Ron 10 #51 February 6, 2004 QuoteI have seen the odd AFF student who lands better than people with hundreds of jumps. We are all different. Some people have a knack for flying their canopies and some people don't. OK so, thats ONE person... We are talking about in General. So answer the question... Which would be better. The SAME student with 8 coaching jumps, or 15?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #52 February 6, 2004 Oh I'm not sure exactly what the requirements are, but can't some people become a static line instructor with only a hundred jumps or so? Are we led to believe that a 100-200 jump skydiver is going to have the canopy knowledge to teach a student? In some cases, the answer is yes (because once again we are all different and some people have a knack for doing things) and in some cases the answer is no. Yes static line students are supervised longer, but AFF instructors are often more experienced than someone who is only a static line instructor. I'm not dissing static line training, I just don't buy into the argument that static line students are automatically assumed to be superior canopy pilots. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #53 February 6, 2004 QuoteWhich would be better. The SAME student with 8 coaching jumps, or 15? I will acknowledge that the potential for an AFF student to fall through the cracks is higher than a static line student as they are under supervision a shorter period and unless the more experienced jumpers take notice, the recent AFF grad could be developing some bad habits. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #54 February 6, 2004 Not to mention the numbers involved and traffic. Again refering to Cessna land, we put a plane in the air with 4 static line students and an instructor... well the instructor always lands first leaving the 4 students in the air with radio guidance from someone else on the ground. If those 4 students listen to the radio guidance (and the one providing it is not a complete muppet), then they learn how to fit into the pattern with traffic around them. They can hear what is being said to the other jumpers and are more privy to the 'big picture'. An Aff student jumps out with two instructors and is given great seperation before another student leaves with two more instructors. This student get his/her radio guidance and makes a nice landing but does not get the same "big picture". It's a small factor, but still a valid one IMO seeing as being a good "canopy pilot" is not all about your landing but also about how you deal with other canopies around you. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveNFlorida 0 #55 February 6, 2004 QuoteShoul I jump again? Hell no! What are you, crazy?! Angela. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
josebaumanndez 0 #56 February 6, 2004 Ya, try that first AFF, then a second. You'll find the second much better, as each one thereafter.--------------------------------------------------------- Everyday's a holiday, every meal's a banquet! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #57 February 6, 2004 QuoteNot to mention the numbers involved and traffic. Again refering to Cessna land, we put a plane in the air with 4 static line students and an instructor... well the instructor always lands first leaving the 4 students in the air with radio guidance from someone else on the ground. If those 4 students listen to the radio guidance (and the one providing it is not a complete muppet), then they learn how to fit into the pattern with traffic around them. They can hear what is being said to the other jumpers and are more privy to the 'big picture'. An Aff student jumps out with two instructors and is given great seperation before another student leaves with two more instructors. This student get his/her radio guidance and makes a nice landing but does not get the same "big picture". It's a small factor, but still a valid one IMO seeing as being a good "canopy pilot" is not all about your landing but also about how you deal with other canopies around you. So with all that said, am I to assume that you think AFF students never have to deal with traffic? I guess you haven't jumped at any mid to large sized DZs. You see at my DZ (a medium sized DZ), the AFF students have the potential to have other AFF students in the air with them, tandems, wingsuit fliers and any other high pullers who take their time getting down. We're all individuals with varying degrees of skill and talent. I'm not saying one training method is better than the other. I'm just feel that saying one method produces the superior canopy pilot is incorrect. Because a lot has to deal with the student's talents, the instructor's talents and the environment they jump in. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #58 February 6, 2004 Quote So with all that said, am I to assume that you think AFF students never have to deal with traffic? Nope QuoteWe're all individuals with varying degrees of skill and talent. Uh-huh QuoteI'm not saying one training method is better than the other. I am. But more in a "One training method in particular may be better for YOU." Kinda way. Also dealing with the individual. QuoteI'm just feel that saying one method produces the superior canopy pilot is incorrect. Hey, that's cool. Tak on "IMO" like I did and it's better though My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #59 February 7, 2004 Great answer Chuck, you nailed it on the head. As for "no fear Scott" how about totally unstable from 14k to 8k. If that doesnt put a flock of geese in his belly then he should give it up. It sure fixed my ass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #60 February 7, 2004 gerrcoin makes an excellent point too. And that's that other than climbing out and jumping, the S/L student has nothing other than certain EPs (one handle to pull) and flying his/her canopy to focus on for the entire handful of first jumps. The AFF student is likely using a LOT more chi, to focus on remaining stable, all the EPs, altitude awareness etc. Before he/she is even in the saddle. If you were a whuffo, and went to a 'skydiving school' (hehe) and the first thing you learn is flying under nylon, then that's forever going to be the first thing you learned. I'm not knocking AFF, I obviously progressed S/L but I know what AFF entails and I'll never knock it... Nor tandem progression... actually, to me, Tandem progression is what would give you the best of both worlds. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #61 February 7, 2004 QuoteS/L is outdated training. Don't feed the S/L trolls. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #62 February 7, 2004 QuoteMy personal feelings, if you don't have some fear at some level, then you either don't understand the whole picture, or you're not in the proper mental state to skydive. Or as Yoda would say to Luke, "you will be". I can understand your lack of fear with your background. But we have a saying, that "shit happens". You'll see it happen. It can - and sooner or later will - happen to you. Maybe fear isn't what you need. Just respect. Respect the sport, respect the sky, respect yourself and the jumpers you share the sky with. One of these days it will save your life. Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firstime 0 #63 February 7, 2004 yes respect... I lost respect for the table saw that I was cutting a piece of 3/4 and lost 3 fingers and a thumb, but didnt lose my life, it just sucks that the bottom piece of bread keeps falling to the floor when I try to have a sandwich. All kidding aside, yes the above is true but respect is the key. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KolinskyDC 0 #64 February 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteQuoteI can see the hop n' pop argument (that AFF grads may be more scared than static line grads), but I just don't buy this crap that static line trained people will be better canopy pilots Simple... Static line you are under supervision longer than AFF. AFF you do it right you are done in 7-8 jumps. S/L it takes 15 or so to be done...On all of those an Instructor is watching you land. So what would make you better? 7 coach jumps under canopy? Or 15? I know this is my own personal experience but I must say, I now have 51 jumps and I still have instructors watching my landings. Maybe that is the way it is at my DZ. But regardless of wether a person goes through AFF, SL or tandem progression, just because you are cleared for solo and instructors do not "have to" watch your canopy skills, at my DZ they still do, which some may not appreciate but I do, and welcome any advice on how to make myself a better canopy pilot. I may be naive but I have to believe that no instructor would clear a student for solo, unless they felt that student has a good grasp and understanding of all aspects of the skydive. And with regards to the SL students being better at packing, the method of training you use should have no bearing on your ability to pack. Again, may sound naive, but how does someone with 600 jumps not know how to pack, unless they have still not obtained their A license, isn't that one of the requirements, must have completely packed a rig with no assistance? Melissa "May the best of your past be the worst of your future" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites b1jercat 0 #65 February 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteI can see the hop n' pop argument (that AFF grads may be more scared than static line grads), but I just don't buy this crap that static line trained people will be better canopy pilots Simple... Static line you are under supervision longer than AFF. AFF you do it right you are done in 7-8 jumps. S/L it takes 15 or so to be done...On all of those an Instructor is watching you land. So what would make you better? 7 coach jumps under canopy? Or 15? And I will say I trust an S/L students spot much more than an AFF students. Ron, I have to point out that Aff coach jumps don't stop at 7 jumps, just student status. You still have all your fall rate, tracking, and swoop dives to do which are of course coached jumps and which all contain some canopy TLO's in oder to obtain your A lisend. I could generally agree S/L students may have more opportunity to spot on low jumps, but we all know that spotting on full tude jumps where the uppers come in to play, is not really the same thing. Having never done any S/L jump I would not know of any advantages or disadvantages but if I had to think of one. I would guess that there would be less brain lock issues with S/L progression. blue skies jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jannas 0 #66 February 7, 2004 Well this became a pretty long lasting debate.. In the end it doesn´t matter at all if you were an s/l or aff student. 300 jumps later the aff student has probably picked up what the s/l student had in canopy control and the s/l student has probably picked up what ever the advantage the aff student had. The only thing that matters is what to recommend a new jumper. And then it comes down to the money and the balls. A rich guy who can´t wait for the freefall - aff - or a fearless dude who had to sell his car and house to pay for the course -s/l. It´s as easy as that. Or even easier if the closest dz only offers one of the options... