Who is picking up the bill?

[bbarnhouse 0]

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I would rather see them give away a rig to a NEW jumper, say through a raffle or drawing

Aerodyne did! The gave away a complete system at the Holiday Boogie, the winner being a jumper with 200+ jumps. They also gave a way another complete system via the internet to a jumper with 60+ jumps. Both were dropzone.com members.
As to your statement:

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I have never seen one of the big names, ever go out of their way to talk to someone about gear. In fact, most of the time you can't find them.

Maybe its just where I live...but I see and hear it on a daily basis.
Cheers!
B2

[PhreeZone 20]

>Maybe its just where I live...

It is. There is not a sponsored jumper at my DZ or any of the other 3 DZ's in my area I go to. I've been on the same DZ during really slow times with 3 fully sponsored jumpers and not one of them ever brought gear up in a conversation. We talked more about the Otter then we did about gear.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

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not one of them ever brought gear up in a conversation.

Did you ask?

I'm sure NASCAR drivers don't just bring up their sponsers in conversation for no apparent reason.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[benny 0]

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There is not a sponsored jumper at my DZ or any of the other 3 DZ's in my area I go to.

Sounds like you've got yourself a good pitch for sponsorship right there Phree

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[PhreeZone 20]

I'm quite happy paying for all of my gear. That way when I fly my canopy into a volley ball pole and rip it, no one else needs to know. Also this way I have the freedom to bash any gear on the market (including my own) and I'm not speaking for anyone else other then myself.

And yes... I complemented the one on the unusual design he had on his soft reserve handle. I liked the idea and will probally do the same when I get a new rig. That was the extent of our gear talk.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[AggieDave 6]

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And yes... I complemented the one on the unusual design he had on his soft reserve handle. I liked the idea and will probally do the same when I get a new rig. That was the extent of our gear talk.

You know, if that was how the conversation went and a sponsered jumper waxed blissfully about the quality of their gear, etc, I would probably be really really annoyed. Might even go out of my way not to buy that gear if I could.

If I asked a sponsered jumper about the gear specifically, i.e. "hey, I heard that container X has problems with XYZ, whats the deal with that?"

Then I'd expect them to talk about the virtues of their gear.

Well, that boils down to different folks expect different things.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[lewmonst 0]

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Yes, but not all those people that are sponsored have "paid" their dues, or even earned their freebie, from what I've seen.

I'm curious, who you are thinking of that prompted that statement?

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I've never ever seen a "sponsored" rig and thought, I need to get one of those.

And you probably didn't buy Nike's because Michael Jordan wore them either, but, a whole lot of other people did...

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Since signing up with Nike, Jordan shoes and apparel has generated US$2.6 billion in sales for Nike. His first Nike TV ad "Who said man wasn't meant to fly" sparked a new breed of advertising campaigns focussing on specific athletes and image development. In the first year, Nike sold US$130 million worth of Air Jordan Is. More than 2 million AJ1's were sold between 1985 and 1987.

So what's wrong with sponsorship in our sport? Gear manufacturers are businesses like all other businesses. They want their product endorsed by and seen on the best of the athletes. The positive image it reflects on their company generates more sales. It's advertising. It works.

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Is is really more cost effective for the manufactures to give alot of stuff away and hope it is properly marketed, or for them to show up at a dropzone near you?

From what I've seen, instructors have the biggest impact on what new jumpers buy.

Agreed... The goal of sponsoring, as someone else has said, is not as a reward, but as a business tactic to promote sales. You aren't just sponsored because your good at something. Gear manufacturer's sponsor athletes, like Chuck, who they think will represent their companies image in a positive way, be visible in the field, knowledgeable and respected. On the same token, good athletes can lose sponsorship if the companies think that athletes public image may be bad (Kobe)...

Instructors definately have an impact on what new jumpers buy and are often partially sponsored for that reason. I can think of one company that only sponsors instructors. You are an instructor, why not apply for some sponsorship from the gear manufacturer's you believe in? It is not all about just being good. It is about what you stand for.

Sponsorship is also not a bottomless pitcher... Several partially sponsored instructors who lost everything in the fire are not getting free replacements or even anything close to the discount of the original sponsorship. One is completely changing his gear because he simply cannot afford to replace what was lost and must opt for a cheaper harness/container and a cheaper main canopy from completely different manufacturers. Unfortunately. Not everyone gets freebies.

Is it a perfect system? of course not...

Do we all wish we had sponsors? of course.

