Lindsey 0 #76 May 7, 2004 I remember that I was absolutely blown away when experienced jumpers started charging new jumpers to jump with them--usually just paying for their lift ticket. Y'all remember when it was debated on the forums ad nauseum? Nowadays it's the standard. Maybe there's more standardization in teaching now, but I really did appreciate those folks (who subsequently became permanent fixtures in my life) who spent time because they wanted a future 4-way partner and because someone had done it for them. I miss that kind of comaraderie. When I started jumping my board back in about '95 or '96, Jerry Loftis spent LOTS of time with me on the phone because there was NO ONE out here who knew anything about jumping a board, and he loved what he did. He didn't know who the heck I was, but he gave me lots of his time. I really appreciated him, and I wonder how much of that kind of spirit is still alive. There's a DZO, Jim Weddle, who use to go to the airport on Wednesday afternoons and fly me and my friend so we could play with the board. He was willing to lose money because he thought it was fun, and because he's a really nice guy. I miss that too. My jumping slacked off a lot in the last several years after my child was born and after I went back to school. So I'm probably missing jumping in general as much as I'm missing the way it use to be, but I do wonder sometimes if, when I get my jump feet back on, I'll be as enchanted with it as I once was. Thanks for the post billvon. Peace~ Lindsey QuoteQuoteI started in 2000 and I don't believe a coach rating existed then The coach ratting didn't need to exist back then. Students came out even on bad weather days and LISTENED to the experienced guys. In turn the experienced guys tried to help. With AFF becoming the rage, and the DZ's becomming more comerical...Students were given 7 jumps then ignored... Before AFF become the rage...We didn't need the coach rating. Before people came ou and wanted it all now and stopped being willing to work to get it...We didn't need the coach rating.-- A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot1 0 #77 May 7, 2004 QuoteI have talked at great length over many a beer with some of the people around our DZ who were around when cutting away meant dealing with the capwells! If you don't know what they are, find someone at your dz who you think is old and obsolete, he'll tell ya with a gleam in his eye! While your at it, ask him for all his stories, they are always worth the listen. Hell, I even know new tandem instructors that are affraid to even do a tandem on anything but a Sigma rig because they are scared of the 3rings on the drouge! -www.WestCoastWingsuits.com www.PrecisionSkydiving.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #78 May 7, 2004 There are still DZs where the Coach rating means very little. At Skydive Chicago we have people with the rating, but there isn't one that I know of that charges the newbies. In fact, Team Funnel is out there always promoting jumping with the newbies for free - even if it just means going out and falling flat and stable for them (I love it when someone calls that boring....you do realize it is still a skydive??). I do realize that some smaller DZs that have shorter student programs need the Coach, but outside of taking the newbie up until their A license, I don't think someone should be charged. However, I am ok with freefly coaching for some reason._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #79 May 7, 2004 QuoteI do realize that some smaller DZs that have shorter student programs need the Coach, but outside of taking the newbie up until their A license, I don't think someone should be charged. However, I am ok with freefly coaching for some reason. What about higher level RW coaching? Rarely do I charge, but I don't mind my lift being paid."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #80 May 7, 2004 QuoteThere's a DZO, Jim Weddle, who use to go to the airport on Wednesday afternoons and fly me and my friend so we could play with the board. He was willing to lose money because he thought it was fun, and because he's a really nice guy. I miss that too. Whats up with Jim? I learned at CAPC back 11 years ago...If you go there thell them I said "Hi"."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #81 May 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteI do realize that some smaller DZs that have shorter student programs need the Coach, but outside of taking the newbie up until their A license, I don't think someone should be charged. However, I am ok with freefly coaching for some reason. What about higher level RW coaching? Rarely do I charge, but I don't mind my lift being paid. The coaching that you and all the other "open 4-way" types do for individuals and teams that are looking to refine thier skills seems to be widely accepted, and I think that practice isn't something that takes advantage of anyone. In fact, it can help further the competitive nature of the sport. However, if any higher skill level jumper were to ask me for cash just for him/her being asked to join our skydive? Well, I would have some very impolite words for that skydiver._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #82 May 9, 2004 QuoteIMHO, if you are a jumper and the word "lawsuit" is in your vocab, quit now. No excuses, no reasons, etc...you don't need to jump. NO, don't bother trying to reason with me - and I will tell you this in person - quit now if you feel you will ever sue the DZ or another jumper. On top of that, I don't want to jump with you either. so you're basiclly saying "its not a safe sport, so i accept all of the risks, even the unneeded ones" no, its not a safe sport, but there is a difference between known (and accepted) risks which come with the sport and unneeded risks which i'm not willing to accept. this sport is risky enough without a drunk pilot, poorly maintained plane and out of date reserves. these are not accident, these are crimes. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #83 May 9, 2004 QuoteQuoteIMHO, if you are a jumper and the word "lawsuit" is in your vocab, quit now. No excuses, no reasons, etc...you don't need to jump. NO, don't bother trying to reason with me - and I will tell you this in person - quit now if you feel you will ever sue the DZ or another jumper. On top of that, I don't want to jump with you either. Quote so you're basiclly saying "its not a safe sport, so i accept all of the risks, even the unneeded ones" Exactly, could not have said it better myself. Quote no, its not a safe sport, but there is a difference between known (and accepted) risks which come with the sport and unneeded risks which i'm not willing to accept. this sport is risky enough without a drunk pilot, poorly maintained plane and out of date reserves. these are not accident, these are crimes. You don't need to worry about most of that stuff anymore, it seems those days of the sport are gone for the most part..... But you sign a waiver that says you accept all risks. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't jump. Remember, skydiving is a luxury - you do not need to do it...you are placing yourself in danger._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,030 #84 May 10, 2004 >no, its not a safe sport, but there is a difference between known > (and accepted) risks which come with the sport and unneeded risks > which i'm not willing to accept. Agreed. >this sport is risky enough without a drunk pilot, poorly maintained > plane and out of date reserves. Agreed again. Do not take those risks if you do not want to deal with them. >these are not accident, these are crimes. None of the things you listed were accidents. They might be factors in an accident, but are not accidents themselves. If you don't want to expose yourself to the risks from the things you list, don't. If you are OK with those risks, then by all means take them - but accept that YOU are the one who decided you are OK with the risks. No one can force you to get in an airplane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #85 May 10, 2004 QuoteBut you sign a waiver that says you accept all risks. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't jump you keep treating the waiver as "giving your word" not to sue, and thats fine with me. i will keep my word as long as the DZ keeps theirs. the "trust" you talk about should go both ways, and if a DZO falsifies records or tries to save money by compromising safety, this trust is broken. i value my word and i will not break it unless i REALLY feel this trust was broken by the DZ. hopefully i'll never have to face this dilemma... o "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #86 May 10, 2004 QuoteNone of the things you listed were accidents. They might be factors in an accident, but are not accidents themselves. If you don't want to expose yourself to the risks from the things you list, don't. If you are OK with those risks, then by all means take them - but accept that YOU are the one who decided you are OK with the risks. No one can force you to get in an airplane. i meant "accidents" as mistakes, not as a plane crash. and i disagree. accepting these risks would be, knowing the engine is overdue for maintenance yet taking off hoping it will be ok. as far as i "know" the plane is maintained properly. if the DZ knows there is a problem with the plane and doesn't inform the jumpers, thats not an "acceptable" risk. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 4 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
billvon 3,030 #84 May 10, 2004 >no, its not a safe sport, but there is a difference between known > (and accepted) risks which come with the sport and unneeded risks > which i'm not willing to accept. Agreed. >this sport is risky enough without a drunk pilot, poorly maintained > plane and out of date reserves. Agreed again. Do not take those risks if you do not want to deal with them. >these are not accident, these are crimes. None of the things you listed were accidents. They might be factors in an accident, but are not accidents themselves. If you don't want to expose yourself to the risks from the things you list, don't. If you are OK with those risks, then by all means take them - but accept that YOU are the one who decided you are OK with the risks. No one can force you to get in an airplane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #85 May 10, 2004 QuoteBut you sign a waiver that says you accept all risks. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't jump you keep treating the waiver as "giving your word" not to sue, and thats fine with me. i will keep my word as long as the DZ keeps theirs. the "trust" you talk about should go both ways, and if a DZO falsifies records or tries to save money by compromising safety, this trust is broken. i value my word and i will not break it unless i REALLY feel this trust was broken by the DZ. hopefully i'll never have to face this dilemma... o "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #86 May 10, 2004 QuoteNone of the things you listed were accidents. They might be factors in an accident, but are not accidents themselves. If you don't want to expose yourself to the risks from the things you list, don't. If you are OK with those risks, then by all means take them - but accept that YOU are the one who decided you are OK with the risks. No one can force you to get in an airplane. i meant "accidents" as mistakes, not as a plane crash. and i disagree. accepting these risks would be, knowing the engine is overdue for maintenance yet taking off hoping it will be ok. as far as i "know" the plane is maintained properly. if the DZ knows there is a problem with the plane and doesn't inform the jumpers, thats not an "acceptable" risk. O "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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