deadboy2004 0 #1 February 20, 2004 first of all, I have to admit that I deserve all the shit that can be heaped on me because of my stupidity. I did it to myself and will live with it for the rest of my life. I've been skydiving for about 4 years, been a coach for 2 years and doing tandems for the past year. Really enjoy doing tandems and will miss doing them if I can't. Last week I was diagonised as being HIV+. Should I give up being a tandem instructor?? Please don't let this post degenerate into a gay-bashing thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 273 #2 February 20, 2004 Wow, sorry to hear that. My last tandem student was HIV positive. He broke his leg, possibly due in part to the various medications he was on. Luckily it was a closed wound but it got me thinking... My concern for your situation would be if you were to be injured on a tandem and possibly infect your student through blood from your wounds. I can't see that coaching would be a problem; you're not likely to be mixing bodily fluids with someone you're not attached to. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Tink1717 2 #3 February 20, 2004 I have to agree that it's probably a good idea to give up tandems. Close contact and the potential for even a minor open injury would dictate caution. Besides, the potential for damages related to liability could be outrageous.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kitof1976 0 #4 February 20, 2004 Sorry to hear that bro... Personally I wouldn't have a problem going with you on a tandem... But basically what it comes down to is personal choice. Some students will likely not be too hot about jumping and being strapped to some one who is HIV+... but then again it's personal choice. I have a friend who is HIV+ and that never stopped me from hugging her, eating with and interacting normaly. I say that as long as you are honest with the student regarding your condition, and that you feel 100% fit to tandem someone, there are no reasons you should give it up. Honesty is the best policy... "We see the world just the way we are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Samurai136 0 #5 February 20, 2004 Consult a doctor. Maybe the one who gave your FAA medical? <<>> Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites darkwing 5 #6 February 20, 2004 Bummer dude. In defense of your DZ I'd say quit doing tandems. Don't quit skydiving though. Tell your friends, so if you are in an accident things will be handled appropriately. I'd jump with an HIV+ friend. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhillyKev 0 #7 February 20, 2004 Slightly off topic, but....I think you're a prime candidate for the new "Skydivers with Disabilities" section. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottjaco 0 #8 February 20, 2004 When was the last time a tandem master and student exchanged bodily fluids? You are both wearing full body jumpsuits and you are not facing each other, breathing on somones neck isn't going to cause a contraction. AIDS has been with us for over 20 years and there has not been one documented case of someone contracting it in any other way but sexually or intravenous. Do some research. There is no HIV in your saliva. I wouldn't tell anyone that you are HIV positive. NEVER TELL ANYONE AT YOUR DROPZONE!!!! It's just none of anyones buisness. There really is no realistic risk of anyone getting it. The virus is very fragile and dies when exposed to air. There are a lot of ignorant people in this sport and I would hate to see you get tormented by misinformed people. It just isn't fair to yourself. If you want to keep doing Tandems, I say go for it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites boxingrrl 0 #9 February 20, 2004 Wow. Brave of you to bring this up. I have mixed feelings-- coming from a medical background, and being a baby tandem master/DZ staff. I think that your DZO should know. And I hope that they are supportive, regardless of whether you continue to do tandems. The best thing you can do is take care of yourself. What would be best for you and your stress? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #10 February 20, 2004 QuoteWhen was the last time a tandem master and student exchanged bodily fluids Probably the last severly botched landing, or when a student slammed their head back into the TM's nose/mouth, bloodying the TM and the student. It happens. Honestly, I would say no to the tandems, if anything, just out of respect for the DZ. Why do I say that? People are scared of HIV and I've seen folks scared of HIV+ people, thus if word gets out past the jump commnuity, the DZ will most likely loose tandem traffic. That really hurts a DZ. I'm sorry, I don't know who you are, but I'm sorry.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #11 February 20, 2004 I've been luckly enough to have to deal with blood from broken legs before at the DZ. I've seen a TM break their students leg and barely avoid breaking theirs too. Bloody noses and busted lips are pretty common too if the students head hits yours on opening. I personally enjoy doing tandems in shorts and a tee shirt and give all my students the same option all summer.