jlmiracle 7 #76 February 6, 2004 Quote Question for you... do you really "not have fun skydiving anymore" because some people are getting benefits? So the reason you had fun in the sport before was cheap gear? Yes it has sucked some of the fun out. I guess its more the attitude you get from alot (not all) of those freebie people. I guess that is what my big grip here is, I see too many that get it and aren't doing anything but jumping it. They are not actively going out of their way to talk to new jumpers or anyone about the rig or canopy, I don't see them giving back to the sport. Since the manufacturers are okay with all that, I guess I HAVE to be okay with it. I am now a conformist.Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #77 February 6, 2004 QuoteMuch of the confusion is caused by jumpers who "stretch the truth" about their level of sponsorship. Many jumpers are only "loaned" demo canopies, but by the time they have finished bragging about how great they are and how their **** does not stink, you would think that the canopy manufacturer had given they three compete sets of gear, flown them to the world meet, put them up in a hotel, wined and dined them, paid them a salary, provided tonnes of blow, hookers, etc. ...... Truth is, unless you wear medals from a world meet, your sponsorship will probably not exceed best-dealer discount. Thanks Rob, I forget how much we are like fisherman, with the tall tales. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weegegirl 2 #78 February 6, 2004 QuoteQuote Question for you... do you really "not have fun skydiving anymore" because some people are getting benefits? So the reason you had fun in the sport before was cheap gear? Yes it has sucked some of the fun out. I guess its more the attitude you get from alot (not all) of those freebie people. I guess that is what my big grip here is, I see too many that get it and aren't doing anything but jumping it. They are not actively going out of their way to talk to new jumpers or anyone about the rig or canopy, I don't see them giving back to the sport. Since the manufacturers are okay with all that, I guess I HAVE to be okay with it. I am now a conformist. I see how some people could dirty the picture, but in my experience (which is only a couple of years now), the people I know who are sponsored by gear manufacturers have generously given me great information on the gear they represent. They are priceless and irreplaceable in our community if you ask me. For example, I spent this New Years at SoBe in FL. Someone with a connection to Wings took a good ammount of time out of his day to lay our several rigs... javelin, mirage, wings, vector, etc... to give me a detailed description of the benefts/non-benefits of each one. It helped me to make an informed decision on what to buy. For someone purchasing their second rig, I couldn't have made a decision without that assistance. I see where you are coming from, but you have to remember that for every sponsored loser, their are like five sponsored jumpers willing to go out of their way to help people grow and learn in the sport. That's enough from me. On with the debate... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #79 February 6, 2004 QuoteMuch of the confusion is caused by jumpers who "stretch the truth" about their level of sponsorship. Many jumpers are only "loaned" demo canopies, but by the time they have finished bragging about how great they are and how their **** does not stink, you would think that the canopy manufacturer had given they three compete sets of gear, flown them to the world meet, put them up in a hotel, wined and dined them, paid them a salary, provided tonnes of blow, hookers, etc. ...... Thats not how it works? Thats it I quit. Whats the point if you can't get all that stuff? True....Most "sponsorships" are just loaners. However in a great number of those, after a good year where you did some good things, I have known a few comapnies to let the person keep the gear. But at times they will ask for it back, or offer to sell it to the person cheap. But this issue is why should Skydiving be any different that the other sports in the world? I know folks in several other sports that get free stuff for almost any reason. Its just how marketing works."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #80 February 6, 2004 QuoteMore effective marketing (at least what would attract me) would be for the manufacture to show up at a dz's around the country with demo's and I know some do that and they should do more of it. It sold me on the Odyssey Yes, but I also know folks that want to jump what Airspeed jumps. Different tactics for different people. Part of the sponsorship gig is to promote the gear, not just jump it. Notice that on every Jump suit thread on here I thrown in Michigans name? Well yes, I have suit, and its part of my duty to pitch it...But I REALLY believe in the product...Or I would not jump it. In Zhills there is a very large % of jumpers jumping Mikes suits....Of the 4way teams there on the DZ last year...I think they ALL had Mikes suits. And this is a DZ that you can have a bad spot and land at Tony's shop. There are several reasons for that: 1. Mike makes a damn good suit. 2. Mike flies over about twice a mth to measure folks, and bring suits and just hang out at the DZ. 3. The RW coaches on the DZ wear Michigans. 