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #67 February 7, 2004 QuoteI know this is my own personal experience but I must say, I now have 51 jumps and I still have instructors watching my landings. Maybe that is the way it is at my DZ. But regardless of wether a person goes through AFF, SL or tandem progression, just because you are cleared for solo and instructors do not "have to" watch your canopy skills, at my DZ they still do, which 1. Not all DZ's do that. 2. You are female. QuoteI may be naive but I have to believe that no instructor would clear a student for solo, unless they felt that student has a good grasp and understanding of all aspects of the skydive. Grasp and understanding yes...But how much understanding and how much of a grasp? People with 1,000's of jumps still get coaching. I have a good "grasp and understanding" of freefall, but I still go to the wind tunnel. The simple fact is the more instrustion you get the better you will be...If I go do 15 coaching dives with you, you will get more than if I just did 5. QuoteAnd with regards to the SL students being better at packing, the method of training you use should have no bearing on your ability to pack But yet it can. QuoteAgain, may sound naive, but how does someone with 600 jumps not know how to pack, unless they have still not obtained their A license, isn't that one of the requirements, must have completely packed a rig with no assistance? Its called pencil whipping....It happens. I can name four people right now (all with around 600 jumps) that can't pack for themselves, just at Zhills."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #68 February 7, 2004 QuoteRon, I have to point out that Aff coach jumps don't stop at 7 jumps, just student status. You still have all your fall rate, tracking, and swoop dives to do which are of course coached jumps and which all contain some canopy TLO's in oder to obtain your A lisend And I have to point out that the coach jumps ARE NOT MANDITORY.....You can get done in 7 jumps, and do solos till you have 25. QuoteI could generally agree S/L students may have more opportunity to spot on low jumps, but we all know that spotting on full tude jumps where the uppers come in to play, is not really the same thing. Who is gonna be better? The guy that has done 15 spots from 4-12,000 feet, or the guy that has done 7 from Altitude? (Remember not ALL the S/L jumps are low, just the first 5, then its freefall with higher exit altitudes as you progress.) So my money is on the S/L student."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites KolinskyDC 0 #69 February 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteI know this is my own personal experience but I must say, I now have 51 jumps and I still have instructors watching my landings. Maybe that is the way it is at my DZ. But regardless of whether a person goes through AFF, SL or tandem progression, just because you are cleared for solo and instructors do not "have to" watch your canopy skills, at my DZ they still do, which 1. Not all DZ's do that. That is really unfortunate and one of the reasons why I love my DZ, I always know someone is watching and waiting to tell my all the things I did right as well as wrong, and how to do it better. Quote2. You are female. Yes, I am a female and understand that may be some of the reason I get more attention than some of my male counterparts, that is a reality I have been aware of all my life. But I do see many male students getting extra advice on canopy skills and other aspects of their jumps after they have been cleared for solo. QuoteQuoteI may be naive but I have to believe that no instructor would clear a student for solo, unless they felt that student has a good grasp and understanding of all aspects of the skydive. Grasp and understanding yes...But how much understanding and how much of a grasp? People with 1,000's of jumps still get coaching. I have a good "grasp and understanding" of freefall, but I still go to the wind tunnel. I do not disagree that even people with thousands of jumps still have things to learn, but the original subject was regarding students, not skydivers with thousands of jumps. QuoteThe simple fact is the more instruction you get the better you will be...If I go do 15 coaching dives with you, you will get more than if I just did 5. I agree, but most coaching dives focus mainly on freefall skills, at least the ones I have done, which focused mainly on freefall skills. QuoteQuoteAgain, may sound naive, but how does someone with 600 jumps not know how to pack, unless they have still not obtained their A license, isn't that one of the requirements, must have completely packed a rig with no assistance? Its called pencil whipping....It happens. I can name four people right now (all with around 600 jumps) that can't pack for themselves, just at Zhills. That is sad. I would think that those people would want to know how to pack and would have sought out someone to teach them by now. 600 jumps x $5 a pack job, $3000, I personally would think of that as more money I could have put towards more jumps. Melissa "May the best of your past be the worst of your future" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b1jercat 0 #65 February 7, 2004 QuoteQuoteI can see the hop n' pop argument (that AFF grads may be more scared than static line grads), but I just don't buy this crap that static line trained people will be better canopy pilots Simple... Static line you are under supervision longer than AFF. AFF you do it right you are done in 7-8 jumps. S/L it takes 15 or so to be done...On all of those an Instructor is watching you land. So what would make you better? 7 coach jumps under canopy? Or 15? And I will say I trust an S/L students spot much more than an AFF students. Ron, I have to point out that Aff coach jumps don't stop at 7 jumps, just student status. You still have all your fall rate, tracking, and swoop dives to do which are of course coached jumps and which all contain some canopy TLO's in oder to obtain your A lisend. I could generally agree S/L students may have more opportunity to spot on low jumps, but we all know that spotting on full tude jumps where the uppers come in to play, is not really the same thing. Having never done any S/L jump I would not know of any advantages or disadvantages but if I had to think of one. I would guess that there would be less brain lock issues with S/L progression. blue skies jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jannas 0 #66 February 7, 2004 Well this became a pretty long lasting debate.. In the end it doesn´t matter at all if you were an s/l or aff student. 