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottjaco 0 #12 February 20, 2004 QuoteProbably the last severly botched landing, or when a student slammed their head back into the TM's nose/mouth, bloodying the TM and the student. Just wear a full face helmet. QuotePeople are scared of HIV and I've seen folks scared of HIV+ people, thus if word gets out past the jump commnuity, the DZ will most likely loose tandem traffic. That really hurts a DZ. That is why you don't go around telling people your personal buisness. Quotejust out of respect for the DZ You are not legally required to tell your employer if you are HIV positive. Since the chances of spreading the desease are soo slim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scottjaco 0 #13 February 20, 2004 QuoteI've been luckly enough to have to deal with blood from broken legs before at the DZ. I've seen a TM break their students leg and barely avoid breaking theirs too. Bloody noses and busted lips are pretty common too if the students head hits yours on opening. I haven't really thought about this scenerio. I guess it could happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pullhigh 0 #14 February 20, 2004 It is my opinion that should make your disease known to anyone that may have to help you in a medical situation. That being said, it is not necessarily everyone's business. I would recommend a bracelet or something. On the issue of tandems, I woul dhave to think that it is your moral responsibilty to not be in that close of contact with anyone where bodily fluids could be exchanged. I am not a doctor, nor an HIV know it all, but from everything I, an average Joe, know, bleeding into another's open wound could infect them and pass the disease on. Whether the threat is that real or not, it is the ASSumed impression that most would have. I can see the law suits flying over that issue. Dude, I hate it for you, and only wish the best for you. They've come a long way in the study of your disease, so never give up hope. Ganja Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stl135 0 #15 February 20, 2004 ))))))BEST VIBES((((((( I agree with the last post. I have friends on same condition and it's best to be honest about it. Be good, be safe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites johnny1488 1 #16 February 20, 2004 Its not directly related, but my GF recently got her CPR certificate, and she wants to try to get a bunch of kits on the dz consisting of rubber gloves and a mouth guard. It only takes a few seconds to protect yourself from bloodborne pathigens (whatever they are) and it can save you a lot of grief. She now caries a kit in her car where ever she goes. She also wanted to get a defib for the dz and her car. In the long run its relatively cheap for a dz and could easily save a life. Now someone can get back to the topic if they like. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #17 February 20, 2004 Did you see this in my post: Quote Probably the last severly botched landing Have you ever seen anyone bust their legs up? I'm guessing not since you haven't been in the sport long. It can happen, it can happen easily with tandems. There's more to it then I think you realize. QuoteYou are not legally required to tell your employer if you are HIV positive. Read what I said above. Honestly, this is a sport in which it is realively likely that if you get hurt, you will have a bone sticking out of your skin. I tend to help people when they hook themselves in (best I can) or hurt themselves, I know sure as fuck that if someone on my DZ was HIV+ and we didn't know about it, that other folks would be very high risk for becoming infected if they got hurt. Lets use some real people. Myself, the DZO and the head instructor. I get HIV from an open wound, trying to stop bleeding. I give it to my fiance. That's 2. The DZO gets it from helping stop bleeding, he gives it to his wife. Their kids get scraped up and they accidently give it to their 2 young kids. That's 4 more The head instructor is cutting off the jumpsuit so we can try to stop bleeding. He cuts himself and gets blood mixed. He gives it to his girlfriend. That's 2 more. Can you possibly see what I'm talking about?