freeflybella 0 #26 April 9, 2004 Heath had close to 5000 jumps before his first cutaway - and that was only from test-piloting the removable slider system. I guess they're not inevitable but they are damn likely! I always worried that when he did finally have a cutaway - he wouldn't be used to having something he couldn't clear and ride it too long. Silly me. Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbrasher 1 #27 April 9, 2004 Have you ever had a flat tire? Usually a flat tire is an incovenience. A malfunction should be the same, if your prepared. Whether you have one or not isn't important, are you prepared to have one. Red, White and Blue Skies, John T. Brasher D-5166 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #28 April 9, 2004 Im going out to the DZ sat morn and I am going to have a mal...on the 1st 2nd and 3rd load therefore Im ready...... "hope it's an easy one" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakflyer9999 1 #29 April 9, 2004 I know someone that had over 6000 jumps before his first cutaway and I've watched a first jump student cutaway. Personally I've had 4 cutaways in a little over 200 jumps. Always be prepared. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nbblood 0 #30 April 9, 2004 QuoteThe variables that come together to create that situation are not controllable so you just never know... Hhmmm.....a lot of the variables are controllable. Not all of them, of course. I think your point is, be ready, no matter what.....but I don't want to put words in your mouth. Blues, NathanBlues, Nathan If you wait 'til the last minute, it'll only take a minute. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #31 April 9, 2004 anyone else have the mindset of trying to avoid them(cutaways) as long as possible, I've joked about packing my main like a paranoid wuss because its one thing I can do to decrease the chance of a mal, I see people trash pack all the time one had a line visable out of the container I pointed it out he opened the container stuffed it back in and closed the container ... I asked him WTF (as he was one of the people teaching me to pack and he had been so careful and helpful to me) he said somethinglike thats what reserves are for ....... so now I ask everyone WTF? Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kris 0 #32 April 9, 2004 QuoteIve had my fair share of cutaways...and I'll bet I am the only person to cutaway a reserve and open his main Nope, there was a woman several years back who had a premie reserve fire and the reserve lodged on the tail of the plane with her in-tow. She hook-knifed herself free from the reseve then opened her main. Either way, you're still in a very exclusive club.Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Auryn 0 #33 April 9, 2004 QuoteI was talking to someone last month who has almost 5,000 jumps and I asked them if they had any cutaways. The answer was "of course". So, should I figure that as I get more and more jumps that the chance of me getting one is unavoidable? I'm very anal when it comes to packing and I was hoping if I'm always that way then I won't have to worry about it. Anyone know the highest # of jumps with NO cutaways? I don't know of the highest jump # w/o a cutaway, but I have an interesting number for you. I know someone quite well with 5 malfunctions in her 100 or so jumps.. the mals were as follows: lineover-hardpull-hardpull-hardpull resulting in a dual out downplane that she did not chop and got lucky-ballosh*t shes running a 1:25ish average. she still jumps. Blue Ones ! D27808 D27808 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crutch 0 #34 April 9, 2004 WTF? Personally, over 4 years and well over 2000 jumps since my last malfunction (2700 tandems and no malfunctions). Does this mean I am less prepared than the guy who is cutting away on a regular basis? Don't think so, just take better care of my gear and who packs for me!blue skies, art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #35 April 9, 2004 WTF = What the fuck Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #36 April 9, 2004 one of my AFF instructors had over 2500 jumps, and no cutaways (at least, no cutaways as of my AFF 2 about four months ago, when I asked her). However, I also know someone who had a cutaway on their very first jump. Some malfunctions are caused by body position rather than by packing. A perfect packjob cannot guarantee a perfect opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 9 #37 April 9, 2004 Where I come From there are several people who have all had their first cutaway on jump 17. Creepy..... Kansasskydiver can testify to that....=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rocketdog 0 #38 April 9, 2004 Colon Berry has.... NOT SURE.... around 9,000+ jumps and packs his own chute/has not had one to my knowledge.... i'm sure there's others! see the world! http://gorocketdog.blogspot.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peacefuljeffrey 0 #39 April 9, 2004 I think that when people talk about the "chances of" a given thing happening, they oversimplify "probability" greatly. Take, for instance, crossing the street. If 100,000 people cross a given street in a year, and five of them get hit by cars doing so, the "chance of getting hit by a car crossing that street" would be said (by some) to be 5/100,000 or .005 percent. But is that REALLY your "chance" of being hit by a car crossing that street? After all, success at crossing the street is not as simple as throwing a ball into a roulette wheel! No, I can say with virtual certainty that my chances of crossing that street successfully are virtually 100%, because I CONTROL most of the factors that govern whether I will do so safely or not. I control whether I look both ways, whether I run or walk, whether I look where I'm going and don't trip, whether I try to rush ahead of a car or wait for it to pass, whether I do it at the corner or in the middle... Likewise, with skydiving. Just because out of X number of jumps done, there are Y number of