meltdown 0 #1 December 15, 2003 I was just curious what is an appropriate wingloading for a jumper with 28 jumps. I weigh 160 out the door. I've been jumping a Spectre 170 recently with pretty accurate stand up landings, and I am comfortable running out landings when necessary. I was thinking about trying my wife's Sabre 150 after another 10-20 jumps on the 170. Is this too much for someone with my experience? Thanks in advance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 December 15, 2003 For a lot of people a 1.1:1 wingloading this early on in their jumping careers isn't too much for them, BUT, that's not everyone. Here's who you ask, the instructors and/or S&TAs on your DZ, they'll help you make a decision with impartial evaluation on your canopy skills.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #3 December 15, 2003 definitely ask your instructors/S-T A and not anybody on dropzone.com --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #4 December 15, 2003 >I was just curious what is an appropriate wingloading for a jumper > with 28 jumps. I weigh 160 out the door. I've been jumping a > Spectre 170 recently with pretty accurate stand up landings, and I > am comfortable running out landings when necessary. It sounds like you are in pretty good shape. You're at a loading where the canopy is starting to respond like a real wing, so you're seeing 'real' canopy performance. You've learned the basics of flying that canopy; now it's time to learn how to _really_ fly it. Canopy coaching is the best way to do this, but it's also possible to learn on your own. Flat turns should be the first thing you practice, followed by flare turns, rear riser landings, crosswind landings and front-riser approaches. For more details check out the "downsizing checklist" thread. >I was thinking about trying my wife's Sabre 150 after another 10-20 >jumps on the 170. Is this too much for someone with my > experience? It depends on your skill level. Again, check out that downsizing checklist. Once you can do all those things on the 170 you're probably ready to downsize. Just don't make the mistake that 40 landings without injury under the 170 means that you have really learned how to fly it; there are many survival tricks that are a _lot_ easier to learn on a larger canopy, and really have to be mastered there before you start jumping the smaller one. Often when people downsize quickly they think "Gee, I better be really careful on this thing!" and thus they never push the canopy and learn how to fly it well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #5 December 15, 2003 Billvon's checklist is here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=47 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #6 December 15, 2003 What's the rush to downsize? Spectre170 not fun enough for ya? Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meltdown 0 #7 December 15, 2003 No hurry. I love the 170. Was just wondering when might be a good time to try the 150 (since it's sitting here and all), and if there we some kind of accepted guidelines to help determine that. Believe me, I'm not in a hurry to go break something. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzlite 0 #8 December 16, 2003 Something tyou might want to keep in mind; Not only will you be downsizing, but you will be going from a 7 cell to a 9. (See '7cell vs 9cell' in; Gear & Rigging) Lu7ck' D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #9 December 16, 2003 I stuck with an F111 canopy loaded at around .85 until I had over 100 jumps (just recently got my sabre2 loaded at just over 1.0). My old canopy was slow, but it was ALWAYS fun for me. Couldn't dive like my sabre2 does now, but it could still spiral and pull some Gs. But it always kept me out of trouble, and was simple and easy to fly. I really wasn't planning to downsize until I demoed a sabre2 (actually demoed a javelin that had a sabre2 in it), and learned that I'm a fan of ZP. But things are different under the sabre2, and I'm glad I didn't try switching earlier. A couple spirals over my "playground" can quickly put me lower than I want for my pattern. Just need to plan farther ahead because it moves faster forward and down. Getting back from long spots was a lot easier under my old canopy too. But any time I need to move into the wind, the new canopy kicks some serious ass. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kyros1 0 #10 December 16, 2003 I would also suggest you to attend a canopy school Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meltdown 0 #11 December 16, 2003 Thanks everyone for the tips. I will go down Bill's checklist and look into a canopy school before I try that smaller canopy. Thanks again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #12 December 16, 2003 Quote "Gee, I better be really careful on this thing!" I think that about flying my canopy on every jump without exception. I think the same about flying my airplane. I can't imagine not thinking that about flying anything, given that I'm not a bird.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites meltdown 0 #13 December 16, 2003 *** I think that about flying my canopy on every jump without exception. I think the same about flying my airplane. I can't imagine not thinking that about flying anything, given that I'm not a bird. ________________________________________ I wonder if birds are thinking that when they walk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,990 #14 December 16, 2003 >I think that about flying my canopy on every jump without exception. > I think the same about flying my airplane. I can't imagine not > thinking that about flying anything, given that I'm not a bird. Caution is a good thing, but if you are so worried about landing your airplane that you're afraid to touch the throttle at all, for fear of making an excessive power change and either stalling of overflying the field, something's wrong. Similarly, if someone is so worried about landing their canopy that they have rules like "don't touch the toggles below 100 feet except to flare!" something's wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,026 #15 December 16, 2003 Quote>I think that about flying my canopy on every jump without exception. > I think the same about flying my airplane. I can't imagine not > thinking that about flying anything, given that I'm not a bird. Caution is a good thing, but if you are so worried about landing your airplane that you're afraid to touch the throttle at all, for fear of making an excessive power change and either stalling of overflying the field, something's wrong. Similarly, if someone is so worried about landing their canopy that they have rules like "don't touch the toggles below 100 feet except to flare!" something's wrong. I didn't say I was paralysed with fear. I am consciously careful:- paying full attention to what I'm doing, what the conditions are, and taking nothing for granted, if you will. I try to be 30 seconds ahead of the plane (or jump), not 10 seconds behind it. I've been flying since 1964 without injury or incident. So, thus far, it's worked for me. Complacency kills.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
kallend 2,026 #12 December 16, 2003 Quote "Gee, I better be really careful on this thing!" I think that about flying my canopy on every jump without exception. I think the same about flying my airplane. I can't imagine not thinking that about flying anything, given that I'm not a bird.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
meltdown 0 #13 December 16, 2003 *** I think that about flying my canopy on every jump without exception. I think the same about flying my airplane. I can't imagine not thinking that about flying anything, given that I'm not a bird. ________________________________________ I wonder if birds are thinking that when they walk. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,990 #14 December 16, 2003 >I think that about flying my canopy on every jump without exception. > I think the same about flying my airplane. I can't imagine not > thinking that about flying anything, given that I'm not a bird. Caution is a good thing, but if you are so worried about landing your airplane that you're afraid to touch the throttle at all, for fear of making an excessive power change and either stalling of overflying the field, something's wrong. Similarly, if someone is so worried about landing their canopy that they have rules like "don't touch the toggles below 100 feet except to flare!" something's wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,026 #15 December 16, 2003 Quote>I think that about flying my canopy on every jump without exception. > I think the same about flying my airplane. I can't imagine not > thinking that about flying anything, given that I'm not a bird. Caution is a good thing, but if you are so worried about landing your airplane that you're afraid to touch the throttle at all, for fear of making an excessive power change and either stalling of overflying the field, something's wrong. Similarly, if someone is so worried about landing their canopy that they have rules like "don't touch the toggles below 100 feet except to flare!" something's wrong. I didn't say I was paralysed with fear. I am consciously careful:- paying full attention to what I'm doing, what the conditions are, and taking nothing for granted, if you will. I try to be 30 seconds ahead of the plane (or jump), not 10 seconds behind it. I've been flying since 1964 without injury or incident. So, thus far, it's worked for me. Complacency kills.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