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cvfd1399 0 #18 February 20, 2004 Although it is a serious illness, it is hard to get it by contact from an injury. Contracting it by being stuck by an infected needle is only 3 per 1000 injuries. A splash in the eye only has 1-1000 risk of contracting. In a teaspoon of blood there are only a few particles of aids virus in the blood. Take the same teaspoon and put any form of hepatitis in it and it will contain average 50,000 particles of hep. also hep can live out the body for over 7 days, even more in an ideal condition. Everyone makes mistakes, and I could care less if anyone is gay. My only advise is to just minimize the risk of getting hurt, and think of informing tandem passengers before hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Michele 1 #19 February 20, 2004 Quote I have to admit that I deserve all the shit that can be heaped on me because of my stupidity No. You have an illness. You do not deserve any shit - heaped, piled, thrown, slid, or any other manner of delivery - at all. You are not bad. You are not stupid. You are human, frail and strong just like the rest of us. You made a mistake. Others make other kinds of mistakes, just as deadly. DB, in your courage, I find the lesson...after all, life and death as part of our sport, and as part of our lives in this world. One of the situations I can clearly recall are two sports figures who are HIV+ - Magic Johnson and Greg Louganis. Both had one hell of a decision to come forward, and demonstrated courage by doing so...as do you. I have never done a tandem...so I can't speak to that. But how about doing the training to be an AFF instructor? I would think that the potential body fluid exchange - minor at best during a tandem - would be even farther more removed with AFF instruction. Or perhaps learning how to teach Static line, if that's what your dz offers. In this way, you are still able to teach - and share the sky and your aliveness while in it with students, and you are protecting the dz and students in the far flung possibilty of body fluid exchange. It's just my opinion, however, and as nothing more than a newbie in the sport, I am not sure how much it helps. Thanks for having amazing courage. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Jimbo 0 #20 February 20, 2004 QuoteWhen was the last time a tandem master and student exchanged bodily fluids? You are both wearing full body jumpsuits and you are not facing each other, breathing on somones neck isn't going to cause a contraction. Considering the consequences in the event of an accident, I think he's right to be asking questions, and cautious. I saw an accident last year where the tandem master came down with a pretty bloody nose from smashing his face into the back of the student on exit. I'm not sure what the back of the student's head looked like. QuoteI wouldn't tell anyone that you are HIV positive. NEVER TELL ANYONE AT YOUR DROPZONE!!!! It's just none of anyones buisness. There really is no realistic risk of anyone getting it. I disagree. Again, considering the consequences of that one in a million chance, I think telling people is the right thing to do. I congratulate deadboy2004 for accepting his fate and having the courage to tell others. QuoteIf you want to keep doing Tandems, I say go for it! I wouldn't. But hey, there's still AFF, coaching, and fun jumps. Right? Good luck DB. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casquito 0 #21 February 20, 2004 Don't give up jumping. Don't give up tandems. Don't take any shit from anyone. You don't have to tell anyone. As quoted above, the HIV transmission rates are far below 1% with a needle stick. Not just a needlestick, but a USED, HOLLOW needle that was used in a blood vessel (not subcutaneously or intramuscularly) that penetrates deep enough into the skin to draw blood. Just for comparison, the transmission rates for hepatitis B and C are orders of magnitude higher, yet you don't see people refusing to jump with someone who has hepatitis. Hell, most people would shrug their shoulders and not even care. Why the big deal about HIV? It's the social stigma attached to it, borne of ignorance and fear. I work in the the ER and see far more people dying of hepatitis than HIV. Personally, I'd rather get stuck with a needle from an HIV infected patient than someone with hepatitis. Transmitting it to your tandem student: pretty unlikely. You'd both have to have open wounds that are protruding through the suits. And if it happens, they can always take antiviral meds prophylactically to reduce the transmission rate from slim to infintesimal. Do you want to sacrifice your skydiving career and potentially make yourself an outcast by telling everyone (since from the responses to your question in this forum seem to confirm the popular misconception of the disease). As far as telling people, I wouldn't. It's none of their business. If they're worried about contracting some disease, they shouldn't be helping people. It's a risk you take. Besides, they should be using universal precautions anyway and using gloves. Even so, if you augered in and needed my help immediately, I'd help you, with or without gloves any day brother. Joe N. Oh, and most fractures are closed, not open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites burbleflyer 0 #22 February 20, 2004 Yep. I f there is one small chance you could transmit the disease to your passenger, and there is, you owe it to them. You ever see someone bleed in freefall? Its a mess. Even from a slight wound or bloody nose and it happens all the time. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Casquito 0 #23 February 20, 2004 Maybe we should tell everyone with hepatitis to report their condition to the DZO. And those with cold sores (which is Herpes, no matter what anyone says about it) since it's infectious. And any history of gonorrhea and chlamydia too, since you know, there is alot of latent disease that doesn't get cured with the first course of antibiotics. And anyone with a cold, since you know, there's that whole "SARS" thing going around... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites firstime 0 #24 February 20, 2004 Bravo Scott, I could not have said it better. I am not gay but because of friends and family I know quite a bit on the subject and SCOTT IS RIGHT ON TARGET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #25 February 20, 2004 This is from the CDC. I'm only going to post quotes, since the entire thing is long. The URL is below for the full page of reading. QuoteIn the health care setting, workers have been infected with HIV after being stuck with needles containing HIV-infected blood or, less frequently, after infected blood gets into a worker’s open cut or a mucous membrane (for example, the eyes or inside of the nose). QuoteTo prevent even such rare occurrences, precautions, as described in previously published guidelines, should be taken in all settings "including the home" to prevent exposures to the blood of persons who are HIV infected, at risk for HIV infection, or whose infection and risk status are unknown. For example, --Gloves should be worn during contact with blood or other body fluids that could possibly contain visible blood, such as urine, feces, or vomit. --Cuts, sores, or breaks on both the care giver’s and patient’s exposed skin should be covered with bandages. --Hands and other parts of the body should be washed immediately after contact with blood or other body fluids, and surfaces soiled with blood should be disinfected appropriately. --Practices that increase the likelihood of blood contact, such as sharing of razors and toothbrushes, should be avoided. --Needles and other sharp instruments should be used only when medically necessary and handled according to recommendations for health-care settings. (Do not put caps back on needles by hand or remove needles from syringes. Dispose of needles in puncture-proof containers http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/transmission.htm So why would the CDC talk about transmission in similar manners that could occur while acting as a TM, if it wasn't a possibility. DB, I'm sorry bro, I really am, I don't think you should stop jumping, I just think that being a TM would be a bad idea. Although I think you should continue to instruct, using all the other ratings! Michele said the words of support best, so I can't even try, I'll just say I agree with what she said!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Tink1717 2 #3 February 20, 2004 I have to agree that it's probably a good idea to give up tandems. Close contact and the potential for even a minor open injury would dictate caution. Besides, the potential for damages related to liability could be outrageous.Skydivers don't knock on Death's door. They ring the bell and runaway... It really pisses him off. -The World Famous Tink. (I never heard of you either!!) AA #2069 ASA#33 POPS#8808 Swooo 1717 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kitof1976 0 #4 February 20, 2004 Sorry to hear that bro... Personally I wouldn't have a problem going with you on a tandem... But basically what it comes down to is personal choice. Some students will likely not be too hot about jumping and being strapped to some one who is HIV+... but then again it's personal choice. I have a friend who is HIV+ and that never stopped me from hugging her, eating with and interacting normaly. I say that as long as you are honest with the student regarding your condition, and that you feel 100% fit to tandem someone, there are no reasons you should give it up. Honesty is the best policy... "We see the world just the way we are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Samurai136 0 #5 February 20, 2004 Consult a doctor. Maybe the one who gave your FAA medical? <<>> Ken"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 5 #6 February 20, 2004 Bummer dude. In defense of your DZ I'd say quit doing tandems. Don't quit skydiving though. Tell your friends, so if you are in an accident things will be handled appropriately. I'd jump with an HIV+ friend. -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #7 February 20, 2004 Slightly off topic, but....I think you're a prime candidate for the new "Skydivers with Disabilities" section. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #8 February 20, 2004 When was the last time a tandem master and student exchanged bodily fluids? You are both wearing full body jumpsuits and you are not facing each other, breathing on somones neck isn't going to cause a contraction. AIDS has been with us for over 20 years and there has not been one documented case of someone contracting it in any other way but sexually or intravenous. Do some research. There is no HIV in your saliva. I wouldn't tell anyone that you are HIV positive. NEVER TELL ANYONE AT YOUR DROPZONE!!!! It's just none of anyones buisness. There really is no realistic risk of anyone getting it. The virus is very fragile and dies when exposed to air. There are a lot of ignorant people in this sport and I would hate to see you get tormented by misinformed people. It just isn't fair to yourself. If you want to keep doing Tandems, I say go for it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boxingrrl 0 #9 February 20, 2004 Wow. Brave of you to bring this up. I have mixed feelings-- coming from a medical background, and being a baby tandem master/DZ staff. I think that your DZO should know. And I hope that they are supportive, regardless of whether you continue to do tandems. The best thing you can do is take care of yourself. What would be best for you and your stress? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #10 February 20, 2004 QuoteWhen was the last time a tandem master and student exchanged bodily fluids Probably the last severly botched landing, or when a student slammed their head back into the TM's nose/mouth, bloodying the TM and the student. It happens. Honestly, I would say no to the tandems, if anything, just out of respect for the DZ. Why do I say that? People are scared of HIV and I've seen folks scared of HIV+ people, thus if word gets out past the jump commnuity, the DZ will most likely loose tandem traffic. That really hurts a DZ. I'm sorry, I don't know who you are, but I'm sorry.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #11 February 20, 2004 I've been luckly enough to have to deal with blood from broken legs before at the DZ. I've seen a TM break their students leg and barely avoid breaking theirs too. Bloody noses and busted lips are pretty common too if the students head hits yours on opening. I personally enjoy doing tandems in shorts and a tee shirt and give all my students the same option all summer.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #12 February 20, 2004 QuoteProbably the last severly botched landing, or when a student slammed their head back into the TM's nose/mouth, bloodying the TM and the student. Just wear a full face helmet. QuotePeople are scared of HIV and I've seen folks scared of HIV+ people, thus if word gets out past the jump commnuity, the DZ will most likely loose tandem traffic. That really hurts a DZ. That is why you don't go around telling people your personal buisness. Quotejust out of respect for the DZ You are not legally required to tell your employer if you are HIV positive. Since the chances of spreading the desease are soo slim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scottjaco 0 #13 February 20, 2004 QuoteI've been luckly enough to have to deal with blood from broken legs before at the DZ. I've seen a TM break their students leg and barely avoid breaking theirs too. Bloody noses and busted lips are pretty common too if the students head hits yours on opening. I haven't really thought about this scenerio. I guess it could happen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pullhigh 0 #14 February 20, 2004 It is my opinion that should make your disease known to anyone that may have to help you in a medical situation. That being said, it is not necessarily everyone's business. I would recommend a bracelet or something. On the issue of tandems, I woul dhave to think that it is your moral responsibilty to not be in that close of contact with anyone where bodily fluids could be exchanged. I am not a doctor, nor an HIV know it all, but from everything I, an average Joe, know, bleeding into another's open wound could infect them and pass the disease on. Whether the threat is that real or not, it is the ASSumed impression that most would have. I can see the law suits flying over that issue. Dude, I hate it for you, and only wish the best for you. They've come a long way in the study of your disease, so never give up hope. Ganja Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stl135 0 #15 February 20, 2004 ))))))BEST VIBES((((((( I agree with the last post. I have friends on same condition and it's best to be honest about it. Be good, be safe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #16 February 20, 2004 Its not directly related, but my GF recently got her CPR certificate, and she wants to try to get a bunch of kits on the dz consisting of rubber gloves and a mouth guard. It only takes a few seconds to protect yourself from bloodborne pathigens (whatever they are) and it can save you a lot of grief. She now caries a kit in her car where ever she goes. She also wanted to get a defib for the dz and her car. In the long run its relatively cheap for a dz and could easily save a life. Now someone can get back to the topic if they like. Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #17 February 20, 2004 Did you see this in my post: Quote Probably the last severly botched landing Have you ever seen anyone bust their legs up? I'm guessing not since you haven't been in the sport long. It can happen, it can happen easily with tandems. There's more to it then I think you realize. QuoteYou are not legally required to tell your employer if you are HIV positive. Read what I said above. Honestly, this is a sport in which it is realively likely that if you get hurt, you will have a bone sticking out of your skin. I tend to help people when they hook themselves in (best I can) or hurt themselves, I know sure as fuck that if someone on my DZ was HIV+ and we didn't know about it, that other folks would be very high risk for becoming infected if they got hurt. Lets use some real people. Myself, the DZO and the head instructor. I get HIV from an open wound, trying to stop bleeding. I give it to my fiance. That's 2. The DZO gets it from helping stop bleeding, he gives it to his wife. Their kids get scraped up and they accidently give it to their 2 young kids. That's 4 more The head instructor is cutting off the jumpsuit so we can try to stop bleeding. He cuts himself and gets blood mixed. He gives it to his girlfriend. That's 2 more. Can you possibly see what I'm talking about?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cvfd1399 0 #18 February 20, 2004 Although it is a serious illness, it is hard to get it by contact from an injury. Contracting it by being stuck by an infected needle is only 3 per 1000 injuries. A splash in the eye only has 1-1000 risk of contracting. In a teaspoon of blood there are only a few particles of aids virus in the blood. Take the same teaspoon and put any form of hepatitis in it and it will contain average 50,000 particles of hep. also hep can live out the body for over 7 days, even more in an ideal condition. Everyone makes mistakes, and I could care less if anyone is gay. My only advise is to just minimize the risk of getting hurt, and think of informing tandem passengers before hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Michele 1 #19 February 20, 2004 Quote I have to admit that I deserve all the shit that can be heaped on me because of my stupidity No. You have an illness. You do not deserve any shit - heaped, piled, thrown, slid, or any other manner of delivery - at all. You are not bad. You are not stupid. You are human, frail and strong just like the rest of us. You made a mistake. Others make other kinds of mistakes, just as deadly. DB, in your courage, I find the lesson...after all, life and death as part of our sport, and as part of our lives in this world. One of the situations I can clearly recall are two sports figures who are HIV+ - Magic Johnson and Greg Louganis. Both had one hell of a decision to come forward, and demonstrated courage by doing so...as do you. I have never done a tandem...so I can't speak to that. But how about doing the training to be an AFF instructor? I would think that the potential body fluid exchange - minor at best during a tandem - would be even farther more removed with AFF instruction. Or perhaps learning how to teach Static line, if that's what your dz offers. In this way, you are still able to teach - and share the sky and your aliveness while in it with students, and you are protecting the dz and students in the far flung possibilty of body fluid exchange. It's just my opinion, however, and as nothing more than a newbie in the sport, I am not sure how much it helps. Thanks for having amazing courage. Ciels- Michele ~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek While our hearts lie bleeding?~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jimbo 0 #20 February 20, 2004 QuoteWhen was the last time a tandem master and student exchanged bodily fluids? You are both wearing full body jumpsuits and you are not facing each other, breathing on somones neck isn't going to cause a contraction. Considering the consequences in the event of an accident, I think he's right to be asking questions, and cautious. I saw an accident last year where the tandem master came down with a pretty bloody nose from smashing his face into the back of the student on exit. I'm not sure what the back of the student's head looked like. QuoteI wouldn't tell anyone that you are HIV positive. NEVER TELL ANYONE AT YOUR DROPZONE!!!! It's just none of anyones buisness. There really is no realistic risk of anyone getting it. I disagree. Again, considering the consequences of that one in a million chance, I think telling people is the right thing to do. I congratulate deadboy2004 for accepting his fate and having the courage to tell others. QuoteIf you want to keep doing Tandems, I say go for it! I wouldn't. But hey, there's still AFF, coaching, and fun jumps. Right? Good luck DB. - Jim"Like" - The modern day comma Good bye, my friends. You are missed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casquito 0 #21 February 20, 2004 Don't give up