cruzlite 0 #1 November 15, 2003 http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/2638865/detail.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kai2k1 0 #2 November 15, 2003 I think this should have been posted in the incidents forum. There's no truer sense of flying than sky diving," Scott Cowan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzlite 0 #3 November 16, 2003 Rick; My original intention was to post in "Incidents" forum, however guidelines (see attachment) direct that 'small' incidents be posted in "safety & training". Since the article refers to injuries as "slight", I put it here. Perhaps a moderator could comment..?... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,028 #4 November 16, 2003 It's more appropriate here, but it wouldn't be unwelcome in Incidents. Incidents is intended for discussion of serious or unusual accidents that have educational value. A cutaway due to a lineover doesn't really belong in Incidents, but an unusual canopy problem (like a collision, wrap, and subsequent cutaways) might be appropriate even if no serious injuries result. It's a judgement call, and so far people have been pretty good about posting only serious or unusual incidents. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DutchSkyCam 0 #5 November 16, 2003 Quotepracticing On a demo??? OK, I understand it's a newspaper article... Was there public in the stadium? What is 'high winds'? Two out of four is a good score... :-( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzlite 0 #6 November 16, 2003 Dutch, Conditions at 2:30 pm were; overcast, winds 23 mph & gusting. No public present. d Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DutchSkyCam 0 #7 November 16, 2003 OK, sorry, thougth there was public in the stadium. They have to decide for themselves if they want to do a stadium jump in 20+ gusting winds... Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKYWHUFFO 1 #8 November 17, 2003 WASN'T this the same group (green Beret from ft bragg) the was trying to jump into the Nascar race in really high winds and hit everywhere and everything except where they should have. If so somebody needs to buy them a wind indicator and take them through the basics again on how jumping in high winds is bad! HA! Blues! D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Conquest150 0 #9 November 18, 2003 NO actually this is not the same group that jumped into the rockingham nascar race. that would be the usasoc black daggers that did that and they are a seperate team from the green berets Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SKYWHUFFO 1 #10 November 19, 2003 OK, so we have two teams from the green bret's now that can't read a wind indicator?!!! Do these guys sleep through the basic course? Sounds to me like they need to be trained a little better (bring back Skymonkeyone)or make them understand that they may be bullet proof and invencible to the wind, but a canopy is not. I am not bagging on the Green Bret's so don't hunt me down HA! I just think it sounds like these guys should use more common sense when demo jumping. When these guys have a demo go wrong like Rockingham or in KC it really makes the whole skydiving community look bad. The last two demos posted that there were problems with were these guys, some of the best trained jumpers? Once again I am not bagging on the Bret's so please don't take it that way, my point is Demo Jumping is a great way to introduce whuffos to the sport and if it's a bad experience it looks bad on the whole sport. If its Borderline don't jump, there will be other demos to wow the whuffos! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #11 November 21, 2003 Quotemy point is Demo Jumping is a great way to introduce whuffos to the sport and if it's a bad experience it looks bad on the whole sport. If its Borderline don't jump, there will be other demos to wow the whuffos! *** Truer words were never spoken... BUT To their credit, at least they had the foresight to do a practice jump on the day prior. I'm a demo jumper as well, and as standard procedure we like to set up, (or try to) a prior practice leap, into any stadium as close to actual demo time as practical. With the hope the wind variables will be somewhat similar to the actual demo. Stadium jumps are without doubt some of the most challenging demos there are. The wind always squirrels you, and because of the nature of the beast... once committed, you usually have limited "outs". Its unfortunate that these Demo team members, fellow skydivers all... were injured. My hat is off to them for the professional standards they maintain in taking the practice jump to assess the safety of an actual demo attempt. Can you imagine the negative press that may have followed, should some unfortunate spectator been injured sitting in those areas? A couple of years ago due to scheduling conflicts, I had to pass on a high profile flag jump into Giants Stadium for the grand opening. I recommended it onto a west coast friend and top US demo jumper. Due to circumstances well beyond his control, he didn't make it into the stadium and landed safely, in a crowed parking area. No damage...No injuries. The promoter, whom I've worked with often in the past, sent me a video and a nasty letter berating my