TheShrubber 0 #1 March 17, 2004 This is my AFP 2. When I pulled that happen. Is that a malfunction? I was wondering what would of happen if the jumpmaster was not there. I would have cut away. The link to the movie is below. http://www.triadriders.com/scuba/shrubber2_5.wmv Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #2 March 17, 2004 Link doesn't work. Blue ones, ianPerformance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
indyz 1 #3 March 17, 2004 Take one of the h's out of "shhrubber" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #4 March 17, 2004 Is it just me or is the bottom flap clinging to the grommet on the dbag?____________________ Say no to subliminal messages Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #5 March 17, 2004 Looks like your PC was in your burble. Hard to tell what happened when your head & shoulders were out of frame. Did you immediately look back after you threw it out, or did you hesitate?Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheShrubber 0 #6 March 17, 2004 No, I immediately looked back when it did not open Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fast 0 #7 March 17, 2004 Clicky! If the instructor wasn't there, and If the bag never came off your back, then it would of been a malfunction, requiring emergency procedures as taught to you. If it did come off your back, then it would not have been a malfunction. (Not trying to be a smart ass or anything, just added that to my making it clicky)~D Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me. Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #8 March 17, 2004 Looks like the bag hesitated after the container opened. It might have come out by itself or things would have gotten real nasty if there was'nt an instructor with you. This would have been similar to a PC in tow, but since the container was open, pulling the reserve would most likely have released the bag. I don't want to guess what would have happened after that. Does that rig have a Kill-line PC? Maybe time to check/replace the PC. I would ask the local rigger to take a look at the rig before jumping it again. Kris. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #9 March 17, 2004 You had a PC hesitation which could have been caused by one of a couple of things: -your PC is wearing out and not providing suffient snatch force. -your bag is slightly too big for your container and the PC had a hard time pulling it free If it was the first thing, it's possible it didn't get enough snatch because the packer (you?) didn't put the little counter-fold in the bridle. If it was the second thing, agressively checking over both shoulders while elbowing your container is generally enough to free the bag. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yoink 321 #10 March 17, 2004 Quote If it was the first thing, it's possible it didn't get enough snatch because the packer (you?) didn't put the little counter-fold in the bridle. Chuck umm... a little clarification please? What little counter fold??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFlyZ 0 #11 March 17, 2004 Quote If it was the second thing, agressively checking over both shoulders while elbowing your container is generally enough to free the bag. Chuck Hey, the guy was on AFP2!! I would have the container/PC problem fixed before having a student jump it. Now if you were jumping it Chuck.......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #12 March 17, 2004 How much free line did you leave between the last stow and the links? If there was not enough then it could have hung up because it was held so tight to the top of the tray against the reserve with your risers pinched under the corners of the reserve. (You'll notice on the video that the bag appears to pivot at this point.) Along with that, how big were your stows? I tried to freeze it just as the bag comes out of the tray and it looked (in the blur) like they were really big. I'm no rigger so this is just based upon my gear and my experience but I leave about 1.5-2ft of free line, make the stows under 1" and the locking stows about 1.5". That way there's a clean exit from the tray and the bag doesn't occilate as much overcoming oversized stows."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #13 March 17, 2004 Quote-your bag is slightly too big for your container and the PC had a hard time pulling it free = what I think I see... Then again, it is hardly noticable. But it seems to hesitate slightly with the container already open and pilotchute well on its way. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
USPA 0 #14 March 17, 2004 Maybe, and I'm speculating here... To short bridle?The trouble with skydiving; If you stink at it and continue to jump, you'll die. If you're good at it and continue to jump, you'll see a lot of friends die... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattsplat 0 #15 March 17, 2004 First time I saw a freebag asist Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #16 March 17, 2004 This doesn't relate to the opening, bit it also looks like you might have grabbed your risers way too early. The bag is barely off your back and you are grabbing both shoulders. I'm not sure, but i think you want to just stay stable in boxman until you are pulled upright. (note i'm not an instructor, maybe one tell us if this is correct) and did you do the full twist your back thing to check the chute or did you turn your head? MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffD 0 #17 March 18, 2004 This happend to me on aff2. Normal skydive and at 5k I waved off and pulled, my JM's stayed with me because I fall fast and they didn't want to lose me before I got a deploying parachute. Anyway As I burn through 4k I felt the bag come off and then got 4-5 line twists (not a problem on these tanks we get to fly) I was informed that either a) The PC was old as someone above stated. b) someone else told me that because both JM's held on to me there was too much burble and not enough "clean" air to get enought lift out of the PC to pull the bag out of the container. Since off my training and doing solos, I have never had any problems. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GravityGirl 0 #18 March 18, 2004 I didn't think that Skydive Chicago had Dolphin Student Rigs? Also check the grommet that the closing loop runs through. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Peace and Blue Skies! Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ifics 0 #19 March 18, 2004 QuoteQuote If it was the first thing, it's possible it didn't get enough snatch because the packer (you?) didn't put the little counter-fold in the bridle. Chuck umm... a little clarification please? What little counter fold??? Yes, Do tell.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 4 #20 March 18, 2004 Does your bridle not fold over and mate to a piece of velcro on one either your top main closing flap? Do you not fold a flap of your bridle back under your closing loop when you pack? If not, what do you do with the excess from your grommet to the little piece of velcro? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The111 1 #21 March 18, 2004 Chuck, I understand what fold you're referring to, but do you honestly think that affects snatch force? Maybe I am still missing something, but I would think the only thing that affects snatch force is the distance along the bridle from pin to grommet, and that is fixed, not alterable by packing. Whether the excess is tucked away or not, it's still excess and will be slack until it gets pulled tight right after pin extraction. This process of being "pulled tight" is where the "snatch force" to pull the bag out of the container comes from. EDIT: Been thinking about this some more... as far as I know the purpose of the little velcro square (and "counterfold") is to ensure the pin is able to be pulled. While it is advisable to use the velcro square and make the fold for this reason, once your pin comes out I don't think there's a difference. It will have to travel a certain distance away from your container (along with PC and all bridle above it) before the lower part of the bridle (from pin to grommet) snaps tight. This distance is fixed. The original poster's pin clearly came out since the container was open, so I still don't see how the velcro and fold could have affected that deployment... www.WingsuitPhotos.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fudd 0 #22 March 18, 2004 I think they are talking about the piece of bridle from the pin to the D-bag. Dosn't seem to me like it can be the cause. Looks like the d-bag is tight and the PC is not producing enough drag. Maybe it's somewhere in the burble. I could be wrong ofcorse... There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScubaSteve 0 #23 March 18, 2004 Could the problem be in the toss. If not tossed out far colud it slow due to burble? I can't tell from the vid, but wonder about picking vs. grab and throw. Or is that only matter with ripcords. I am a newb so I have more questions than advice. Hope to see you 26Mar at the AFP refresher Shrubber. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hookitt 1 #24 March 18, 2004 I"ve watched that over and over and paused it several times. I can't tell what it's hung up on. It came out pretty quickly with the assist. In fact that assist was so quick I wonder if the instructor has done that before. The velcro tab thingy is not the issue. The container opened as it was supposed to. The bag was lifted part way then simply stopped as if the pilot chute was collapsed. Since it's a student rig, I'll guess it was not a collapsible pilot chute. How long is the bridle? It should be at least 6 feet from the pin to the bottom of the pilot chute. What size is the pilot chute? If I were to guess only by what I watched in the video, I'd focus on the bridle length and the pilot chute size, type, and condition. If you hold a pilot chute upside down by the end near the bridle, check the length of the centerline. It should extend beyond the skirt of the pilot chute. Beyond that it's hard to say.My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3ringheathen 0 #25 March 19, 2004 Hard to say for certain. The pilot chute might have simply been caught in your burble for a moment, but the pin was pulled, and the bridle looks like it's stretched tight, so I don't think that's it. I think it's unlikely that the bridle is too short, but it's possible. My money is on a pilot chute that's out of trim and needs to be replaced, or a collapsible pilot chute that wasn't fully reset during packing. Most places wouldn't have a collapsible PC on student gear, though. At any rate, don't hesitate to discuss emergency procedures and hypothetical scenarios with your instructors. If I throw my pc and nothing happens, I'm probably going to clear my burble and bump my container with my elbows. If things don't improve really quickly, on to Plan B. Plan on buying beer when you land. -Josh If you have time to panic, you have time to do something more productive. -Me* *Ron has accused me of plagiarizing this quote. He attributes it to Douglas Adams. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