jumping. Don't give up tandems. Don't take any shit from anyone. You don't have to tell anyone. As quoted above, the HIV transmission rates are far below 1% with a needle stick. Not just a needlestick, but a USED, HOLLOW needle that was used in a blood vessel (not subcutaneously or intramuscularly) that penetrates deep enough into the skin to draw blood. Just for comparison, the transmission rates for hepatitis B and C are orders of magnitude higher, yet you don't see people refusing to jump with someone who has hepatitis. Hell, most people would shrug their shoulders and not even care. Why the big deal about HIV? It's the social stigma attached to it, borne of ignorance and fear. I work in the the ER and see far more people dying of hepatitis than HIV. Personally, I'd rather get stuck with a needle from an HIV infected patient than someone with hepatitis. Transmitting it to your tandem student: pretty unlikely. You'd both have to have open wounds that are protruding through the suits. And if it happens, they can always take antiviral meds prophylactically to reduce the transmission rate from slim to infintesimal. Do you want to sacrifice your skydiving career and potentially make yourself an outcast by telling everyone (since from the responses to your question in this forum seem to confirm the popular misconception of the disease). As far as telling people, I wouldn't. It's none of their business. If they're worried about contracting some disease, they shouldn't be helping people. It's a risk you take. Besides, they should be using universal precautions anyway and using gloves. Even so, if you augered in and needed my help immediately, I'd help you, with or without gloves any day brother. Joe N. Oh, and most fractures are closed, not open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
burbleflyer 0 #22 February 20, 2004 Yep. I f there is one small chance you could transmit the disease to your passenger, and there is, you owe it to them. You ever see someone bleed in freefall? Its a mess. Even from a slight wound or bloody nose and it happens all the time. Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Casquito 0 #23 February 20, 2004 Maybe we should tell everyone with hepatitis to report their condition to the DZO. And those with cold sores (which is Herpes, no matter what anyone says about it) since it's infectious. And any history of gonorrhea and chlamydia too, since you know, there is alot of latent disease that doesn't get cured with the first course of antibiotics. And anyone with a cold, since you know, there's that whole "SARS" thing going around... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #24 February 20, 2004 Bravo Scott, I could not have said it better. I am not gay but because of friends and family I know quite a bit on the subject and SCOTT IS RIGHT ON TARGET Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #25 February 20, 2004 This is from the CDC. I'm only going to post quotes, since the entire thing is long. The URL is below for the full page of reading. QuoteIn the health care setting, workers have been infected with HIV after being stuck with needles containing HIV-infected blood or, less frequently, after infected blood gets into a worker’s open cut or a mucous membrane (for example, the eyes or inside of the nose). QuoteTo prevent even such rare occurrences, precautions, as described in previously published guidelines, should be taken in all settings "including the home" to prevent exposures to the blood of persons who are HIV infected, at risk for HIV infection, or whose infection and risk status are unknown. For example, --Gloves should be worn during contact with blood or other body fluids that could possibly contain visible blood, such as urine, feces, or vomit. --Cuts, sores, or breaks on both the care giver’s and patient’s exposed skin should be covered with bandages. --Hands and other parts of the body should be washed immediately after contact with blood or other body fluids, and surfaces soiled with blood should be disinfected appropriately. --Practices that increase the likelihood of blood contact, such as sharing of razors and toothbrushes, should be avoided. --Needles and other sharp instruments should be used only when medically necessary and handled according to recommendations for health-care settings. (Do not put caps back on needles by hand or remove needles from syringes. Dispose of needles in puncture-proof containers http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/facts/transmission.htm So why would the CDC talk about transmission in similar manners that could occur while acting as a TM, if it wasn't a possibility. DB, I'm sorry bro, I really am, I don't think you should stop jumping, I just think that being a TM would be a bad idea. Although I think you should continue to instruct, using all the other ratings! Michele said the words of support best, so I can't even try, I'll just say I agree with what she said!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