300 jumps later the aff student has probably picked up what the s/l student had in canopy control and the s/l student has probably picked up what ever the advantage the aff student had. The only thing that matters is what to recommend a new jumper. And then it comes down to the money and the balls. A rich guy who can´t wait for the freefall - aff - or a fearless dude who had to sell his car and house to pay for the course -s/l. It´s as easy as that. Or even easier if the closest dz only offers one of the options... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #67 February 7, 2004 QuoteI know this is my own personal experience but I must say, I now have 51 jumps and I still have instructors watching my landings. Maybe that is the way it is at my DZ. But regardless of wether a person goes through AFF, SL or tandem progression, just because you are cleared for solo and instructors do not "have to" watch your canopy skills, at my DZ they still do, which 1. Not all DZ's do that. 2. You are female. QuoteI may be naive but I have to believe that no instructor would clear a student for solo, unless they felt that student has a good grasp and understanding of all aspects of the skydive. Grasp and understanding yes...But how much understanding and how much of a grasp? People with 1,000's of jumps still get coaching. I have a good "grasp and understanding" of freefall, but I still go to the wind tunnel. The simple fact is the more instrustion you get the better you will be...If I go do 15 coaching dives with you, you will get more than if I just did 5. QuoteAnd with regards to the SL students being better at packing, the method of training you use should have no bearing on your ability to pack But yet it can. QuoteAgain, may sound naive, but how does someone with 600 jumps not know how to pack, unless they have still not obtained their A license, isn't that one of the requirements, must have completely packed a rig with no assistance? Its called pencil whipping....It happens. I can name four people right now (all with around 600 jumps) that can't pack for themselves, just at Zhills."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 10 #68 February 7, 2004 QuoteRon, I have to point out that Aff coach jumps don't stop at 7 jumps, just student status. You still have all your fall rate, tracking, and swoop dives to do which are of course coached jumps and which all contain some canopy TLO's in oder to obtain your A lisend And I have to point out that the coach jumps ARE NOT MANDITORY.....You can get done in 7 jumps, and do solos till you have 25. QuoteI could generally agree S/L students may have more opportunity to spot on low jumps, but we all know that spotting on full tude jumps where the uppers come in to play, is not really the same thing. Who is gonna be better? The guy that has done 15 spots from 4-12,000 feet, or the guy that has done 7 from Altitude? (Remember not ALL the S/L jumps are low, just the first 5, then its freefall with higher exit altitudes as you progress.) So my money is on the S/L student."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KolinskyDC 0 #69 February 8, 2004 QuoteQuoteI know this is my own personal experience but I must say, I now have 51 jumps and I still have instructors watching my landings. Maybe that is the way it is at my DZ. But regardless of whether a person goes through AFF, SL or tandem progression, just because you are cleared for solo and instructors do not "have to" watch your canopy skills, at my DZ they still do, which 1. Not all DZ's do that. That is really unfortunate and one of the reasons why I love my DZ, I always know someone is watching and waiting to tell my all the things I did right as well as wrong, and how to do it better. Quote2. You are female. Yes, I am a female and understand that may be some of the reason I get more attention than some of my male counterparts, that is a reality I have been aware of all my life. But I do see many male students getting extra advice on canopy skills and other aspects of their jumps after they have been cleared for solo. QuoteQuoteI may be naive but I have to believe that no instructor would clear a student for solo, unless they felt that student has a good grasp and understanding of all aspects of the skydive. Grasp and understanding yes...But how much understanding and how much of a grasp? People with 1,000's of jumps still get coaching. I have a good "grasp and understanding" of freefall, but I still go to the wind tunnel. I do not disagree that even people with thousands of jumps still have things to learn, but the original subject was regarding students, not skydivers with thousands of jumps. QuoteThe simple fact is the more instruction you get the better you will be...If I go do 15 coaching dives with you, you will get more than if I just did 5. I agree, but most coaching dives focus mainly on freefall skills, at least the ones I have done, which focused mainly on freefall skills. QuoteQuoteAgain, may sound naive, but how does someone with 600 jumps not know how to pack, unless they have still not obtained their A license, isn't that one of the requirements, must have completely packed a rig with no assistance? Its called pencil whipping....It happens. I can name four people right now (all with around 600 jumps) that can't pack for themselves, just at Zhills. That is sad. I would think that those people would want to know how to pack and would have sought out someone to teach them by now. 600 jumps x $5 a pack job, $3000, I personally would think of that as more money I could have put towards more jumps. Melissa "May the best of your past be the worst of your future" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vertifly 0 #70 February 8, 2004 Seriously, This sport is about sooooo much more than being knowledgable about saving your own life. But, if you are VERY afraid to die, you better (1) either - use the sport to recognize