For you AFF Students out there...

[Scrumpot 1]

A line in another thread has caught my curiosity as to some potential current perceptions out there. Please answer honestly if you would.

For the poll portion, please, only current (or very recently off of) AFF STUDENT status only, ...PLEASE. Commentary and materially posted input/feedback further from AFF instructors and/or other experienced skydivers is certainly welcome (and indeed solicited!). However, "experienced" input in the poll section may skew desired data.

POLL QUESTION:
"As an AFF Student, I feel comfortable/reasonably assured that if I get into trouble, my AFF JM will pull for me if necessary."

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Brian425 0]

As someone who has recently finished AFF, I feel very strongly that my coach/JM would pull for me if needed. If you do not have 100% faith in your coach, you have no business jumping with them. I beleive 100% that all my coaches would have put their own life at risk to insure my safety if needed. This belief is the reason I was able to step out of the plane on that first jump.

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[benny 0]

As they told me, I am responsible for my own life. Stay altitude aware and now that I'm on single JM status remember the 5 second rule. Never be afraid to pull

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Brian425 0]

Benny, I was told the same thing. I am responsible for my own life. However, they are there to help keep you safe. If you don't think they will try save you, don't jump with them

As one of my coaches shirt says, "A dead student is not a repaet customer"

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[benny 0]

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Benny, I was told the same thing. I am responsible for my own life. However, they are there to help keep you safe. If you don't think they will try save you, don't jump with them

As one of my coaches shirt says, "A dead student is not a repaet customer"

Oh yeah, I think they'd try but as the saying goes, "the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

What I trust more than them pulling for me is that they felt confident that I displayed enough cognizance regarding what they had taught me that they'd be willing to let me jump out of the plane.

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[flyinggoose 0]

It was made very clear that we had to save our own lives off student status. During the student portion I know for a fact they'll pull for ya.

"Never waste a heartbeat."

[Jimbo 0]

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During the student portion I know for a fact they'll pull for ya.

It's nice to think that, isn't it?

What if you managed to get away from your instructors? It's happened to the best of them.

-
Jim

"Like" - The modern day comma
Good bye, my friends. You are missed.

[flyinggoose 0]

Well,
The way that it was explained to me is:

The JM is responsible for your life while you are on student status. If the individual qualified as an AFF instructor, he damn well better be able to save a life.

The coach, once you're off student status, is there to evaluate you for basic skydiving skills. He may tell you when to pull but he is not responsible for saving your life.

"Never waste a heartbeat."

[Brian425 0]

Jimbo,
I am certain that some students get away. I just trust that my instructor would do everything possible to get to me.

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[benny 0]

Yeah, for that matter my last jump (Tuesday) was my first release, and my JMs were telling me about a guy they had recently whom they had to chase all over the sky. Now, I'd think they'd try to get to me and pull if they could, but I wouldn't expect them to go in chasing after my ass either. Of course they'd do everything they could, but I'd never jump thinking "hey, it's ok if I mess up, someone will pull for me"

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[Scrumpot 1]

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I am certain that some students get away. I just trust that my instructor would do everything possible to get to me.

This is precisely the stuff I am looking for! Thank you for your candor! Please, keep it coming.

Maybe Brian, if you wouldn't mind you can even expand upon this a little. ...How long would you "wait" for an instructor to get to you, if you felt (as you indicate) he was "coming to get you"?

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[Brian425 0]

The first time going out the door with my own rig, I was not sure how I would react. I had faith that Nicky would do whatever it took to get us both down safely.

We were told that if we lost the coach for 5 seconds, pull. Personally if I felt that I was unsafe and I could not see my coach, I would pull. I just don't think a student can ever be 100% prepared for their first jump with their own rig. Your coach is your safety net and whould/will pull for you if you do not.

Ask anyone from the Ranch, Pete pulled a pilot chute from out from a student's leg strap. Pete went the extra mile to insure his student was safe. I'l sure that all of the coaches at the Ranch would do that for a student.

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[skyyhi 0]

I still have 2 more aff jumps. . .I HAVE NOT EVER nor do I currently expect that my JM will pull for me. I am the only one responsible for my safety when I jump and that includes pulling. It is great to know they are there in a pinch but I will NEVER rely on them to do what is my responsibility.

________________________________________
Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ
FGF #6
Darcy

[skipro101 0]

I have 24 jumps. I did my first two jumps tandem and my third with one JM. On my third jump, i was very unstable. He kept shaking me to arch, and i thought i was...but i wasnt aware enough to realize my feet were on my lower back.

At pull time, I could not find my handle. (it was floating around). After about 4 or 5 seconds of trying...honestly..i was thinking "well i cant get it, ill just wait for my jm too". True, he was right there handing on to me...and he did in fact pull for me. We had a long talk after that jump about what would have happend if this was a "let go" dive.

I voted Yes with the attitude that "if possible" he is going to pull for me. if possible.

Now...i know that he might not have been able to catch me if this had happened after he let go of me. But back then...all i was thinking about was the dive flow....not about pulling.

I definitely have a different attitude than i did back on jump 3.

[RoadRash 0]

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The JM is responsible for your life while you are on student status. If the individual qualified as an AFF instructor, he damn well better be able to save a life.

The JM is responsible for "training" you to save your life, but ONLY YOU(!!!!) are responsible for saving your life on every skydive. Now if you mean that they must deploy for you if you are unable or show no sign at deploment altitude, then yes, I have seen JMs who deployed students...

