SabreJoe 1 #1 January 3, 2004 Deleted per request of original poster=============================== Don't Die Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #2 January 3, 2004 QuoteWhat the hell do we do with this guy??? If you've told him before, and he refuses to listen, you ground him. Sure, he'll probably go to another DZ, but there's nothing preventing you from calling around and making sure they're aware of his attitude and why he's not jumping at CPC anymore. Hell, most DZs probably wouldn't let him jump without an A, anyhow. Right? Try telling him that all the cool kids tend to open at, or above, 3K. With the introduction of faster, more complex, and slower opening parachutes, people are opening higher these days. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivingchad 0 #3 January 3, 2004 I thought if a person doesn't have an A licence or better they are not allowed to jump with anyone else unless it's a coaching jump with an instructor? Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug. Pelt Head #3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #4 January 3, 2004 QuoteI thought if a person doesn't have an A licence or better they are not allowed to jump with anyone else unless it's a coaching jump with an instructor? Only not allowed by the USPA. which means zip. A DZ can do whatever they want to. Also, that BSR is waiverable by the S & TA/ I/E. Derek Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jdthomas 0 #5 January 3, 2004 what can you do besides talk to him about the problem? Is the DZO going to stop it? if not then maybe the S&ta should. Maybe just don't jump with him? or sadly enough let Darwin,gravity and a mal deal with him.. man thats bad to say but we all know people who are out to make holes in the earth and you just can't seem to stop them no matter how hard you try. Good luck and if you find the answer let me know so I can use it in the future.www.greenboxphotography.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #6 January 3, 2004 Tell the DZO you and your friends are scratching from all loads that this guy is on in the future and do it. Having enough people speak with their money is some times enough to make a DZO take steps like sending the S&TA over, imposing groundings or ever tossing them off the DZ.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hazarrd 1 #7 January 3, 2004 Quote This guy will sit in the clubhouse and go through the logbook on his pro-track and it sounds something like 2200-2600-2100-2300-2900-1800-2500-2000. Quote I don't know the situation so I wont speculate about it, however, when I pull at 3500 my protrack registers at around 2600. If I pull at 3000 it will say something around 2300. The protrack has no way of knowing when the jumper throws out his pilot chute, only when his speed begins to decelerate. .-. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #8 January 3, 2004 ***suminabizatch Quote This is NOT a proper term for this type of skydiver... Do a quick search on the proper terminology for usage in this application... See; ASSHAT! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,998 #9 January 4, 2004 >This guy will sit in the clubhouse and go through the logbook on his > pro-track and it sounds something like 2200-2600-2100-2300-2900 >-1800-2500-2000. These numbers on a Protrack means he's pulling at around 2200-3000 feet. A bit low for someone with 70 jumps; it depends on his canopy. If he has a snively small canopy, it's a big deal. If he has a big spanker it's not as big a deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #10 January 4, 2004 Quote What the hell do we do with this guy??? Take away the one thing he enjoys & give him a 30 day vacation from skydiving. Have the DZO call -all- the other drop zones in the area and tell them about this guy and make sure he doesn't jump -anywhere- until his attitude changes.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sducoach 0 #11 January 4, 2004 Bill, The protrack backs up 200' from the alitude it reads zero. This is a DZO problem. Blues, J.E. Hey Little Joe!!James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #12 January 4, 2004 Don't do anything with him, Darwin will handle it. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites exwhuffo 0 #13 January 4, 2004 nothing sends a message like popping the reserve handle! assuming they have their own gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrogNog 1 #14 January 5, 2004 QuoteDon't do anything with him, Darwin will handle it. Sparky Call me superstitious, but I wouldn't want to be on the same load with this guy when he goes in. In fact, I wouldn't want to be at the same DZ, if his cratering is predictable. I second Phree's suggestion of refusing to ride loads with him, and clearly communicating that to manifest. Gallows humor: at least you get a lot of separation from this guy at pull time. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kyros1 0 #15 January 5, 2004 Everyone of us worth a second chance. The DZO should instruct him again and warn him that he will be grounded next time. Tell him why it is good to pull high. .... ah and he should buy BEER next time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #16 January 5, 2004 DZO just has to issue a standing order that every time he pulls belwo 3000ft he gets his reserve poped on the ground as punishment. The repack bills will soon drive him higher. If its judged by his protrack though be fair and warn him about how it can register lower - that way you'll get him tossing out at 3.5 like he ought to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #17 January 5, 2004 I used to pull low....Then I had some friends walk up to me and say: "If you bounce we are going to piss on your body while it is still warm". "If you do it again, we are going to beat your ass" Worked for me."