that life is better to live rather than being afraid of everything that will kill you or (2) not jump anymore. That is what skydivers are all about. This is why we enjoy each others' company so much. And it is this common denominator that allows us to enjoy everything our sport has to offer. Not just jumping with friends, but hanging out and gettin freaky after sunset. Now think about it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites debdayz 0 #71 February 8, 2004 all the other activites you mentioned is statistically more fatile than skydiving..look up the %Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #72 February 8, 2004 QuoteI do not disagree that even people with thousands of jumps still have things to learn, but the original subject was regarding students, not skydivers with thousands of jumps. And there are diffent levels of understanding and grasp even with two students that went through the same program..... Simple fact...When SL was the top teaching method...we didn't need a coaches program. More people knew how to spot, and more people knew how to pack. QuoteI agree, but most coaching dives focus mainly on freefall skills, at least the ones I have done, which focused mainly on freefall skills. Then maybe your program is missing out of something...today more skydivers get killed per year under a good main canopy than die not getting that last point. From a purley saftey aspect...canopy control is more important than turrning points....But thats not cool. Just stuff to think about."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites luckky 0 #73 February 9, 2004 ***both are good ways to get started in skydiving,,AFF cost more in dollars in my opion..and really i think depends on the person on which way they go about it,,some can handle all the info needed in AFF and some can't,but all in all ends up the same,guess just depends on how deep ur pocket is in getting startedIf there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant liv2luv luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1 lucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites luckky 0 #74 February 9, 2004 kudos,,tONTOIf there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant liv2luv luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1 lucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
debdayz 0 #71 February 8, 2004 all the other activites you mentioned is statistically more fatile than skydiving..look up the %Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 10 #72 February 8, 2004 QuoteI do not disagree that even people with thousands of jumps still have things to learn, but the original subject was regarding students, not skydivers with thousands of jumps. And there are diffent levels of understanding and grasp even with two students that went through the same program..... Simple fact...When SL was the top teaching method...we didn't need a coaches program. More people knew how to spot, and more people knew how to pack. QuoteI agree, but most coaching dives focus mainly on freefall skills, at least the ones I have done, which focused mainly on freefall skills. Then maybe your program is missing out of something...today more skydivers get killed per year under a good main canopy than die not getting that last point. From a purley saftey aspect...canopy control is more important than turrning points....But thats not cool. Just stuff to think about."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites luckky 0 #73 February 9, 2004 ***both are good ways to get started in skydiving,,AFF cost more in dollars in my opion..and really i think depends on the person on which way they go about it,,some can handle all the info needed in AFF and some can't,but all in all ends up the same,guess just depends on how deep ur pocket is in getting startedIf there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant liv2luv luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1 lucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites luckky 0 #74 February 9, 2004 kudos,,tONTOIf there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant liv2luv luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1 lucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 3 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Ron 10 #72 February 8, 2004 QuoteI do not disagree that even people with thousands of jumps still have things to learn, but the original subject was regarding students, not skydivers with thousands of jumps. And there are diffent levels of understanding and grasp even with two students that went through the same program..... Simple fact...When SL was the top teaching method...we didn't need a coaches program. More people knew how to spot, and more people knew how to pack. QuoteI agree, but most coaching dives focus mainly on freefall skills, at least the ones I have done, which focused mainly on freefall skills. Then maybe your program is missing out of something...today more skydivers get killed per year under a good main canopy than die not getting that last point. From a purley saftey aspect...canopy control is more important than turrning points....But thats not cool. Just stuff to think about."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luckky 0 #73 February 9, 2004 ***both are good ways to get started in skydiving,,AFF cost more in dollars in my opion..and really i think depends on the person on which way they go about it,,some can handle all the info needed in AFF and some can't,but all in all ends up the same,guess just depends on how deep ur pocket is in getting startedIf there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant liv2luv luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1 lucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
luckky 0 #74 February 9, 2004 kudos,,tONTOIf there are no trials in life,how will u know what is really imprtortant liv2luv luv2liv,,,SUMMOOO 1 lucky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
