learn leg turns.
Maybe you are built upside down.
Hee! Hee!

.

I too am built upside down .. Leg turns came much more naturaly to me ..

[KrisFlyZ 0]

Rob,

I had the same problem, I would de-arch and do wierd stuff with my legs. My istructor told me this put a stick on my neck long enough to rest both the arms on it(in the boxman position) and practice the dive flow at home.

I purchased a cheap hockey(ice/stating kind) and chopped off the end that you hit the puck with. I used to put a small table in the center of the room and arch and practice my turns. That helped, something about muscle memory.

Good luck.
Kris.

[rob 0]

Thanks for the tip, though I've done it to death. My instructors say what I'm doing on the ground is fine, its just in the air that it goes to poo. n I've been practicing anyway, to get it to be automatic when I'm up there. I'm still not convinced I'm not doing something wrong.
Do you 'lean' towards your target? or are you more like a plane - i.e. spine totally straight (horizontal, head to ass axis)?

Anyway, we'll see... I'll have another go on the weekend. I'm more detirmined to be a skydiver than to have money... whats the point of money anyway, other than to help you jump?
Thanks again to everyone who has been sharing the love.

[ltdiver 3]

Rob,

Here is a nice web page with visuals that might aid you in your learning.

My advice is to take the arm turns and do them for your Level II skydive. The leg turns can come later.
Everyone learns by different methods. Some by reading. Others by listening. I learn by visualization and putting it into practice.

Hope this helps.

ltdiver

Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon

[rob 0]

Sweet.. thanks for the link. I've been looking for somewhere like that.. cheers.

[rob 0]

It finally sunk in - despite being told over and over by my instructors - that I was focussing to much on my arms and letting my arch and legs go. I'm ok for stage 5, though I'm not sure I'm ready, but at least its a big improvement! I also found not just watching the JM out in front but maintaining total eye contact as much as possible was a great help. All this I was told to do, but it is taking a few goes to put it all together. I'm out of the rut now, even if I'm far from perfect. Thanks to all for the tips.
Ok for stage five

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