billvon 3,063 #26 October 31, 2003 >>Do we "like" this policy -- no. Not really. It's an invasion of privacy and >>against the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. >Not really. The 4th Ammendment protects us against unreasonable >searches, not all searches, by the government. Perhaps more to the point, you can simply refuse to allow them to search you - so your right to refuse searches you consider unreasonable is still protected. You won't be allowed on the plane, of course, but that's a different issue. There is no right to fly on commercial airlines. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #27 October 31, 2003 Quote Perhaps more to the point, you can simply refuse to allow them to search you - so your right to refuse searches you consider unreasonable is still protected. You won't be allowed on the plane, of course, but that's a different issue. There is no right to fly on commercial airlines. So, you're suggesting that a person not go to the airport at all? Or are you suggesting that a person go to the airport, with the intention of flying, refuse to submit to the inspection and that he would then be allowed to simply walk away? 'Cause, I'm thinking, if somebody refuses the search then that automatically makes them a suspect and therefore gives probable cause for the search. Also, I find it interesting that Article 24 of the Interm Iraqi Constitution gives them the "right to move", but you do not think that should apply to the U.S. population? In fact, we the people of the U.S. do have a "Right to Travel".quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sdgregory 0 #28 October 31, 2003 Why don't we just pay our DZ pilots to fly us where we want and we can jump right out over our destination! Think of it, no security checks, no baggage claim, no lost luggage (unless of course you choose to ship it via USPS before you leave. Yikes you see what THEY do to packages?). You just pack everything into a nice tight pack and carry military style. Or aim really really well. I can see it now, "Yeah Mom I will be there sometime between 4 and 4:15. Turn the 2-way on incase I miss the house and need a ride." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,063 #29 October 31, 2003 >Or are you suggesting that a person go to the airport, with the > intention of flying, refuse to submit to the inspection and that he > would then be allowed to simply walk away? Yes. Barring anything else they do. (i.e. if they say "I'll kill all of you if you touch me!" then I'd expect there to be a bigger stink.) But every airport I've been at has big signs saying your bags are subject to search if you want to fly, and if you leave when you see the sign, no one's going to arrest you. >In fact, we the people of the U.S. do have a "Right to Travel". From what you linked to: --------------------------------------- You don't have an explicitly stated constitutional right to travel within the country, but since you are not restricted from interstate travel, the 10th amendment says you have the right anyway. It could be reasonably argued that Article 2, Section 6, Clause 1, presumes the right to travel between states when it says that a citizen of one state shall have all the rights of a citizen of another state. Driver's license fees, state gas tax, license plate fees, registration fees, and any other auto tax imposed by the state are entirely constitutional under the U.S. Constitution, which basically says the State can do anything it wants to, as long as the Constitution does not expressly forbid it. Unless that state's state constitution forbids such a tax, it is legal. -------------------------------------- In other words they can put any restrictions they want upon your traveling, as long as the restrictions are not unconstitutional. This includes making driving illegal without a license, making walking in public illegal unless you're wearing clothing, and flying unless you're willing to be searched for weapons. Note that nothing is essentially different today compared to five years ago. If, five years ago, you went through an airport metal detector and it beeped, they could legally search you - and they would refuse you boarding if you refused the search. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #30 November 1, 2003 I'm still laughing over this post that this guy didn't know who Kate was! Doesn't he bother to read any skydiving related material? Heck, even if the reserve is in date and there is a seal on the reserve pin, they can still open it. Just because it's in date doesn't mean that no one put something in the reserve. I'm with what was already said, the guy was on a power trip. Many times I travel to Florida with my rig out of date, since my good friend is a rigger there and repacks for me. Does that make me look like I have something to hide?May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #31 November 1, 2003 Quote Quote Do we "like" this policy -- no. Not really. It's an invasion of privacy and against the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution of the United States. Not really. The 4th Ammendment protects us against unreasonable searches, not all searches, by the government. if the reserve is not sealed, this MIGHT be a sufficient reason to think there MIGHT be something hidden, no ??---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vonSanta 0 #32 November 3, 2003 Sure but if it's sealed but out of date, there's no logic to his thinking. Because it's out of date it's mroe likely that someone has hidden something in it and then resealed it? That person couldn't have done the same thing with a rig that was in date? The guys logic is flawed, I guess he just wanted to meet some skydivers and was really bored and was hoping for some "Shit, there I was" stories Santa Von GrossenArsch I only come in one flavour ohwaitthatcanbemisunderst Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lazyfrog 0 #33 November 3, 2003 yeah, well, going in an airplane with a parachute is VERY suspicious, haven't you seen all these movies with terrorist skydivers ??---------- Fumer tue, péter pue ------------- ourson #10, Mosquito Uno, CBT 579 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,106 #34 November 3, 2003 Quote The guys logic is flawed, I guess he just wanted to meet some skydivers and was really bored and was hoping for some "Shit, there I was" stories "It's the Government, it doesn't have to make sense."... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lee03 0 #35 November 4, 2003 This subject really gets my blood boiling! I say this, not only as a skydiver, but as a pilot as well! The TSA and the entire office of homeland security are organizations that are nothing more than designed to destroy your personal rights and freedoms! They are not about the security of this nation, they are about the crushing of personal rights and freedoms by a government that is completely out of control! Bunch of wannabe commnnist police state dictators! To HELL with them!-------- To put your life in danger from time to time ... breeds a saneness in dealing with day-to-day trivialities. --Nevil Shute, Slide Rule Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #36 November 13, 2003 ok. I'll bite. Who is Kate Cooper? Remember now, that the US isn't the whole world...-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 4 #37 November 13, 2003 Quote Who is Kate Cooper? Kate is actually known world-wide, but I can certainly understand why some folks outside of the US might not know her if their local skydiving converage doesn't include world-wide events. http://jumpforthecause.com/bios.htm#kate A bit dated. http://300way.com/people/captains.html 300-way info.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #38 November 13, 2003 Additional report from an unidentified female big way organzer ..... "More Ontairio TSA follies so, this time I decide to check, after running into little Napolean upstairs last week. Natch, I get called over for a bag check. Yes, it's the toy bag. "Sport Parachuting equipment" I answer. "It doesn't have one of those charges on the main 'chute does it?" "No", I answered honestly. "Because if it did, you wouldn't be able to take it aboard" then he added "I thought most people had those?" I answered, truthfully again, "I don't know anyone who has a charge on their main chute". He accepted that (sigh)...." Whatever you political opinion, I think many of the issues are caused by egos being inflated by a patch on an individuals shoulder, a cheap ass badge, and some sort of emotional need to feel important, NOT a concern for safety.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyangel2 2 #39 November 13, 2003 Quote ok. I'll bite. Who is Kate Cooper? Remember now, that the US isn't the whole world... Here's some more information on Kate. I can understand, not living in the U.S. that you wouldn't know who Kate is. Paul, thanks for starting without me, it took me some time to get back here. Kate Cooper May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 16 #40 November 13, 2003 *** Quote If this TSA guy was such a sh-- hot rigger, he should of opened it up, inspected it, and given Kate a nice repack right there in the airport. . Sounds like this guy ain't much of a rigger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
