sducoach 0 #26 January 2, 2004 Quote Puh-leeze, wrong situation/illustration to whip this statement out upon altogether! I don't think that THIS is what is to be learned from this incident at all, and in fact I would submit that one can take precisely the OPPOSITE position on this. Instead, it was a cypres fire here that could have rather COST him his life! What almost "COST him his life!" was going low. Not a cypres. I hope you and all other fairly new skydivers understand the difference and the point. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jaimechang 0 #27 January 2, 2004 May be it is appropriate to add d) Plan your jump and follow the plan. Though this might deserve being placed as "a" or "b". I think most will agree in that even a 2-way should be built following a plan... that should include what to do if a skydiver doesn't make it to her/his slot. (too low, too high, too far... whatever) as well as break-off altitude, tracking, etc. Even traffic under the canopy should be planned. Don't worry about taking the fun out of it because of being "retentive"... much of the plan will be ensuring that general guidelines will be followed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #28 January 2, 2004 Pre-Cypres jumpers used to "go low" I suppose by this definition relatively ALL THE TIME, J.E. 1,500' AGL would have (and has) been considered a normal/fully acceptable deployment altitude. ...pre-Cypres. Again, I don't think that we are on entirely different pages here. If you read FULLY what I wrote, I said "ONE" could potentially take the opposite position (based on anothers argument FOR the Cypres), not even necessarily that I was. Going "low" was not entirely what almost "cost him his life" however. Pulling at any altitude that affords a full canopy for a safe landing prior to impact is what will save (or not doing, COST) a jumpers life. The Cypres merely influences (and yes it is my assertion that in some cases it can even complicate) those considerations. Losing altitude AWARENESS, and full awareness for his situation is what almost cost him his life. Again, I was merely paraphrasing and playing off anothers (devils advocate) post here. Clarifications understood though and definately noted. -THANK YOU! -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jiggs 0 #29 January 7, 2004 To get away from the Cypress debate - a hypothetical - Your on a 20way or so, at around 5 or 6k some one busts in the formation and shreds the formation, bodies fly everywhere and people are at different levels but still in relatively close proximity. Do you (a) stay with the clump of crap till breakoff (b) try and rebuild something and then breakoff (c) Track off I used to be a big fan of option b but as I have gotten more experience I have become more of a fan of (c). That said, when I go I track hard and open up at the normal height - so I tend to cover quite a bit of ground. (besides I love pouring on a good track!) Anyway - What would you do, why?"Don't blame malice for what stupidity can explain." "In our sleep, pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart and in our despair, against our will comes wisdom" - Aeschylus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #30 January 7, 2004 You do whatever the organizer planned. Usually you try to rebuild to breakoff, then break off as normal. If you track from 7K to 3K you risk running in to another group - if you track and stop you risk someone else from your group running into you. The best way to break off is to start from a center, and the closer you can get to the original center (i.e. the planned formation) the better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #31 January 7, 2004 Please note that I haven't been on any formation larger than a 10-way. My gut reaction to this is to do as I was briefed to do if I went low on a formation. Move to the side of the formation and try to get back up. If you can't get back up, track off ~500' before break off so that the others can see you go, and know where you are. In my eyes, this applied to a shreaded 20-way would mean try and rebuild, but be careful on breakoff, as there might be people any where. However, I was on 10-way that turned into a complete zoo. On that jump I was supposed to be docking on the 4-way base, except that it funneled. I stayed high and away waiting for it to rebuild. There was people going everywhere in the sky, and there was nearly at least one collision. I broke off just as everyone else start to break, I estimate that it was ~500-1000' above our planned break off height.-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