malfunctions/cutaways/injuries/deaths, does not mean that each of us shares an equal exposure (the value Y over X) to having those things happen to us. Take a look at the Fatality summary in this month's Parachutist: 72% of the deaths (by experience level) were of D-license holders! Just as the street-crosser who takes care when crossing does not expose himself to nearly the "average" risk of injury, neither does the cautious and conservative skydiver expose himself to ALL of the average risk of malfunction/injury. It's virtually unknowable just how much user-responsibility is behind the typical cutaway. The majority of cutaways, I'm going to assume, end up in successful reserve deployments and no harm done. I can't say how much one can do to decrease, much less eliminate the chances of having to do a cutaway, but I'm sure that careful attention to packing, doing your own (knowledgeable) packing, being well-trained and always on the hunt for more learning and experience, and frequent inspection of your gear can help greatly. I jump a Lotus (not elliptical) and most of the people I hear talk about cutaways are people who jump high performance elliptical canopies, and they tell me about how much worse line-twist ends up being under them as opposed to squares. I guess jumping squares is yet another way to decrease the potential to have to cut away... But many are not willing to make that sacrifice. I guess I remain open to the possibility that circumstances beyond my control -- or circumstances that I fail to control -- may one day require me to do a cutaway. In fact, two nights ago I had a dream in which I looked up to see a bag-lock malfunction and I was in the process or grabbing for my cutaway handle when I woke up. (It was scary, because as I've read so many times, handle and harness positions had shifted during the deployment and I was burning altitude as I tried to get the handle, which was not exactly where it normally is...!) --Jeffrey "With tha thoughts of a militant mind... Hard line, hard line after hard line!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckbrown 0 #40 April 9, 2004 I had back-to-back cutaways before I had my A license. Jumps 18 & 19. I've also had 3 other malfunctions that I was able to clear before I had to cutaway. No matter how many jumps you have, always practice your EPs so that when the time comes (it will) your reactions will be automatic. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #41 April 9, 2004 A couple of years ago, Packin' Cathy was telling me that Jerry Bird had his first. I think he had around 10,000 when that happened. I'll check though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #42 April 9, 2004 Not to hijack but Packing Cathy is at AerOhio this year. Back on topic, I honestly do not look FORWARD to a cutaway with any sort of excitement. But I always go into the jump thinking I may have to do so, that way I am mentally prepared. I hope, however that I never have one. One of my AFF instructors just had her first cutaway last year and she had over 3500 jumps. Hope I make it that far without one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #43 April 9, 2004 There's two kinds of skydivers, "Those that have had a reserve ride and those that will have a reserve ride." As we've seen in this thread; no matter what your numbers, 1, 1800, 2500, 3500, 10,000 - one should be prepared. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 140 #44 April 9, 2004 QuoteHowever, I also know someone who had a cutaway on their very first jump. you know Mark LUTZ ?? I know of people with several thousand jumps without a cutaway.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #45 April 9, 2004 Quote you know Mark LUTZ ?? You mean Scott Lutz? Nope. It was someone who had their FJC a few weeks before me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #46 April 9, 2004 QuoteYou mean Scott Lutz? I just watched that on Skydivingmovies.com. dumbest thing i ever saw.... shame he isn't posting on the "dumbest thing" thread really, except he would probably say it was all his instructors fault Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lummy 4 #47 April 9, 2004 QuoteSome malfunctions are caused by body position rather than by packing. A perfect packjob cannot guarantee a perfect opening. it's like how the saying goes,In this sport, you can do everything right and still die. You can have perfect body position, pack perfectly, be the only person in the sky and still have a mal.I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #48 April 9, 2004 I just saw the video.. is this guy still jumping? his interview in that clip "it just riped off" NO you pulled the cutaway, the chute did just what it was supposed to do (I really hope he is land locked or really really learned from this) I also wish the TV program had asked an instructor to watch the tape to explain what happened! Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elfanie 0 #49 April 9, 2004 QuoteI just saw the video.. is this guy still jumping? his interview in that clip "it just riped off" NO you pulled the cutaway, the chute did just what it was supposed to do (I really hope he is land locked or really really learned from this) I also wish the TV program had asked an instructor to watch the tape to explain what happened! You obviously missed the best part... watch it again....he says, and I quote... "I deployed the chute...the chute opened, and I - I looked up, and the chute was full and round which was a good sign...but the next second the chute was disappearing, I was going further and further away from it." umm....no you dimwit...the chute never opened and you weren't jumping a round chute anyways. Watch the video again from about 53 seconds in and you'll hear him say that... -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Praetorian 1 #50 April 9, 2004 yea I got that part too, I could be wrong here but What a DUMBASS Good Judgment comes from experience...a lot of experience comes from bad judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
