Incidents and when to report them?

[PhreeZone 20]

I'm wondering what are the conditions that would make some one report an accident or injury in the Incidents fourm here? I've had people tell me they will never report an incident since it will only embarass the injured jumper when they recover, and I've had others tell me that they will report anything above a certian level of injury, still another group I've talked with said anything unsafe or anything that a lesson can be learned from will post about it.

Would you post an incident if the jumper asked for it not to be posted?

Would you post an incident if it was a close personal friend?

Would you ever try to avoid posting or surpress postings about an incident?

What are your criteria to make an incident/safety post?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Vallerina 2]

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Would you post an incident if it was a close personal friend?

I would definitely make sure to post it if it was a close, personal friend. I'd rather be the one to post information about someone I like than have a stranger post about it.

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Would you ever try to avoid posting or surpress postings about an incident?

Never say never, right? If there were legal concerns associated with it, I would avoid posting about it until the legalities were taken care of. I can't see many other situations where I would try to suppress information that others can learn from. Even if the lesson is the same one told over and over again, it may help to drive in the point that this can happen to you.

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Would you post an incident if the jumper asked for it not to be posted?

I would post the incident, but I would leave out details that may be embarrassing and have nothing to do with the incident itself (ie, Jane's response time was worse because of her excessive tiredness. Her tiredness was due to her being on her period. I would not post about her being on her period, even though I wouldn't find that embarrassing. Does that make sense?)

There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

[Ron 10]

Why hide it? This is a very small sport we are in. We find out soon enough.

I would rather get the info out as soon as possible with the accurate info..Than wait, and then get a second or third hand report.

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Would you post an incident if the jumper asked for it not to be posted?

Yes, why hide it...We all screw up, let someone learn. Even if it just reinforces the already known.

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Would you post an incident if it was a close personal friend?

Yep I would rather post it, than have someone who does not know the whole story post it.

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Would you ever try to avoid posting or surpress postings about an incident?

Nope, that would be fucking stupid. Why say anything at all if you are gonna lie or hide stuff?

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What are your criteria to make an incident/safety post?

Was it dangerous? Did it hurt someone?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[quade 4]

I believe it depends on the level of "incident" we're talking about. A few years back the U.S. skydiving industry was almost required by law to adopt certain standards in the classification and reporting of injuries. This is one effort in which I think the USPA was wrong to fight. The USPA tracks fatalities and other major injuries, but the emphasis in reportage is mainly fatalities and I think most people in the sport know there's a lot more to it than that. The USPA seems to routinely have to beg for reports of anything less than a fatality.

With regards to reporting fatalities on dz.com, anything that has already been posted in the mainstream news should probably be posted here for a couple of reasons. I think fairly important among them is an attempt to try to get the facts somewhat straight, not really out in "public" but within the skydiving community.

USPA Group Member drop zones are required to report fatalities to the USPA, however, at times I believe some have not. Also, non-group member drop zones are not required by anyone to report anything. Sometimes the -only- way the skydiving community hears about fatalities at a non-group member drop zone is through the mainstream press.

Names should almost never be posted until you are certain the family knows or they've been published in the mainstream press.

If the FARs and BSRs are written in blood, if we are to learn from our mistakes and all become safer, then facts are more important than emotions.

If you are being pressured to not report a fatality or serious injury, then think about who is asking you and why you're being asked this. If the reason has anything to do with loss of business, then it's just simply wrong.

This is not to say you should contact the mainstream news yourself. In fact, please, unless you have experience in dealing with them on a professional level you should probably never speak with them -- ever. If the media contacts you, direct them to the drop zone spokesperson. At some drop zones this might be the DZO and at others an S&TA or drop zone manager.

As for minor injuries (a simple break or twisted ankle) if you want to talk about it yourself, ok, fine, but these things happen -all- the time and if the person is going to be fine in 6 to 8 weeks it's really not usually of any interest or consequence to anyone and all it does is raise the noise floor.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[betzilla 56]

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Would you post an incident if the jumper asked for it not to be posted?

definitely not.

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Would you post an incident if it was a close personal friend?

Although I might like to see that correct information was posted (if I knew the story), I would probably have trouble putting it all together well, if it was a close friend. I followed closely the threads relating to a friend's death this season, but I tried to avoid posting if my emotions were getting fired up.

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Would you ever try to avoid posting or surpress postings about an incident?

I have avoided posting about them, when I've been to close to the subject, didn't know anything about the incident, or just didn't have anything nice to say.

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What are your criteria to make an incident/safety post?

My personal feeling is that the Incidents Forum should be for fatalities and serious injuries. Most other "incidents," like malfunctions and off site landings, can be covered in other forums.

[ZoneRat 0]

In the case of a friends non-fatal incident, I would ask permission from the injured jumper before I posted... or wait until he/ she was able to post it themselves.

Quite simply, it's not MY story to tell. It's theirs. Theirs to tell if and when they so choose.

If someone decided to post something about ME without MY permission, I'd beat them with my crutch the second they got in range... (The last thing I'd want to deal with during recovery is dealing with a bunch (albeit a smallish bunch) of Armchair Incident Nazi's...)

To directly answer your questions:
1. I'd Never post without the jumpers permission. Ever.
2. I would probably ONLY post about a good friend. Assuming the story had value.
3. I would avoid posting if it felt wrong to post it.
4. I would only post something if it contained info that the average DZ.commer hasn't seen a million times before.

Would I post about my own incident? Yes. But probably not in the incidents forum. I'd wait and post it as a cautionary reply somewhere else when I got the chance... and I have... I've found you don't tend to catch a rash of shit that way, and the info still gets out there.

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

[wmw999 2,459]

I've determined from current experience that I'm perfectly willing to post definite facts, and add speculation and thoughts that're my own about generalities of the incident.

I wouldn't post "I heard X about his condition" types of stuff; sometimes even when the doctor says it, it can be pretty speculative.

Speculation about someone's condition probably won't help the accident analysis and preventing future repetitions, and to me that's the important part of Incidents.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Jessica 0]

I would have been irritated if someone had posted about my broken ass without gathering the facts from me, since CLEARLY I was going to recover enough to be able to post the accurate information myself. The information was simply not so urgent to other jumpers that it needed to be posted right away.

When I did heal enough to sit at a computer, posting my own incident was embarassing and humbling, but I think it's important that I did it. I think letting others learn from your mistakes is part of the responsibility of this sport.

Skydiving is for cool people only

[PhreeZone 20]

Here is a twist, what if the injuried party does not post to Dropzone.com? Is it still acceptible to not post the info if they don't want people to know about their injuries?

Basically what I'm wondering is if an S&TA has to fill out the paperwork for the injury and its going to be published in Parachutist already, should as many details as possible be posted if there is a lesson that can be learned or just leave it as a blurb in Parachutist?

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[ZoneRat 0]

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Here is a twist, what if the injuried party does not post to Dropzone.com? Is it still acceptible to not post the info if they don't want people to know about their injuries?
To me? No. I personally wouldn't post. Others should do what they think is best, though.

Basically what I'm wondering is if an S&TA has to fill out the paperwork for the injury and its going to be published in Parachutist already, should as many details as possible be posted if there is a lesson that can be learned or just leave it as a blurb in Parachutist?
To me? Same thing. It's not my story to tell. Publishing in Parachutist is not the same thing as a high profile public forum. If they weren't a DZ.commer they soon would be...

I just don't feel comfortable posting someone's incident story without their permission.
Other's can do what they want, but to me, it just seems like bad form.

I'd be curious to see what others thought about this...

“There are more things in Heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophies.”

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