Am I sponsored? Not yet...

peace
lew

http://www.exitshot.com

[benny 0]

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I'm quite happy paying for all of my gear. That way when I fly my canopy into a volley ball pole and rip it, no one else needs to know.

Now you've gone and ruined my otherwise high opinion of you. First, you're happy paying for stuff?? Are you nuts?? Police come get this man, he's dangerous no matter what canopy he flies... And a volleyball pole?? Man o man what is the world coming to?

I'm still not sure what manufacturer I'll go with and while I'm not against sponsorship (I hope to be good enough for someone to give me stuff someday) I'll probably be more influenced on my first purchase by what I've seen the most on the backs of the experienced jumpers I jump with. But I'll probably buy used so it's not like the manufacturer's gonna get my buck the first time round anyway!

Never go to a DZ strip show.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Many folks are sponsored for what they contribute, not just because they have medals. People of merit and integrity.
It is easy to stand and say " I never see them do this and that" but what about the things that you don't see? Some folks spend countless hours organizing events, while others are writing articles, taking photos or editing video. It really is about what a person contributes.
If one doesn't believe in sponsorship, then go with a manufacturer that doesn't offer it.
I worked for Nike and I know how effective sponsorship is, so I agree with Lew..it works. It all comes down to choices.
As the economy changes, so must the decisons by the manufacturers on whom they sponsor and at what level.
Most of the sponsored folks I know have worked very hard to be where they are today, and continue to do so. It isn't a right, it is a priviledge and I believe they have earned it down to every last line, thread, and three ring.
B2

[Kolla 0]

Was that Max Cohn by any chance?
I do think his reserve handle is the bomb.... and I think I'll steal that idea too next time I get a new handle.
Heck, maybe I can talk someone into sponsor me with a soft reserve handle...

Blue ones,
Kolla

Blue Skies Magazine

[bbarnhouse 0]

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Heck, maybe I can talk someone into sponsor me with a soft reserve handle...

Bwahhhhhhhh okay Kolla I just happen to have an extra yellow one. I'll be happy to put some cross stitching on it for ya....will that work?

[airdweller 0]

>Does it irratate anyone else the rig/canopy manufactures give away equipment <

I personally am not irritated in the least, If someone gets sponsored from some company, GOOD for them. I purchased my rig new from mirage.

However they came up with the price is of no concern to me.

My rig was worth every penny I spent on it. If it wasn't I would have gone somewhere else.

------------------------------------------------------
"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[PhreeZone 20]

>I do think his reserve handle is the bomb.... and I think I'll steal that idea too next time I get a new handle.

You know it girl! I saw that and it caught my eye. Good idea who ever had it.

>Heck, maybe I can talk someone into sponsor me with a soft reserve handle...

Gee, I'd love to replace my handle with a soft one with that on it too... Wonder if I could get that company to assist or even buy it for me.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[stoneycase 0]

Question for you: If there aren't a large amount of people buying new containers why does it take some of the manufacturers (Velocity excluded) in excess of 3 months to build one? Honestly, I talked to a handful of mfr's when selecting mine, and every single one, again with the exception of Velocity, told me "sometime in early/mid 2004". I called in August of 2003.....

Not that I would have them *rush* through construction, lord knows I don't want that. but I mean really, if Velocity has their act together, and they turned out my rig in only 2 months why does Mirage need 6 months? I suppose their demand is higher, and one could argue many other points, but I find it hard to believe people are willing to wait half a year for a tye-dyed Mirage.

Does whisky count as beer? - Homer
There's no justice like angry mob justice. - Skinner
Be careful. There's a limited future in low pulls - JohnMitchell

[diablopilot 2]

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but I mean really, if Velocity has their act together, and they turned out my rig in only 2 months why does Mirage need 6 months? I suppose their demand is higher, and one could argue many other points, but I find it hard to believe people are willing to wait half a year for a tye-dyed Mirage.

I doubt Mirage told you that. In the 5 years I've been selling gear Mirage has never been more than 8 weeks and most offen not more than 4. Add 2 weeks for tie dye.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[mjosparky 4]

Who do you think is picking up the bill? Who do you think is picking up the bill for all the advertising that the big three auto companies and Bud does. Its a fact of life, if you can't live with and move on, buy your gear from a manufacture that doesn't advertise.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Amazon 7]

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They also gave a way another complete system via the internet to a jumper with 60+ jumps. Both were dropzone.com members.

Yup Our own little ACMESkydiver won that and I think its WONDERFUll a wife a mother and a really neat woman. I am sure it helped their houshold budget quite a bit.

