skyslammer 0 #1 December 29, 2003 I am an AFF Student, and I am determined to get this, I am 15 jumps and still on aff level 5. It's due to bad body position. I just recently went to a wind tunnel and same thing happened. I jump out fine, do my prct touch and toe taps then the instructor releases and it seems fine, i try to gain a heading but this slow turn starts to happen and i am unable to stop it. I know what the problem is. I have video of myself but in my mind i feel as if i am doing it but on video my knees are too far apart, my pelvis isn't down enough and my arms are too far back. And until i went to the wind tunnel i wasn't told to point my toes which seemed to help more. Is there any help anyone can give me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 December 29, 2003 Step 1. Talk to your instructor(s), they are the ones that are there and see what you're doing. Everyone else (here and even jumpers on your very own DZ) can try to give you advice, BUT in the end you should do what your instructors tell you. You don't know the experience of the other folks giving you advice and you might get bad or even dangerous advice. With that said think about these couple things. 1. Relax: Take some deep breaths before you exit, besure to breath while in freefall. That will help more then you know. 2. Arch: Push your hips forward. This will come naturally if you will relax. Basically, since you're doing toe taps and you're doing good enough that your instructor is releasing you, then your problem starts, it sounds like you just need to take a deep breath, relax and arch. Once again, talk to your instructors about any advice that you get!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Luv2Fall 0 #3 December 29, 2003 Take it for what it is worth from a 77 Jump Wonder.............I failed C-2 four times (1 JM Release) due to spinning problems...........for me it boiled down to one thing....not relaxing. Once I started breathing deeply before and at the door and did not spin on that fifth try..............I never had that problem again. Relax, relax, relax. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
elfanie 0 #4 December 29, 2003 And take my reply for what it's worth....my own personal experience that shouldn't be given very much weight... I had a spinning problem on ASP3 (the first time I was released and falling solo). repeated ASP3...same spin. ASP4...same spin. What it was for ME...was trying to control the turn with my ARMS (dipping my elbow)...and not with my shoulders. The first time I thought about consciously controlling my rotation with my SHOULDERS, I nailed it. My JM even had my jump with another JM to see if he could figure out why I was spinning and having so much stability issues when it came to controlling my rotation. I have never had the priviledge of trying a wind tunnel...I bet that is helpful. -------------------------------------------- Elfanie My Skydiving Page Fly Safe - Soft Landings Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Synapse 0 #5 December 29, 2003 By no means am I very experienced, so don't take this as professional advice or anything. I had similar problems after my JMs released me on my AFF level 3, except my problem was an uncontrolled spin, and after having that happen just once I decided to stop until I could get some time in a tunnel. Putting myself into another spin just seemed like an unnecessary risk when I'm within a 5 hour drive of a tunnel. I hooked up with Skydive University in FL and went through their wind tunnel AFF course that gives you 20 minutes in the tunnel before you make your first jump with them. After doing that I had no problem at all with uncontrolled movements in freefall, not to mention the entire experience of the training was better since I didn't have to focus so hard on trying to fix problems with my body positioning. If you live close to FL or if someone else near you offers such a program I would highly recommend it. Just curious... how long were u in the tunnel and did you have someone there that was aware of your problems and trying to help you out with them? -synThey who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shark 0 #6 December 29, 2003 QuoteIs there any help anyone can give me. Yes, get more tunnel time. It is a great tool. I've already had 2 students go through with excellent results. We put another guy through yesterday afternoon, and already we can see a big improvement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #7 December 29, 2003 According to your profile, you live in Brea. . .May I suggest a trip to the Perris Wind Tunnel. . .tunnel time is booked out a week in advance so give it a try and see if they can help you there with turns and body position to keep you stable. . .of course I am no expert and am still doing AFF myself. . .so your best advice will come from your instructors. . .relax, breath, and dirt dive your jump until you are comfortable getting in the plane to go. . .________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
happythoughts 0 #8 December 29, 2003 Having your knees too far apart will naturally make your pelvis tilt, so you de-arch. That, by itself, won't cause the turn. Look at the video and see if your head is doing something. Where you look, you go. That could cause a small turn. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks 0 #9 December 30, 2003 relax... arch.. it is very improtant that you arch.. it is hard to start a turn and easy to stop it when you have a very good hard arch... but relaxed it is very easy to start a turn but very dificult to stop it if your not arching... fix the arch first.. then relax... then once you get that down and only then... is when you should work on your arm and leg position..... one thing at a time.... arch relax ... Quotemy pelvis isn't down enough and i bet that is the root of the entire problem.... when the turn starts it is going to be very difficult for you to correct it if your not arching...... if you arch first i bet the turn will almost compleatly stop... and if it doesnt the arch will make it very easy for you to stop... later.. Mark p.s. .. ask your instructors... lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #10 December 30, 2003 Lot's of students have this problem. I'm not an instructor, so take my advice with a grain of salt. I don't mean to give dangerous advice, but I've often wondered if learning how to do a turn the other way might help. It would certainly bring you out of a spin. Practicing in the wind tunnel would be an excellent idea. Opening your main when you are in a spin isn't good. I watched a guy, back in the 70's, who had a spinning problem. He was doing longer and longer delays and his spinning wasn't getting any better. One day he openned in such a fast spin, that his main turned into a streamer. He wasn't trained in how to do a cut away and just went for the belly reserve that I loaned him. He burned a bunch of holes in it as it deployed against the streamering main.....but he did survive. A wind tunnel would be a great place to practice and get the bugs worked out in my opinion.......Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #11 December 30, 2003 Relax. You're too tense. Keep your nose pointed on an object on the horizon. Sounds like performance anxiety to me. Being to fixated on what you did in the past causing it to happen again. Relax. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GraficO 0 #12 December 30, 2003 As a former Instructor/Jumpmaster one of the things that I ran into with students that had a slow turn had nothing to do with their arms and legs. Had nothing to do with how relaxed they were and it only showed up in video... they had one hip lower than the other one. I saw this several times especially with women... but I did see it with men as well. The rest of their body was symetrical but with one hip cocked, it changes the presentation surface of the body just enough that it can induce a slow turn. On your next tunnel jaunt, you may want to mention that as something for your tunnel master to look for as well. Something to think about... GraficOGraficO "A Mind is a terrible thing to taste." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littlestranger 0 #13 December 30, 2003 My issue was a slow turn to the left when I tracked due to one leg being slightly bent at the knee. Several coaches worked with me on a creeper, transitioning from the arch to track position, over and over...this seems to have solved my problem, and it feels natural to me now. It's alot cheaper than tunnel time! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #14 December 30, 2003 Just try to relax. If you begin to turn in one direction, just turn the other way. If you have a slow turn to the left, just dip your right shoulder a bit till it stops. How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyslammer 0 #15 December 31, 2003 Thanks for all of your advice, I went to Perris. They recently opened up the tunnel, and i seem to have corrected my spinning problems. The last thing i have to work on is my arms. My arms were going behind my head and someone told me that was because i was arching with my chest instead of my back and hips and that i needed to keep them parallel with my body. So hopefully on my next dive i'll be able to work that out. And thanks again for all the advice, I'll let you know how it goes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