4. The top team at the DZ last year all but one guy had Mikes suits. This is why Mike has his foot in the door at a DZ that traditionaly was owned by Tony. Like it or not, giving gear to folks does work...Or they would not do it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #81 February 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteMuch of the confusion is caused by jumpers who "stretch the truth" about their level of sponsorship. Ron, I liked Riggerrob's response. It gave me bettering feelings about sponsorships. I'm going with what he said so I don't get so upset about it anymore. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skynole 0 #82 February 6, 2004 I was told by someone that a select few of SunPath sponsored athletes not only get free rigs, but also receive endorsement money for jumping Javelins. Can anyone verify that? Note: I have no problem with sponsored jumpers and the the affect it has on gear prices. Like has been stated previously, that's no different than any other sport, or any product for that matter. FULLY sponsored jumpers have made many sacrifices and have dedicated so much to be at the top of their discipline(s)...and I have nothing but respect for that. That kind of dedication in any other major sport, more times than not, results in MUCH, MUCH more. Look at LeBron James...he hadn't played one second yet in the NBA and he already had millions in endorsements and sponsorships. I know that's an extreme example but you guys get my point. So if gear manufacturers want to give people free stuff to the one's who have put forth so much effort into the sport we all love (and receive an endorsement check, if that's the case...), that's totally fine by me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #83 February 6, 2004 Well since we are talking about who is picking up the bill...maybe this would be a good time to mention: donations gladly accepted here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jlmiracle 7 #84 February 6, 2004 QuoteWell since we are talking about who is picking up the bill...maybe this would be a good time to mention: donations gladly accepted here Excellent segway BB, and thanks for the reminder. Making my way there now. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #85 February 6, 2004 QuoteExcellent segway BB, and thanks for the reminder. Making my way there now. Thanks Judy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumpwally 0 #86 February 6, 2004 And the bottom line is, get this now,, An owner gets to do what ever he pleases. Don't forget its America still. If you can create a frenzy of "i want one too" well thats the idea, it happens all day everyday on every product you can think of. All i smell here is sour grapes. wallysmile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites stoneycase 0 #87 February 7, 2004 I wish I could remember the guy's name that I spoke with, but he said, as best I can remember, "It'll be around early 2004". That would have been a leadtime of around 4 months minimum. From everyone I've talked to about leadtimes (when I was searching for gear, which was Aug '03) I was told the average wait time from Sunpath and Mirage was anywhere from 10-12 weeks. I'd be interested to put in a call to all the major manufacturers and record their leadtimes here in this thread... any takers?? who's got free LD or time to kill? but I guess that would be for a different day and different thread.Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #88 February 7, 2004 >I was told the average wait time from Sunpath and Mirage was anywhere from 10-12 weeks. You must not have talked to anyone about gear since the start of '03 then with dates like that. Sunpath has been at a 18-25 week delay since at least May of last year. Mirage is averaging 6-10 weeks. Velocity Sports has averaged 5-9, Sunrise is at 3-8 depending on volume. Altico is about a week, with Relative Workshop and Jumpshack is at 4-6. Any major gear store can quote those off the top of their heads they are asked about so often. I checked about a month ago and those were the dates then.