[WrongWay 0]

First of all, I'm basing this off of the first post, I have not read the entire thread. And this is NOT a personal attack, I have nothing against this girl whatsoever, it just kinda offends me and I tend to rant when provoked, so my apologies ahead of time.

Chica, with all due respect, quit whining. Every single person who is sponsored and given "freebies",as you call it, is evaluated as being someone who has put years and thousands of jumps into the sport, and they rightfully deserve what they get. Frankly, you're jealous and need to get over it. If you're not good enough to get sponsored because you haven't put in the time, jumps, effort, and yes, money into the sport like they have, it's your own damn fault, not theirs. Would you expect someone who has nothing but a clean driving record to be able to walk into a car dealership and ask them nicely for a "freebie" because they don't wanna pay for it, and actually have them handed a car? No way. So quit acting like you deserve something you don't, and also quit trying to make a mockery of the people that do. Put a few thousand jumps into it, and then you can come back and complain about not getting freebies. Until then, drop me your address and I'll send you a pull up cord to get you started.

By the way, I've paid for every piece of gear I've ever owned, and I wouldn't feel right if I hadn't.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[jlmiracle 7]

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First of all, I'm basing this off of the first post, I have not read the entire thread. And this is NOT a personal attack, I have nothing against this girl whatsoever, it just kinda offends me and I tend to rant when provoked, so my apologies ahead of time.

Chica, with all due respect, quit whining. Every single person who is sponsored and given "freebies",as you call it, is evaluated as being someone who has put years and thousands of jumps into the sport, and they rightfully deserve what they get. Frankly, you're jealous and need to get over it. If you're not good enough to get sponsored because you haven't put in the time, jumps, effort, and yes, money into the sport like they have, it's your own damn fault, not theirs. Would you expect someone who has nothing but a clean driving record to be able to walk into a car dealership and ask them nicely for a "freebie" because they don't wanna pay for it, and actually have them handed a car? No way. So quit acting like you deserve something you don't, and also quit trying to make a mockery of the people that do. Put a few thousand jumps into it, and then you can come back and complain about not getting freebies. Until then, drop me your address and I'll send you a pull up cord to get you started.

By the way, I've paid for every piece of gear I've ever owned, and I wouldn't feel right if I hadn't.

Well boy its obvious you didn't read the whole thread. Jealous, no. Sorry to disappoint you. I'm just tired of paying for everyone elses rig/canopy.

Some people have principals and have worked harder than you could ever imagine and GIVEN back more to the sport and NEVER asked for ANYTHING in return.

And as far as all these scenarios some people keep throwing about other sports, industries, etc. I'm only talking skydiving. I don't care what the car companies are doing.

Since you dont' mind paying extra then you won't mind paying everyone a few hunderd dollars that objects to all the freebies.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Ron 10]

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Some people have principals and have worked harder than you could ever imagine and GIVEN back more to the sport and NEVER asked for ANYTHING in return

And some of them get free rigs...Some don't.

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And as far as all these scenarios some people keep throwing about other sports, industries, etc. I'm only talking skydiving. I don't care what the car companies are doing.

Why would skydiving be different that any other thing in the way the world works?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[jlmiracle 7]

[Ron 10]

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Because skydiving used to be alot of fun until it got so commercialized

Its still not commercialized yet. Not even close.

Blame it on the USPA..."From Extreme to Mainstream".

But its how the world works....And its not going to change.

Some will always get free stuff, some will earn it, some will not.

But the cool thing about free enterprise is that if the MAKERS of the gear feel that it is worth it they will do it...If not then they will not.

They clearly think it is worth it.

Do you know better how to run their company?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[weegegirl 2]

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Why would skydiving be different that any other thing in the way the world works?

[jlmiracle 7]

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Do you know better how to run their company?

More effective marketing (at least what would attract me) would be for the manufacture to show up at a dz's around the country with demo's and I know some do that and they should do more of it. It sold me on the Odyssey.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[riggerrob 643]

Much of the confusion is caused by jumpers who "stretch the truth" about their level of sponsorship.
Many jumpers are only "loaned" demo canopies, but by the time they have finished bragging about how great they are and how their **** does not stink, you would think that the canopy manufacturer had given they three compete sets of gear, flown them to the world meet, put them up in a hotel, wined and dined them, paid them a salary, provided tonnes of blow, hookers, etc. ......

Truth is, unless you wear medals from a world meet, your sponsorship will probably not exceed best-dealer discount.