recommendation. After viewing the video, (I had already gotten the performer side of the story) I flew out and spoke with this promoter personally... Strongly conveying the point, no pre jump was allowed as requested... And several variables he promised to control were not... i.e. landing area, crowd control. Under the circumstances, the absolute best possible outcome was achieved! No Damage...No Injuries! I explained that Parachute Demonstrations are 'real time' and not Hollywood, where you can 'cut' go back and change some aspect that's not working. Instead of 'giving it a try' my friend did what true Professional Parachute Demonstration jumpers do... If there is the SLIGHTEST chance of someone being injured... Take the out. ...It's easy to armchair quarterback the actions and results of another jumper. But until you walk the walk... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wrightskyguy 1 #12 November 22, 2003 ...It's easy to armchair quarterback the actions and results of another jumper. But until you walk the walk... QuoteYup! Hey airtwardo, our team is doing a night demo into the Jaguars vs Buccaneers game next week. Can't wait. Jump nice John Wright John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #13 November 22, 2003 Quote ...It's easy to armchair quarterback the actions and results of another jumper. But until you walk the walk... QuoteYup! Hey airtwardo, our team is doing a night demo into the Jaguars vs Buccaneers game next week. Can't wait. Jump nice John Wright *** John, COOL! Get some PICs and post'em, Have fun and be safe. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #14 November 24, 2003 A friend of mine was on the subject jump and called me a couple of days after the event. So the following is second hand info from from of the jumpers (no newspaer/radio) so take it for what it's worth. The jumpers had a wind meter and the winds never exceeded 20 mph. the location of the reading was on top of the stadium. A WDI was used but the spotter took the spot to long. I may be wrong but He may have been one of the injured. The person who landed in the seats in the stadium "knew he was coming up short and should have landed in the parking lot outside the stadium" The person with the sprained/broken ankle was a bird colonel who landed on the sidelines. The jumper at the bottom of the stack landed on the 50 yard line in spite of the long spot. He saw the spot was long on exit and ran it in. The fourth jumper also had a uneventful landing in the turf. The winds below the top of the inside of the stadium were 180 degree's off the windline. All jumpers recieved autographed parts of the seats that were replaced due to unforseen circumstances related to the jump. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 235 #15 November 24, 2003 Is smoke on the ground ever used in a demo? This seems like something that could help the jumpers to forsee the 3D aspects inside of the stadium."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #16 November 25, 2003 Hope they're all going to be okay! From your description... Were they flying a stack into the stadium? If so how big? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #17 November 25, 2003 QuoteIs smoke on the ground ever used in a demo? This seems like something that could help the jumpers to forsee the 3D aspects inside of the stadium. *** If you mean having a ground crew person pop a smoke on the field prior to your landing, my experience is, Usually not... If you were to actually see what the winds were doing you'd never go into one via parachute! Many times there will be some kind of pyrotechnics display on the field that will give you a read on the landing conditions... You can also read the Flags that many stadiums fly at various parts of the park, but that too can be deceiving... as stated above the winds within, were 180 degrees from the WDI. Most event organizers and promoters that would be affiliated with a demo into a venue such as a large stadium, require an MSDS on the smoke to be utilized. Next to impossible to obtain. It's also a bit smelly and can 'stain' the turf, Which doesn't put you in good favor with the guys writing the check. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #18 November 25, 2003 QuoteHope they're all going to be okay! From your description... Were they flying a stack into the stadium? If so how big? Sorry me bad the jumpers were "stacking their opening altitudes" opening at different altitude's so everyone could have a clean shot at the 50 yard line. Compared to the injuries we're hearing about these days one bad nose that took out a few empty seats, and a injured ankle isn't to bad. The seats are toast. Beware second hand info! R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cruzlite 0 #19 November 25, 2003 Note: Conditions (23mph & gusting) were taken from weather.com D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. 