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #89 February 7, 2004 Quote>I was told the average wait time from Sunpath and Mirage was anywhere from 10-12 weeks. You must not have talked to anyone about gear since the start of '03 then with dates like that. Sunpath has been at a 18-25 week delay since at least May of last year. Mirage is averaging 6-10 weeks. Velocity Sports has averaged 5-9, Sunrise is at 3-8 depending on volume. Altico is about a week, with Relative Workshop and Jumpshack is at 4-6. Any major gear store can quote those off the top of their heads they are asked about so often. Once again, the man with the info. Gear nazi. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdweller 0 #90 February 7, 2004 > Because skydiving used to be alot of fun until it got so commercialized. < so go do somethung else.------------------------------------------------------ "From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sdgregory 0 #91 February 8, 2004 QuoteI wonder if some of it has to do with the fact that there really isn't a large amount of people buying new containers when you look at the size of the skydiving community and the amount of resales of used equipment in the industry. In addition, once people do buy something new, I think they tend to hang onto it for awhile. This seems to be the most logical reason for the high price. Most beginning skydivers that I have seen do not have the money to spend on a new rig, new canopy, new reserve, new cypress II, etc. I was just looking at a custom Mirage G4 with the colors I want and the options I would like, just to price it and man just the container was $2,462 without tax and shipping. Now through in my main and reserve and well duh, as you all know better than me, I am looking at well over 5.5K. I got my G3 with reserve and cypress for 2600 plus 1000 for my main. Used gear market has definitely got to be slowing new rig sales. Out of curiosity, have you guys that have been in a while seen prices dropping as more people join the sport? What do you predict rig prices to be doing over the next five or ten years? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 20 #92 February 8, 2004 QuoteWhat do you predict rig prices to be doing over the next five or ten years? Continue to rise. Gear makers have a lot of overhead and not a lot of market. Every order has to be custom made, and there is no market for excess stock. That and the ever increasing labor increases plus liability conserns make it hard to lower prices and make a profit. 5 years ago the base price on a Javelin was 1350, today the same container is 1750. Thats $400 in 5 years... QuotePrice Increase Takes Effect Sun Path Products, Inc. would like to inform our customers that as of September 1st 2003 we have implemented a price increase on our range of products and services. We would like to add that this price increase is necessary due to the continuing, rising costs of materials and other business related areas. Sun Path Products, Inc. has strived to keep costs under control but unfortunately with the current economic climate we do not have a choice. 09/01/03 The reason the used market is so cheap has a few reasons. The first is that large amounts of the gear for sale is by people getting out of the sport. These people are most likely going to take the best offer that they can get for gear. Rigs are worth a nice chunk of change and the sale of one usually makes for a nice transition to another activity for people getting out of jumping. Another reason is old gear just does not hold its value. Anything over about 5 year and 500 jumps is "worthless" to alot of new jumpers. These people are looking for new shiney gear that has minimal jumps on it. To sell the older gear people have to reduce the price or else they have a hard time finding buyers. There have been ads in the Classifieds here I've watched been renewed for 90 or more days because the seller was looking for a high price then the precieved value for the item. If the DOM on the item was only 3 or 4 years newer the seller could probally have gotten the price asked, but because the DOM was in the mid or early 90's they could'nt find anyone wanting to pay that price for "old" technology.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jlmiracle 7 #93 February 8, 2004 Quote Maybe you have not, but people do...In NASCAR...What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday. Quote Ron - I have lost sleep over your comparing Skydiving sponsorship to NASCAR sponsorship NASCAR has a million or so spectators, some more some less depending on the event. Skydiving, on a good event, has 100-200? NASCAR sponsors are aiming at the spectators, not the other NASCAR drivers to buy their products. Skydiving is aiming only at other skydivers. That's some of difference between NASCAR and Skydiving sponsorship. You wouldn't hear me bitching if Pepsi or Tide or Budweiser was picking up the tab. I'm going back to bed now. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #94 February 8, 2004 QuoteRon - I have lost sleep over your comparing Skydiving sponsorship to NASCAR sponsorship NASCAR has a million or so spectators, some more some less depending on the event. Skydiving, on a good event, has 100-200? NASCAR sponsors are aiming at the spectators, not the other NASCAR drivers to buy their products. Skydiving is aiming only at other skydivers. OK but low bucks racing events that are held all over the country every weekend and not aimed at the spectators...but at the other racers... Simple fact...Gear sponsorship works...If it didn't they would not do it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jrcrackers 0 #95 February 8, 2004 QuoteQuote Do you know better how to run their company? More effective marketing (at least what would attract me) would be for the manufacture to show up at a dz's around the country with demo's and I know some do that and they should do more of it. It sold me on the Odyssey. Judy Damn I wish we could afford to do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gjhdiver 0 #96 February 9, 2004 QuoteDoes it irratate anyone else the rig/canopy manufactures give away equipment to what seems like a very large amount of people, and make the rest of us pay for it when we PURCHASE new equipment. I have no problem with them sponsoring 1 RW team, 1 Freefly, etc. but its seems like every tom, dick and harry are "sponsored". Who is picking up bill? Maybe if they cut down on the freebees, the rest of us wouldn't have to pay so much. Just a thought. Judy Couldn't get any free stuff eh ? I'm fully sponsored for everything, right down to my altimeters, and have been for about 10 years. I can absolutely guarantee that the amount of sales that I have generated for my sponsors, far exceeds the values of the equipment that I have received. That's the whole point after all. I very much doubt that anyone has had to pay an extra dollar for their equipment based on a sponsorship program. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jlmiracle 7 #97 February 9, 2004 Quote Couldn't get any free stuff eh ?Quote Didn't ask. I can pay my way, just don't want to pay everyone else too. I'm fully sponsored for everything, right down to my altimeters, and have been for about 10 years. I can absolutely guarantee that the amount of sales that I have generated for my sponsors, far exceeds the values of the equipment that I have received. Not all the sponored people out there can account for sales, any.Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #98 February 9, 2004 QuoteQuote Couldn't get any free stuff eh ?Quote Didn't ask. I can pay my way, just don't want to pay everyone else too. I'm fully sponsored for everything, right down to my altimeters, and have been for about 10 years. I can absolutely guarantee that the amount of sales that I have generated for my sponsors, far exceeds the values of the equipment that I have received. Not all the sponored people out there can account for sales, any. I beg to differ. Whether they do it indirectly or directly, they market their stuff on every dive they make. I remember for a long time I wanted a Mirage cuz that's what Olav jumped, so it HAD to be good, right?? Did I ever meet him? Nope. Did he sit down and tell me how great Mirage was? Nope. But still, I saw him jumping it, and I was a new freeflyer, and WHAMMO, I WANTED ONE. I'm sure there are TONS of people out there that get hooked like that. I bet ya if you went and did a bunch of coached dives by someone who was an amazing flyer (like a world champ) you'd ask at some point, "hey, what are you jumping?". THAT'S what sells. Glad to know this isn't a "death to ______" thread anymore. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #99 February 10, 2004 QuoteMost sponsors don't want their equipment back after they give it to somebody. Scott, they ask for stuff back all the time. I always wonder where you get your info? If they don't give it back directly they sell it off as used and the manufacuter can at least get back something close to the cost of the gear.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #100 February 10, 2004 QuoteHeck, maybe I can talk someone into sponsor me with a soft reserve handle... Trade you a soft reserve handle for a Katana! I'll even get it embroidered for you.