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~...

[Kris 0]

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The JM is responsible for your life while you are on student status. If the individual qualified as an AFF instructor, he damn well better be able to save a life.

BS. If you were told that then you were told wrong. YOU and only you are responsible for your life during a skydive. Not the JM, not the other people on the load....you! Of course, tandem is an exception.

Any student that believes that their instructor will definitely pull for them is living a dangerous fantasy. A good instructor will definitely try their best to help you un-fuck yourself if it comes to it, and 95% of the time they are able to do it, but a good instructor will also know when to give up and hope for the best.

No skydiver (even instructors) should have any friends below 2000 feet. I was taught that even while getting my IAD-instructor rating. And I don't have any friends below 2K.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Kris 0]

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What if you managed to get away from your instructors? It's happened to the best of them.

Agreed. I won't say which DZ I saw it happen at, but I watched an AFF level 1 go out solo out of a Cessna. The student froze on the count and had both hands locked to the strut. The instructors were left holding onto his grippers. One fell off immediately, the other a few seconds later.

The student then waited another few seconds and left on his own, but too late for the instructors to float back up to him.

Luckily, the ground-training was good enough for the student to hold a stable arch (barely even a mild spin that we could see from the ground) and the student deployed a little under 3K. I was certain I was going to see a Cypres fire that day.

I know both AFF instructors and they aren't slackers, they simply got caught off guard.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[newsstand 0]

28 jumps and I voted yes to what the question should have been which is "Will you JM do everything in their power to pull for you if required."

As many people have stated you are responsible for your own life even as an AFF student but the JM has accepted some of that too. They shouldn't get themselves killed trying to save you but they are there to make it as safe as the sport can be.

To the person who talked about waiting for the instructor to do something for you, you were not paying attention. If you think there is a problem it is time for you to end the skydive, not wait for someone else to do it for you. Better to pull too early than too late.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[Scrumpot 1]

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28 jumps and I voted yes to what the question should have been which is "Will you JM do everything in their power to pull for you if required."

No, the question should not have been.... (yada, yada, yada). I know what the question was "supposed to have been" and it is as posted because I POSTED IT! But thanks for participating.
Seriously, I thought of several different ways to potentially post this, and/or whether I was gonna do this instead of a "poll", as an opening to a dialogue, but then, I wanted honest, un-influenced answers, which THANK YOU -we seem to be getting! I was not looking for thoughts of "what if" in an "ideal" type situation, "depends", etc. ...Just very basically (like I asked) ---AFF Students (or those just off with very fresh memories of their AFF) Do you (or did you) feel that your AFF JM's would pull for you if you didn't?

More dialogue to come, but I'd still like to get some more honest answers/input #'s in here 1st. For those of you who can't click on the poll answer to see the results currently it is running 16 "True" (73%) to 6 "False" (27%).

Keep those answers coming! -THANKS.
-Grant

coitus non circum - Moab Stone

[newsstand 0]

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No, the question should not have been.... (yada, yada, yada). I know what the question was "supposed to have been" and it is as posted because I POSTED IT! But thanks for participating.

Well excuuuuse me
In that I case I hope the results shift because too many trues mean complacent students. Skipro101 pointed out that his attitude has changed since jump three when he was waiting for the JM to help him out. That is a good thing but it is a bad thing that he was led to believe that was a correct attitude in the first place. Over and over I was told "If things are going wrong end the skydive." That meant for me to pull, not wait.

"Truth is tough. It will not break, like a bubble, at a touch; nay, you may kick it about all day like a football, and it will be round and full at evening."
-- Oliver Wendell Holmes

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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Jimbo,
I am certain that some students get away. I just trust that my instructor would do everything possible to get to me.

I believe that the point Jim was trying to get across is that "everything possible" could still fail to be enough.

Goose said with such confidence that he was sure they'd pull for him, and undoubtably, they would indeed make their greatest effort i'm sure... but it IS possible that they aren't able to. Anything is possible, it's a big sky.

Angela.

[dzdiva 7]

I'm still on student status. From day 1 my JM's have always told me that ultimately "I" am responsible for as they put it "saving my life". I fall very fast, so I knew on every jump that there was a possibility that I would lose one or both JM's. I was taught that as long as I was comfortable with the way things were going I could continue with the skydive. On one occasion, I did just that. I never expected a JM to pull for me. It was my responsibility.

"It's not just a daydream if you choose to make it your life..."

[TribalTalon 0]

hmm.. i NEVER EVER expected my jump masters to pull for me. EVER. no matter how badly i screwed up a dive, i always pulled. my jumpmasters said they felt alot more comfortable with me after i showed that i would pull, on time, no matter what was going on. Dont ever think that oh the jm WILL pull. Granted, the JM will do everything they can to get to you to pull, but they wont kill themselves trying (most JM's anyway) all you have to do is remember the cardinal rule of skydiving. PULL!!! (and btw i've got 10 jumps)

[Brian425 0]

POLL QUESTION:
"As an AFF Student, I feel comfortable/reasonably assured that if I get into trouble, my AFF JM will pull for me if necessary."

[ifics 0]

Its been a little while since I have been in AFF but I voted yes. If I was in a lot of trouble and my JM thought it was necessary to pull for me then he/she would (at a resonable altitude). I didn't rely on that but I feel they would if they felt it was necesary.