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,998 #18 January 5, 2004 >The protrack backs up 200' from the alitude it reads zero. Which works great if your parachute always opens in 200 feet. A great many nowadays do not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #19 January 5, 2004 QuoteA great many nowadays do not. Thank goodness! - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sducoach 0 #20 January 5, 2004 Bill, My point exactly. The reading on a ProTrac are not accurate. In fact there's this little redheaded guy up in Sullivan who learned real quick how to delete those jumps!!! Hey, sorry about your accident. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveNFlorida 0 #21 January 5, 2004 Quotenothing sends a message like popping the reserve handle! assuming they have their own gear. It would be very difficult for me to not pop someone in the mouth if they did this to me. I'm getting my 40$ worth, i'll tell ya that much Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HRHSkyPrincess 0 #22 January 6, 2004 Ground or boot him for awhile. Be sure to chew his ass out good. Call the other dzo's, too. Who wants a stupidity statistic at their dz? It's bad for the sport and eventually, enormously horrible for his heirs and devisees!***************** Attitude is everything! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craddock 0 #23 January 6, 2004 QuoteHave the DZO call -all- the other drop zones in the area and tell them about this guy and make sure he doesn't jump -anywhere- until his attitude changes. Attitude or altitude? Honestly I do not see why everyone is having such an issue over this. If the DZO wants him to pull higher that is for him to deal with. I sure don't understand why so many are acting like this is an accident waiting to happen. Pro Track typically register lower than deployment alttitude. Having come from a cessna DZ and a static line student, my first jumps were from 3000' and all relative work since I've had close to 50 jumps is broke off at 3500'. I can remember my first formation load out of the chase plane at around the same number of jumps as this guy(my 75th). We were instructed by the DZO that there should be no canopies above 2000' (I think there were some tracking skills in question). Funny how times change and what AFF has done to the newer jumpers. Assuming he is still jumping a larger docile canopy, I have no problem with a 2500-3000 ft deployment. jeez Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites zyzko 0 #24 January 6, 2004 Quote This guy will sit in the clubhouse and go through the logbook on his pro-track and it sounds something like 2200-2600-2100-2300-2900-1800-2500-2000. I don't know about the culture and regulations on opening altitudes in the USA, but those altitudes sound perfectly normal - or at least "not dangerous" to me. In my country (Finland) the regulations say that you have to be under fully inflated canopy at 600m (2200 feet) - when I had a Pro Track it constantly showed opening altitudes of 550-650m when I was jumping my Cobalt (I pull at 2700-3000 feet). If you have a snivelly canopy, you still have a plenty of time to react to malfunctions, because you are constantly slowing your descent as the canopy opens. OTOH, if this guy jumps a very fast opening canopy, the best way to react in my opinion would be to ask him how much he thinks he has time to react to a total malfunction, and to make him count how many second he really has. I teach my student that after they get their licenses they should pull at 3000-3300 feet, which would register in something like 2500-2800 on a Pro Track. When on student rigs they pull at 3600, but after they graduate I really don't think there is any reason to pull that high, and getting used to pull "high" can make things "not good" for an example in boogies where you are not allowed to pull for an example above 2700 or 3000 feet. What I think is more important is the break-off altitude, and that as a low-timer you have enogh time to wave off, track to get sufficient separation and concentrate on opening at the proper,planned altitude. -Kari Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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airtwardo 7 #8 January 3, 2004 ***suminabizatch Quote This is NOT a proper term for this type of skydiver... Do a quick search on the proper terminology for usage in this application... See; ASSHAT! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,998 #9 January 4, 2004 >This guy will sit in the clubhouse and go through the logbook on his > pro-track and it sounds something like 2200-2600-2100-2300-2900 >-1800-2500-2000. These numbers on a Protrack means he's pulling at around 2200-3000 feet. A bit low for someone with 70 jumps; it depends on his canopy. If he has a snively small canopy, it's a big deal. If he has a big spanker it's not as big a deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 4 #10 January 4, 2004 Quote What the hell do we do with this guy??? Take away the one thing he enjoys & give him a 30 day vacation from skydiving. Have the DZO call -all- the other drop zones in the area and tell them about this guy and make sure he doesn't jump -anywhere- until his attitude changes.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sducoach 0 #11 January 4, 2004 Bill, The protrack backs up 200' from the alitude it reads zero. This is a DZO problem. Blues, J.E. Hey Little Joe!!James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 4 #12 January 4, 2004 Don't do anything with him, Darwin will handle it. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites exwhuffo 0 #13 January 4, 2004 nothing sends a message like popping the reserve handle! assuming they have their own gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FrogNog 1 #14 January 5, 2004 QuoteDon't do anything with him, Darwin will handle it. Sparky Call me superstitious, but I wouldn't want to be on the same load with this guy when he goes in. In fact, I wouldn't want to be at the same DZ, if his cratering is predictable. I second Phree's suggestion of refusing to ride loads with him, and clearly communicating that to manifest. Gallows humor: at least you get a lot of separation from this guy at pull time. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kyros1 0 #15 January 5, 2004 Everyone of us worth a second chance. The DZO should instruct him again and warn him that he will be grounded next time. Tell him why it is good to pull high. .... ah and he should buy BEER next time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #16 January 5, 2004 DZO just has to issue a standing order that every time he pulls belwo 3000ft he gets his reserve poped on the ground as punishment. The repack bills will soon drive him higher. If its judged by his protrack though be fair and warn him about how it can register lower - that way you'll get him tossing out at 3.5 like he ought to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #17 January 5, 2004 I used to pull low....Then I had some friends walk up to me and say: "If you bounce we are going to piss on your body while it is still warm". "If you do it again, we are going to beat your ass" Worked for me."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,998 #18 January 5, 2004 >The protrack backs up 200' from the alitude it reads zero. Which works great if your parachute always opens in 200 feet. A great many nowadays do not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #19 January 5, 2004 QuoteA great many nowadays do not. Thank goodness! - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sducoach 0 #20 January 5, 2004 Bill, My point exactly. The reading on a ProTrac are not accurate. In fact there's this little redheaded guy up in Sullivan who learned real quick how to delete those jumps!!! Hey, sorry about your accident. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveNFlorida 0 #21 January 5, 2004 Quotenothing sends a message like popping the reserve handle! assuming they have their own gear. It would be very difficult for me to not pop someone in the mouth if they did this to me. I'm getting my 40$ worth, i'll tell ya that much Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HRHSkyPrincess 0 #22 January 6, 2004 Ground or boot him for awhile. Be sure to chew his ass out good. Call the other dzo's, too. Who wants a stupidity statistic at their dz? It's bad for the sport and eventually, enormously horrible for his heirs and devisees!***************** Attitude is everything! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites craddock 0 #23 January 6, 2004 QuoteHave the DZO call -all- the other drop zones in the area and tell them about this guy and make sure he doesn't jump -anywhere- until his attitude changes. Attitude or altitude? Honestly I do not see why everyone is having such an issue over this. If the DZO wants him to pull higher that is for him to deal with. I sure don't understand why so many are acting like this is an accident waiting to happen. Pro Track typically register lower than deployment alttitude. Having come from a cessna DZ and a static line student, my first jumps were from 3000' and all relative work since I've had close to 50 jumps is broke off at 3500'. I can remember my first formation load out of the chase plane at around the same number of jumps as this guy(my 75th). We were instructed by the DZO that there should be no canopies above 2000' (I think there were some tracking skills in question). Funny how times change and what AFF has done to the newer jumpers. Assuming he is still jumping a larger docile canopy, I have no problem with a 2500-3000 ft deployment. jeez Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites zyzko 0 #24 January 6, 2004 Quote This guy will sit in the clubhouse and go through the logbook on his pro-track and it sounds something like 2200-2600-2100-2300-2900-1800-2500-2000. I don't know about the culture and regulations on opening altitudes in the USA, but those altitudes sound perfectly normal - or at least "not dangerous" to me. In my country (Finland) the regulations say that you have to be under fully inflated canopy at 600m (2200 feet) - when I had a Pro Track it constantly showed opening altitudes of 550-650m when I was jumping my Cobalt (I pull at 2700-3000 feet). If you have a snivelly canopy, you still have a plenty of time to react to malfunctions, because you are constantly slowing your descent as the canopy opens. OTOH, if this guy jumps a very fast opening canopy, the best way to react in my opinion would be to ask him how much he thinks he has time to react to a total malfunction, and to make him count how many second he really has. I teach my student that after they get their licenses they should pull at 3000-3300 feet, which would register in something like 2500-2800 on a Pro Track. When on student rigs they pull at 3600, but after they graduate I really don't think there is any reason to pull that high, and getting used to pull "high" can make things "not good" for an example in boogies where you are not allowed to pull for an example above 2700 or 3000 feet. What I think is more important is the break-off altitude, and that as a low-timer you have enogh time to wave off, track to get sufficient separation and concentrate on opening at the proper,planned altitude. -Kari Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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billvon 2,998 #9 January 4, 2004 >This guy will sit in the clubhouse and go through the logbook on his > pro-track and it sounds something like 2200-2600-2100-2300-2900 >-1800-2500-2000. These numbers on a Protrack means he's pulling at around 2200-3000 feet. A bit low for someone with 70 jumps; it depends on his canopy. If he has a snively small canopy, it's a big deal. If he has a big spanker it's not as big a deal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #10 January 4, 2004 Quote What the hell do we do with this guy??? Take away the one thing he enjoys & give him a 30 day vacation from skydiving. Have the DZO call -all- the other drop zones in the area and tell them about this guy and make sure he doesn't jump -anywhere- until his attitude changes.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #11 January 4, 2004 Bill, The protrack backs up 200' from the alitude it reads zero. This is a DZO problem. Blues, J.E. Hey Little Joe!!James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 4 #12 January 4, 2004 Don't do anything with him, Darwin will handle it. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