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 4 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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skynole 0 #82 February 6, 2004 I was told by someone that a select few of SunPath sponsored athletes not only get free rigs, but also receive endorsement money for jumping Javelins. Can anyone verify that? Note: I have no problem with sponsored jumpers and the the affect it has on gear prices. Like has been stated previously, that's no different than any other sport, or any product for that matter. FULLY sponsored jumpers have made many sacrifices and have dedicated so much to be at the top of their discipline(s)...and I have nothing but respect for that. That kind of dedication in any other major sport, more times than not, results in MUCH, MUCH more. Look at LeBron James...he hadn't played one second yet in the NBA and he already had millions in endorsements and sponsorships. I know that's an extreme example but you guys get my point. So if gear manufacturers want to give people free stuff to the one's who have put forth so much effort into the sport we all love (and receive an endorsement check, if that's the case...), that's totally fine by me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #83 February 6, 2004 Well since we are talking about who is picking up the bill...maybe this would be a good time to mention: donations gladly accepted here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #84 February 6, 2004 QuoteWell since we are talking about who is picking up the bill...maybe this would be a good time to mention: donations gladly accepted here Excellent segway BB, and thanks for the reminder. Making my way there now. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #85 February 6, 2004 QuoteExcellent segway BB, and thanks for the reminder. Making my way there now. Thanks Judy! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #86 February 6, 2004 And the bottom line is, get this now,, An owner gets to do what ever he pleases. Don't forget its America still. If you can create a frenzy of "i want one too" well thats the idea, it happens all day everyday on every product you can think of. All i smell here is sour grapes. wallysmile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stoneycase 0 #87 February 7, 2004 I wish I could remember the guy's name that I spoke with, but he said, as best I can remember, "It'll be around early 2004". That would have been a leadtime of around 4 months minimum. From everyone I've talked to about leadtimes (when I was searching for gear, which was Aug '03) I was told the average wait time from Sunpath and Mirage was anywhere from 10-12 weeks. I'd be interested to put in a call to all the major manufacturers and record their leadtimes here in this thread... any takers?? who's got free LD or time to kill? but I guess that would be for a different day and different thread.Does whisky count as beer? - Homer There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #88 February 7, 2004 >I was told the average wait time from Sunpath and Mirage was anywhere from 10-12 weeks. You must not have talked to anyone about gear since the start of '03 then with dates like that. Sunpath has been at a 18-25 week delay since at least May of last year. Mirage is averaging 6-10 weeks. Velocity Sports has averaged 5-9, Sunrise is at 3-8 depending on volume. Altico is about a week, with Relative Workshop and Jumpshack is at 4-6. Any major gear store can quote those off the top of their heads they are asked about so often. I checked about a month ago and those were the dates then.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WrongWay 0 #89 February 7, 2004 Quote>I was told the average wait time from Sunpath and Mirage was anywhere from 10-12 weeks. You must not have talked to anyone about gear since the start of '03 then with dates like that. Sunpath has been at a 18-25 week delay since at least May of last year. Mirage is averaging 6-10 weeks. Velocity Sports has averaged 5-9, Sunrise is at 3-8 depending on volume. Altico is about a week, with Relative Workshop and Jumpshack is at 4-6. Any major gear store can quote those off the top of their heads they are asked about so often. Once again, the man with the info. Gear nazi. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdweller 0 #90 February 7, 2004 > Because skydiving used to be alot of fun until it got so commercialized. < so go do somethung else.------------------------------------------------------ "From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant, who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #91 February 8, 2004 QuoteI wonder if some of it has to do with the fact that there really isn't a large amount of people buying new containers when you look at the size of the skydiving community and the amount of resales of used equipment in the industry. In addition, once people do buy something new, I think they tend to hang onto it for awhile. This seems to be the most logical reason for the high price. Most beginning skydivers that I have seen do not have the money to spend on a new rig, new canopy, new reserve, new cypress II, etc. I was just looking at a custom Mirage G4 with the colors I want and the options I would like, just to price it and man just the container was $2,462 without tax and shipping. Now through in my main and reserve and well duh, as you all know better than me, I am looking at well over 5.5K. I got my G3 with reserve and cypress for 2600 plus 1000 for my main. Used gear market has definitely got to be slowing new rig sales. Out of curiosity, have you guys that have been in a while seen prices dropping as more people join the sport? What do you predict rig prices to be doing over the next five or ten years? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 20 #92 February 8, 2004 QuoteWhat do you predict rig prices to be doing over the next five or ten years? Continue to rise. Gear makers have a lot of overhead and not a lot of market. Every order has to be custom made, and there is no market for excess stock. That and the ever increasing labor increases plus liability conserns make it hard to lower prices and make a profit. 5 years ago the base price on a Javelin was 1350, today the same container is 1750. Thats $400 in 5 years... QuotePrice Increase Takes Effect Sun Path Products, Inc. would like to inform our customers that as of September 1st 2003 we have implemented a price increase on our range of products and services. We would like to add that this price increase is necessary due to the continuing, rising costs of materials and other business related areas. Sun Path Products, Inc. has strived to keep costs under control but unfortunately with the current economic climate we do not have a choice. 09/01/03 The reason the used market is so cheap has a few reasons. The first is that large amounts of the gear for sale is by people getting out of the sport. These people are most likely going to take the best offer that they can get for gear. Rigs are worth a nice chunk of change and the sale of one usually makes for a nice transition to another activity for people getting out of jumping. Another reason is old gear just does not hold its value. Anything over about 5 year and 500 jumps is "worthless" to alot of new jumpers. These people are looking for new shiney gear that has minimal jumps on it. To sell the older gear people have to reduce the price or else they have a hard time finding buyers. There have been ads in the Classifieds here I've watched been renewed for 90 or more days because the seller was looking for a high price then the precieved value for the item. If the DOM on the item was only 3 or 4 years newer the seller could probally have gotten the price asked, but because the DOM was in the mid or early 90's they could'nt find anyone wanting to pay that price for "old" technology.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #93 February 8, 2004 Quote Maybe you have not, but people do...In NASCAR...What wins on Sunday, sells on Monday. Quote Ron - I have lost sleep over your comparing Skydiving sponsorship to NASCAR sponsorship NASCAR has a million or so spectators, some more some less depending on the event. Skydiving, on a good event, has 100-200? NASCAR sponsors are aiming at the spectators, not the other NASCAR drivers to buy their products. Skydiving is aiming only at other skydivers. That's some of difference between NASCAR and Skydiving sponsorship. You wouldn't hear me bitching if Pepsi or Tide or Budweiser was picking up the tab. I'm going back to bed now. JudyBe kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #94 February 8, 2004 QuoteRon - I have lost sleep over your comparing Skydiving sponsorship to NASCAR sponsorship NASCAR has a million or so spectators, some more some less depending on the event. Skydiving, on a good event, has 100-200? NASCAR sponsors are aiming at the spectators, not the other NASCAR drivers to buy their products. Skydiving is aiming only at other skydivers. OK but low bucks racing events that are held all over the country every weekend and not aimed at the spectators...but at the other racers... Simple fact...Gear sponsorship works...If it didn't they would not do it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jrcrackers 0 #95 February 8, 2004 QuoteQuote Do you know better how to run their company? More effective marketing (at least what would attract me) would be for the manufacture to show up at a dz's around the country with demo's and I know some do that and they should do more of it. It sold me on the Odyssey. Judy Damn I wish we could afford to do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gjhdiver 0 #96 February 9, 2004 QuoteDoes it irratate anyone else the rig/canopy manufactures give away equipment to what seems like a very large amount of people, and make the rest of us pay for it when we PURCHASE new equipment. I have no problem with them sponsoring 1 RW team, 1 Freefly, etc. but its seems like every tom, dick and harry are "sponsored". Who is picking up bill? Maybe if they cut down on the freebees, the rest of us wouldn't have to pay so much. Just a thought. Judy Couldn't get any free stuff eh ? I'm fully sponsored for everything, right down to my altimeters, and have been for about 10 years. I can absolutely guarantee that the amount of sales that I have generated for my sponsors, far exceeds the values of the equipment that I have received. That's the whole point after all. I very much doubt that anyone has had to pay an extra dollar for their equipment based on a sponsorship program. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jlmiracle 7 #97 February 9, 2004 Quote Couldn't get any free stuff eh ?Quote Didn't ask. I can pay my way, just don't want to pay everyone else too. I'm fully sponsored for everything, right down to my altimeters, and have been for about 10 years. I can absolutely guarantee that the amount of sales that I have generated for my sponsors, far exceeds the values of the equipment that I have received. Not all the sponored people out there can account for sales, any.Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #98 February 9, 2004 QuoteQuote Couldn't get any free stuff eh ?Quote Didn't ask. I can pay my way, just don't want to pay everyone else too. I'm fully sponsored for everything, right down to my altimeters, and have been for about 10 years. I can absolutely guarantee that the amount of sales that I have generated for my sponsors, far exceeds the values of the equipment that I have received. Not all the sponored people out there can account for sales, any. I beg to differ. Whether they do it indirectly or directly, they market their stuff on every dive they make. I remember for a long time I wanted a Mirage cuz that's what Olav jumped, so it HAD to be good, right?? Did I ever meet him? Nope. Did he sit down and tell me how great Mirage was? Nope. But still, I saw him jumping it, and I was a new freeflyer, and WHAMMO, I WANTED ONE. I'm sure there are TONS of people out there that get hooked like that. I bet ya if you went and did a bunch of coached dives by someone who was an amazing flyer (like a world champ) you'd ask at some point, "hey, what are you jumping?". THAT'S what sells. Glad to know this isn't a "death to ______" thread anymore. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #99 February 10, 2004 QuoteMost sponsors don't want their equipment back after they give it to somebody. Scott, they ask for stuff back all the time. I always wonder where you get your info? If they don't give it back directly they sell it off as used and the manufacuter can at least get back something close to the cost of the gear.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #100 February 10, 2004 QuoteHeck, maybe I can talk someone into sponsor me with a soft reserve handle... Trade you a soft reserve handle for a Katana! I'll even get it embroidered for you.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 4 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Ron 10 #94 February 8, 2004 QuoteRon - I have lost sleep over your comparing Skydiving sponsorship to NASCAR sponsorship NASCAR has a million or so spectators, some more some less depending on the event. Skydiving, on a good event, has 100-200? NASCAR sponsors are aiming at the spectators, not the other NASCAR drivers to buy their products. Skydiving is aiming only at other skydivers. OK but low bucks racing events that are held all over the country every weekend and not aimed at the spectators...but at the other racers... Simple fact...Gear sponsorship works...If it didn't they would not do it."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jrcrackers 0 #95 February 8, 2004 QuoteQuote Do you know better how to run their company? More effective marketing (at least what would attract me) would be for the manufacture to show up at a dz's around the country with demo's and I know some do that and they should do more of it. It sold me on the Odyssey. Judy Damn I wish we could afford to do that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #96 February 9, 2004 QuoteDoes it irratate anyone else the rig/canopy manufactures give away equipment to what seems like a very large amount of people, and make the rest of us pay for it when we PURCHASE new equipment. I have no problem with them sponsoring 1 RW team, 1 Freefly, etc. but its seems like every tom, dick and harry are "sponsored". Who is picking up bill? Maybe if they cut down on the freebees, the rest of us wouldn't have to pay so much. Just a thought. Judy Couldn't get any free stuff eh ? I'm fully sponsored for everything, right down to my altimeters, and have been for about 10 years. I can absolutely guarantee that the amount of sales that I have generated for my sponsors, far exceeds the values of the equipment that I have received. That's the whole point after all. I very much doubt that anyone has had to pay an extra dollar for their equipment based on a sponsorship program. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #97 February 9, 2004 Quote Couldn't get any free stuff eh ?Quote Didn't ask. I can pay my way, just don't want to pay everyone else too. I'm fully sponsored for everything, right down to my altimeters, and have been for about 10 years. I can absolutely guarantee that the amount of sales that I have generated for my sponsors, far exceeds the values of the equipment that I have received. Not all the sponored people out there can account for sales, any.Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites WrongWay 0 #98 February 9, 2004 QuoteQuote Couldn't get any free stuff eh ?Quote Didn't ask. I can pay my way, just don't want to pay everyone else too. I'm fully sponsored for everything, right down to my altimeters, and have been for about 10 years. I can absolutely guarantee that the amount of sales that I have generated for my sponsors, far exceeds the values of the equipment that I have received. Not all the sponored people out there can account for sales, any. I beg to differ. Whether they do it indirectly or directly, they market their stuff on every dive they make. I remember for a long time I wanted a Mirage cuz that's what Olav jumped, so it HAD to be good, right?? Did I ever meet him? Nope. Did he sit down and tell me how great Mirage was? Nope. But still, I saw him jumping it, and I was a new freeflyer, and WHAMMO, I WANTED ONE. I'm sure there are TONS of people out there that get hooked like that. I bet ya if you went and did a bunch of coached dives by someone who was an amazing flyer (like a world champ) you'd ask at some point, "hey, what are you jumping?". THAT'S what sells. Glad to know this isn't a "death to ______" thread anymore. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #99 February 10, 2004 QuoteMost sponsors don't want their equipment back after they give it to somebody. Scott, they ask for stuff back all the time. I always wonder where you get your info? If they don't give it back directly they sell it off as used and the manufacuter can at least get back something close to the cost of the gear.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #100 February 10, 2004 QuoteHeck, maybe I can talk someone into sponsor me with a soft reserve handle... Trade you a soft reserve handle for a Katana! I'll even get it embroidered for you.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 4 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
WrongWay 0 #98 February 9, 2004 QuoteQuote Couldn't get any free stuff eh ?Quote Didn't ask. I can pay my way, just don't want to pay everyone else too. I'm fully sponsored for everything, right down to my altimeters, and have been for about 10 years. I can absolutely guarantee that the amount of sales that I have generated for my sponsors, far exceeds the values of the equipment that I have received. Not all the sponored people out there can account for sales, any. I beg to differ. Whether they do it indirectly or directly, they market their stuff on every dive they make. I remember for a long time I wanted a Mirage cuz that's what Olav jumped, so it HAD to be good, right?? Did I ever meet him? Nope. Did he sit down and tell me how great Mirage was? Nope. But still, I saw him jumping it, and I was a new freeflyer, and WHAMMO, I WANTED ONE. I'm sure there are TONS of people out there that get hooked like that. I bet ya if you went and did a bunch of coached dives by someone who was an amazing flyer (like a world champ) you'd ask at some point, "hey, what are you jumping?". THAT'S what sells. Glad to know this isn't a "death to ______" thread anymore. Wrong Way D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451 The wiser wolf prevails. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #99 February 10, 2004 QuoteMost sponsors don't want their equipment back after they give it to somebody. Scott, they ask for stuff back all the time. I always wonder where you get your info? If they don't give it back directly they sell it off as used and the manufacuter can at least get back something close to the cost of the gear.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dgskydive 0 #100 February 10, 2004 QuoteHeck, maybe I can talk someone into sponsor me with a soft reserve handle... Trade you a soft reserve handle for a Katana! I'll even get it embroidered for you.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 Next Page 4 of 5 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
dgskydive 0 #99 February 10, 2004 QuoteMost sponsors don't want their equipment back after they give it to somebody. Scott, they ask for stuff back all the time. I always wonder where you get your info? If they don't give it back directly they sell it off as used and the manufacuter can at least get back something close to the cost of the gear.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dgskydive 0 #100 February 10, 2004 QuoteHeck, maybe I can talk someone into sponsor me with a soft reserve handle... Trade you a soft reserve handle for a Katana! I'll even get it embroidered for you.Dom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