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wrightskyguy 1 #12 November 22, 2003 ...It's easy to armchair quarterback the actions and results of another jumper. But until you walk the walk... QuoteYup! Hey airtwardo, our team is doing a night demo into the Jaguars vs Buccaneers game next week. Can't wait. Jump nice John Wright John Wright World's most beloved skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #13 November 22, 2003 Quote ...It's easy to armchair quarterback the actions and results of another jumper. But until you walk the walk... QuoteYup! Hey airtwardo, our team is doing a night demo into the Jaguars vs Buccaneers game next week. Can't wait. Jump nice John Wright *** John, COOL! Get some PICs and post'em, Have fun and be safe. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #14 November 24, 2003 A friend of mine was on the subject jump and called me a couple of days after the event. So the following is second hand info from from of the jumpers (no newspaer/radio) so take it for what it's worth. The jumpers had a wind meter and the winds never exceeded 20 mph. the location of the reading was on top of the stadium. A WDI was used but the spotter took the spot to long. I may be wrong but He may have been one of the injured. The person who landed in the seats in the stadium "knew he was coming up short and should have landed in the parking lot outside the stadium" The person with the sprained/broken ankle was a bird colonel who landed on the sidelines. The jumper at the bottom of the stack landed on the 50 yard line in spite of the long spot. He saw the spot was long on exit and ran it in. The fourth jumper also had a uneventful landing in the turf. The winds below the top of the inside of the stadium were 180 degree's off the windline. All jumpers recieved autographed parts of the seats that were replaced due to unforseen circumstances related to the jump. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 235 #15 November 24, 2003 Is smoke on the ground ever used in a demo? This seems like something that could help the jumpers to forsee the 3D aspects inside of the stadium."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #16 November 25, 2003 Hope they're all going to be okay! From your description... Were they flying a stack into the stadium? If so how big? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #17 November 25, 2003 QuoteIs smoke on the ground ever used in a demo? This seems like something that could help the jumpers to forsee the 3D aspects inside of the stadium. *** If you mean having a ground crew person pop a smoke on the field prior to your landing, my experience is, Usually not... If you were to actually see what the winds were doing you'd never go into one via parachute! Many times there will be some kind of pyrotechnics display on the field that will give you a read on the landing conditions... You can also read the Flags that many stadiums fly at various parts of the park, but that too can be deceiving... as stated above the winds within, were 180 degrees from the WDI. Most event organizers and promoters that would be affiliated with a demo into a venue such as a large stadium, require an MSDS on the smoke to be utilized. Next to impossible to obtain. It's also a bit smelly and can 'stain' the turf, Which doesn't put you in good favor with the guys writing the check. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #18 November 25, 2003 QuoteHope they're all going to be okay! From your description... Were they flying a stack into the stadium? If so how big? Sorry me bad the jumpers were "stacking their opening altitudes" opening at different altitude's so everyone could have a clean shot at the 50 yard line. Compared to the injuries we're hearing about these days one bad nose that took out a few empty seats, and a injured ankle isn't to bad. The seats are toast. Beware second hand info! R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites cruzlite 0 #19 November 25, 2003 Note: Conditions (23mph & gusting) were taken from weather.com D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
airtwardo 7 #13 November 22, 2003 Quote ...It's easy to armchair quarterback the actions and results of another jumper. But until you walk the walk... QuoteYup! Hey airtwardo, our team is doing a night demo into the Jaguars vs Buccaneers game next week. Can't wait. Jump nice John Wright *** John, COOL! Get some PICs and post'em, Have fun and be safe. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #14 November 24, 2003 A friend of mine was on the subject jump and called me a couple of days after the event. So the following is second hand info from from of the jumpers (no newspaer/radio) so take it for what it's worth. The jumpers had a wind meter and the winds never exceeded 20 mph. the location of the reading was on top of the stadium. A WDI was used but the spotter took the spot to long. I may be wrong but He may have been one of the injured. The person who landed in the seats in the stadium "knew he was coming up short and should have landed in the parking lot outside the stadium" The person with the sprained/broken ankle was a bird colonel who landed on the sidelines. The jumper at the bottom of the stack landed on the 50 yard line in spite of the long spot. He saw the spot was long on exit and ran it in. The fourth jumper also had a uneventful landing in the turf. The winds below the top of the inside of the stadium were 180 degree's off the windline. All jumpers recieved autographed parts of the seats that were replaced due to unforseen circumstances related to the jump. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJL 235 #15 November 24, 2003 Is smoke on the ground ever used in a demo? This seems like something that could help the jumpers to forsee the 3D aspects inside of the stadium."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #16 November 25, 2003 Hope they're all going to be okay! From your description... Were they flying a stack into the stadium? If so how big? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #17 November 25, 2003 QuoteIs smoke on the ground ever used in a demo? This seems like something that could help the jumpers to forsee the 3D aspects inside of the stadium. *** If you mean having a ground crew person pop a smoke on the field prior to your landing, my experience is, Usually not... If you were to actually see what the winds were doing you'd never go into one via parachute! Many times there will be some kind of pyrotechnics display on the field that will give you a read on the landing conditions... You can also read the Flags that many stadiums fly at various parts of the park, but that too can be deceiving... as stated above the winds within, were 180 degrees from the WDI. Most event organizers and promoters that would be affiliated with a demo into a venue such as a large stadium, require an MSDS on the smoke to be utilized. Next to impossible to obtain. It's also a bit smelly and can 'stain' the turf, Which doesn't put you in good favor with the guys writing the check. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #18 November 25, 2003 QuoteHope they're all going to be okay! From your description... Were they flying a stack into the stadium? If so how big? Sorry me bad the jumpers were "stacking their opening altitudes" opening at different altitude's so everyone could have a clean shot at the 50 yard line. Compared to the injuries we're hearing about these days one bad nose that took out a few empty seats, and a injured ankle isn't to bad. The seats are toast. Beware second hand info! R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #14 November 24, 2003 A friend of mine was on the subject jump and called me a couple of days after the event. So the following is second hand info from from of the jumpers (no newspaer/radio) so take it for what it's worth. The jumpers had a wind meter and the winds never exceeded 20 mph. the location of the reading was on top of the stadium. A WDI was used but the spotter took the spot to long. I may be wrong but He may have been one of the injured. The person who landed in the seats in the stadium "knew he was coming up short and should have landed in the parking lot outside the stadium" The person with the sprained/broken ankle was a bird colonel who landed on the sidelines. The jumper at the bottom of the stack landed on the 50 yard line in spite of the long spot. He saw the spot was long on exit and ran it in. The fourth jumper also had a uneventful landing in the turf. The winds below the top of the inside of the stadium were 180 degree's off the windline. All jumpers recieved autographed parts of the seats that were replaced due to unforseen circumstances related to the jump. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJL 235 #15 November 24, 2003 Is smoke on the ground ever used in a demo? This seems like something that could help the jumpers to forsee the 3D aspects inside of the stadium."I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #16 November 25, 2003 Hope they're all going to be okay! From your description... Were they flying a stack into the stadium? If so how big? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #17 November 25, 2003 QuoteIs smoke on the ground ever used in a demo? This seems like something that could help the jumpers to forsee the 3D aspects inside of the stadium. *** If you mean having a ground crew person pop a smoke on the field prior to your landing, my experience is, Usually not... If you were to actually see what the winds were doing you'd never go into one via parachute! Many times there will be some kind of pyrotechnics display on the field that will give you a read on the landing conditions... You can also read the Flags that many stadiums fly at various parts of the park, but that too can be deceiving... as stated above the winds within, were 180 degrees from the WDI. Most event organizers and promoters that would be affiliated with a demo into a venue such as a large stadium, require an MSDS on the smoke to be utilized. Next to impossible to obtain. It's also a bit smelly and can 'stain' the turf, Which doesn't put you in good favor with the guys writing the check. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #18 November 25, 2003 QuoteHope they're all going to be okay! From your description... Were they flying a stack into the stadium? If so how big? Sorry me bad the jumpers were "stacking their opening altitudes" opening at different altitude's so everyone could have a clean shot at the 50 yard line. Compared to the injuries we're hearing about these days one bad nose that took out a few empty seats, and a injured ankle isn't to bad. The seats are toast. Beware second hand info! R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cruzlite 0 #19 November 25, 2003 Note: Conditions (23mph & gusting) were taken from weather.com D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