exwhuffo 0 #13 January 4, 2004 nothing sends a message like popping the reserve handle! assuming they have their own gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #14 January 5, 2004 QuoteDon't do anything with him, Darwin will handle it. Sparky Call me superstitious, but I wouldn't want to be on the same load with this guy when he goes in. In fact, I wouldn't want to be at the same DZ, if his cratering is predictable. I second Phree's suggestion of refusing to ride loads with him, and clearly communicating that to manifest. Gallows humor: at least you get a lot of separation from this guy at pull time. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyros1 0 #15 January 5, 2004 Everyone of us worth a second chance. The DZO should instruct him again and warn him that he will be grounded next time. Tell him why it is good to pull high. .... ah and he should buy BEER next time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #16 January 5, 2004 DZO just has to issue a standing order that every time he pulls belwo 3000ft he gets his reserve poped on the ground as punishment. The repack bills will soon drive him higher. If its judged by his protrack though be fair and warn him about how it can register lower - that way you'll get him tossing out at 3.5 like he ought to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #17 January 5, 2004 I used to pull low....Then I had some friends walk up to me and say: "If you bounce we are going to piss on your body while it is still warm". "If you do it again, we are going to beat your ass" Worked for me."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,998 #18 January 5, 2004 >The protrack backs up 200' from the alitude it reads zero. Which works great if your parachute always opens in 200 feet. A great many nowadays do not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #19 January 5, 2004 QuoteA great many nowadays do not. Thank goodness! - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #20 January 5, 2004 Bill, My point exactly. The reading on a ProTrac are not accurate. In fact there's this little redheaded guy up in Sullivan who learned real quick how to delete those jumps!!! Hey, sorry about your accident. Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #21 January 5, 2004 Quotenothing sends a message like popping the reserve handle! assuming they have their own gear. It would be very difficult for me to not pop someone in the mouth if they did this to me. I'm getting my 40$ worth, i'll tell ya that much Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HRHSkyPrincess 0 #22 January 6, 2004 Ground or boot him for awhile. Be sure to chew his ass out good. Call the other dzo's, too. Who wants a stupidity statistic at their dz? It's bad for the sport and eventually, enormously horrible for his heirs and devisees!***************** Attitude is everything! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
craddock 0 #23 January 6, 2004 QuoteHave the DZO call -all- the other drop zones in the area and tell them about this guy and make sure he doesn't jump -anywhere- until his attitude changes. Attitude or altitude? Honestly I do not see why everyone is having such an issue over this. If the DZO wants him to pull higher that is for him to deal with. I sure don't understand why so many are acting like this is an accident waiting to happen. Pro Track typically register lower than deployment alttitude. Having come from a cessna DZ and a static line student, my first jumps were from 3000' and all relative work since I've had close to 50 jumps is broke off at 3500'. I can remember my first formation load out of the chase plane at around the same number of jumps as this guy(my 75th). We were instructed by the DZO that there should be no canopies above 2000' (I think there were some tracking skills in question). Funny how times change and what AFF has done to the newer jumpers. Assuming he is still jumping a larger docile canopy, I have no problem with a 2500-3000 ft deployment. jeez Josh That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zyzko 0 #24 January 6, 2004 Quote This guy will sit in the clubhouse and go through the logbook on his pro-track and it sounds something like 2200-2600-2100-2300-2900-1800-2500-2000. I don't know about the culture and regulations on opening altitudes in the USA, but those altitudes sound perfectly normal - or at least "not dangerous" to me. In my country (Finland) the regulations say that you have to be under fully inflated canopy at 600m (2200 feet) - when I had a Pro Track it constantly showed opening altitudes of 550-650m when I was jumping my Cobalt (I pull at 2700-3000 feet). If you have a snivelly canopy, you still have a plenty of time to react to malfunctions, because you are constantly slowing your descent as the canopy opens. OTOH, if this guy jumps a very fast opening canopy, the best way to react in my opinion would be to ask him how much he thinks he has time to react to a total malfunction, and to make him count how many second he really has. I teach my student that after they get their licenses they should pull at 3000-3300 feet, which would register in something like 2500-2800 on a Pro Track. When on student rigs they pull at 3600, but after they graduate I really don't think there is any reason to pull that high, and getting used to pull "high" can make things "not good" for an example in boogies where you are not allowed to pull for an example above 2700 or 3000 feet. What I think is more important is the break-off altitude, and that as a low-timer you have enogh time to wave off, track to get sufficient separation and concentrate on opening at the proper,planned altitude. -Kari Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
